ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Yusuf]

MiG 21 whipped F-16s. So a MiG 21++ should be a decent one with off course a lot to work on. Cannot get the moon at first go can we? What's important is to carry on the work and not leave it like last time as we did with the Marut.

 

[p2prada]

Tejas will achieve all that for FOC as well.

IAF is not interested in LCA Mk1. That is very clear from ACM's statements in the past as well as today.

The question is what is the point of this statement when IAF is getting MKI, MRCA, FGFA, upgrades of mig29 and mirage 2000 anyway for high end.

Exactly the point. You just made it. IAF is getting high end jets, state of the art. But in the end IAF will lose 20 pilots now and another 20 pilots later to the Mk1 with standards WAAAY below what the MRCA is providing.

Losing 40 pilots in 3 years is no joke, not to mention a base or 2.

The fact of matter is LCA is more capable than Mig21, which it was intended to replace.

Not the IOC jets. At Max G force of 6 the Mig-21 will be spinning circles around the LCA, not to mention it will get shot down by BVR anyway. The Bisons have a capable EW as well as BVR.

So why dont they place the order of 120 LCA straight away to replace Mig21 and even mig27 1 for 1. Thing is these guys dont care if younger pilots go to their death flying rusting metal frames.

I will agree with the older Migs. But the Bisons are more 4th gen than the Mk1. Not to mention the older Mig-21s are actually being replaced by MKIs and later MRCA in the future.

Even F-35 and Super Hornet (700 or so going to be inducted) are dud according to some people

That's depending on the importance of the jet. Those "some" people will be using these jets as their principle fighter, while we have MKI and FGFA as our principle jets. So, this is merely a point of view.

Why is hybrid Elta EL/M-2032 MMR not a good radar ???

I hardly doubt the specifications even match what the Mirage-2000 will be getting. What we have is not Elta's radar. We have our own MMR that uses Israel's radar processors. Our very first radar matching the RC-400 series, I don't think so.

R73 is perfectly capable system and it will have R77 as well ? Care to explain what is wrong with it ?

R-73 yes. R-77 not yet. That's for FOC.

Mayavi includes RWR, LWS, MAWS. Even MKI doesn't have LWS and MAWS

The MKI upgrade plan is much more comprehensive than the LCAs. MKI will have everything required even before the FOC LCA hits the production line. So, cannot compare. Also, the Mayawi suite is still not ready and will not be until after 2012.

What do you want, a Raptor within a month for a R & D budget in peanuts??

Nope. I want a Gripen for a R&D budget that is perfectly adequate for our needs.

I am not talking about the failure of the program. The program has delivered lesser than expected and the ACM is pointing out exactly that. LCA is not yet a 4th gen aircraft. The LCA Mk2 may very well be 4.5th gen or higher, but that's not the point either. The point is the ACMs words are being criticized for being out of line when he is the one in charge of protecting our country. When he speaks the truth, the messenger as well as the message is criticized simply because nobody wants to hear it. This is the same story as the Arjun. Calling for induction a product that is well below required standards and then criticizing the people who rejected the product and comparing them to our political schemers.

 

[Welcome]

IOC for Tejas is really a great achievement for ADA. but still lca has lot of problem, i listen in the speech of Air force chief " it still not a forth generation aircraft." As i know indian airforce accepting it bcoz they have lot of pressure to accept it. LCA cost is similar to Mig-30 but performance is 50% of Mig-30. So ADA scientist need to consider on LCA Mk-II.

 

[p2prada]

I wont even mind if LCA-MK1 is inducted in high numbers i.e. 250-300 planes, provided Kaveri engine variant is developed for it and MMRCA is scrapped altogether. We have very good heavy capability in MKI and FGFA production will start in 2020.

That's the problem. See even I can make a wish list and say let's do it. For one, we don't even have the proven capability to manufacture such a large number of fighters. Secondly, Kaveri is 5 years away from any kind of tests. Thirdly, the MRCA is much more important to us than the FGFA program. Yes. That's right. The MRCA is way more important to us than the FGFA. The FGFA is a paper plane, nothing on it is reliable. The MRCA fighters are all flying right now and are all awesome killers, including Gripen. And we need them even more so. The LCA is just a filler until the AMCA comes in to the picture.

There are times we have to get out of the rabbit hole and look at things objectively. For some reason not many people do that.

 

[arya]

guys now we have to start our work on 5.5 gen plane witout wasting any single time

we need two thing on urgent base

agni 5

5.5 gen planes

party is over now and we have to work on the next chapter

 

[vijay jagannathan]

I say drop the LCA mark 1 and forget IOC LOC whatever. Use it as a tech demonstrator. Move seamlessly into mark 2. Atleast save time ---yes get it up and going in a years time. Man!!!! Do you want a layman say this to you? OK you have worked hard learnt from scratch sacrificed a lot faced sanctions budget went up 300% and GOT THE BACKING. but where is the product? AF will not and should not and MUST not wait for another 3 years for LCA mark 2. Its seriously jeopardising its ability.Maybe like Kaveri was delinked IAF must delink from the LCA and look the other way. Maybe the Navy can hang on.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I say drop the LCA mark 1 and forget IOC LOC whatever. Use it as a tech demonstrator. Move seamlessly into mark 2. Atleast save time ---yes get it up and going in a years time. Man!!!! Do you want a layman say this to you? OK you have worked hard learnt from scratch sacrificed a lot faced sanctions budget went up 300% and GOT THE BACKING. but where is the product? AF will not and should not and MUST not wait for another 3 years for LCA mark 2. Its seriously jeopardising its ability.Maybe like Kaveri was delinked IAF must delink from the LCA and look the other way. Maybe the Navy can hang on.

Can you explain whats wrong with the LCA MK-I? Also what will you do with the 20 odd F-404 engines that have been delivered?

 

[arya]

a million dollar question i want to ask

how mucht time we need to make mark2 lca

we should see the future we have all things not just time

 

[chex3009]

What about the HF designation? Wasn't it going to be announced on its IOC????

 

[arya]

Can you explain whats wrong with the LCA MK-I? Also what will you do with the 20 odd F-404 engines that have been delivered?

you have to uderstand his point he want to say now we have to look for the next we all know lca is working and a team can work on that

but now our main focus should be on the next version

i hope you know china has its 5 gen fighter planes and where are we now you know the answer

 

[vijay jagannathan]

Can you explain whats wrong with the LCA MK-I? Also what will you do with the 20 odd F-404 engines that have been delivered?

Perhaps you must ask whats not wrong with LCA mark 1? if you had inducted LCA mark 1 with full FOC in 1985 that would have been awesome, if you had it in 1990 it would have been a big thing then, if you had it in year 2000 it would have meant something----but what do you expect a 3+ generation plane that too 2 years away from FOC in 2010???? NOTHING!!!! gODLESS-kAFIR SERIOUSLY you are not being serious asking this question. You are not dealing with sudan and somalia. you have 2 nuclear powered neighbours wanting to decapitate us at any given sign of weakness.

What do you do with 20 F-404 engines?? do you want to induct toy planes in IAF becaUse you went and bought 20 odd engines? thats not a good enough reason. donate them to IIT,GTRE. sell them to scrap merchants or industries who will try to reverse engineer them.

Is this enough of an explanation?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

you have to uderstand his point he want to say now we have to look for the next we all know lca is working and a team can work on that

but now our main focus should be on the next version

i hope you know china has its 5 gen fighter planes and where are we now you know the answer

You make it sound like Tejas is bad? How is the worse than the competition in the region like J-10 or Thunder?

You must understand that this aircraft is better than the Mirage-2000 and so its worth having it as an front line fighter. For this cost you wont even get Migs these days.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Perhaps you must ask whats not wrong with LCA mark 1? if you had inducted LCA mark 1 with full FOC in 1985 that would have been awesome, if you had it in 1990 it would have been a big thing then, if you had it in year 2000 it would have meant something----but what do you expect a 3+ generation plane that too 2 years away from FOC in 2010???? NOTHING!!!! gODLESS-kAFIR SERIOUSLY you are not being serious asking this question. You are not dealing with sudan and somalia. you have 2 nuclear powered neighbours wanting to decapitate us at any given sign of weakness.

What do you do with 20 F-404 engines?? do you want to induct toy planes in IAF becaUse you went and bought 20 odd engines? thats not a good enough reason. donate them to IIT,GTRE. sell them to scrap merchants or industries who will try to reverse engineer them.

Is this enough of an explanation?

Can show any proof that the Tejas is an 3rd generation aircraft which means its all aluminum and has no digital or avionic advancements since 1980?

Also how is supposed to be inferior to the Gripen which is still touted as an next generation aircraft what is the difference in Avionics or flight envelope? Also how is this inferior technologically to Pakistan's JF-17? Please explain these logically with reports and points so i can understand.

 

[arya]

You make it sound like Tejas is bad? How is the worse than the competition in the region like J-10 or Thunder?

You must understand that this aircraft is better than the Mirage-2000 and so its worth having it as an front line fighter. For this cost you wont even get Migs these days.

buddy where i said lca is not good but yes i want best not good we have to work on next gen plane and the most important agni 5

its not party time till 5 gen figter plane and agni 5

i hope you get my point as simple we have to work hard

 

[Godless-Kafir]

buddy where i said lca is not good but yes i want best not good we have to work on next gen plane and the most important agni 5

its not party time till 5 gen figter plane and agni 5

i hope you get my point as simple we have to work hard

Obviously they are working on the MK-2, they have to finish the 20 F-404 engines which have arrived, We cant throw them away. After that they will add the more powerful and advanced F-414 engine and better avionics for the Mk-2, which will be better than the Gripen in terms of Thrust to Weight and Avionics.

Also once we reach 5th gen there will be the need to go to 6th gen so would you keep condemning the work you have done so far? Its an constant evolution without any full stop, as they said you have to run to stay where you are.

 

[warriorextreme]

with experience with LCA i think we should go for 50-50 JVs
technology denied is technology derived but time 1 year wasted in this is equal to 5 years of backlog

 

[Rahul Singh]

IAF Chief clarifies it is a fourth gen aircraft

By Frontier India | January 10th, 2011 |

The much awaited the India's own Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) 'Tejas', was handed over to the IAF by Defence minister, A K Antony. LCA tejas has cleared the Initial Operational Clearance. IAF will now be able to fly the aircraft under its own colors and it will contribute to Final Operational Clearance (FOC). The FOC is expected to be achieved by the end of 2012. IAF intends to deploy the aircraft at one of its bases in Bangalore. This will enable DRDO support for ironing out the "teething problems" associated with induction of a new aircraft. IAF has announced to form first LCA squadrons at its Sulur air base near Coimbatore in Tamil Nadu.

The day was not without controversy. IAF Chief was misunderstood as saying that it was not a Fourth Generation aircraft. Air Chief Marshal PV Naik later clarified that it was a fourth generation aircraft. He said that some systems and maneuvers have to be finalized leading to the FOC.

IAF plans to induct two squadrons in IOC mode by the middle of 2011. The IAF has already placed the orders for 40 LCAs in March 2005. The first 40 LCAs are powered by the American General Electric GE-F404 engines. The value of these 40 aircraft is estimated around Rs. 7,000 crore.

14 test pilots have flight tested LCA Tejas over the last 10 years. The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA)Tejas on 7 Jan 2011, had cleared its last hurdle before attaining the scheduled Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) with the aircraft's integrated flight control system receiving the necessary documentation from the certifying authorities. The Regional Centre for Military Airworthiness (RCMA) had handed over the certification for the LCA's integrated flight control system (IFCS). The FCS will enable aircraft perform 8 or 9 G's maneuvers.

The Regional Centre for Military Airworthiness (RCMA) handed over the certification for the LCA's integrated flight control system (IFCS) – the pilot-friendly flight controls.

IAF had announced plans for five LCA Tejas squadrons in the coming years. It means some 100 aircraft's will be producted with more powerful engine.

The IAF plans to ultimately have around 10 LCA Tejas squadrons to replace Russian MiG-21.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Shouldn't we end wetting pants talking what generation LCA belongs too? BTW is it that unknown to Indians that we don't know every fighter reaches its ASR only after FOC? Didn't ACM said "some systems and maneuvers have to be finalized leading to the FOC"? Are we that ignorant to not understand difference between IOC and FOC? Didn't even Eurofighter took full three years after introduction into service to qualify for full A2G role that too only with Paveways? What so especial if LCA takes two more years to FOC?

 

[vijay jagannathan]

Shouldn't we end wetting pants talking what generation LCA belongs too? BTW is it that unknown to Indians that we don't know every fighter reaches its ASR only after FOC? Didn't ACM said "some systems and maneuvers have to be finalized leading to the FOC"? Are we that ignorant to not understand difference between IOC and FOC? Didn't even Eurofighter took full three years after introduction into service to qualify for full A2G role that too only with Paveways? What so especial if LCA takes two more years to FOC?

It makes a lot of sense to concentrate manpower energy and money in going for mark 2. mark 1 is a tech demonstrator. IAF is not happy with it as it does not fulfil its needs and specifications. Its clear and final. and if people cannot digest this fact they can continue to live in a pseudo world. ACM's enthusiasm says it all.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

IAF Chief clarifies it is a fourth gen aircraft

By Frontier India | January 10th, 2011 |

The much awaited the India's own Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) 'Tejas', was handed over to the IAF by Defence minister, A K Antony. LCA tejas has cleared the Initial Operational Clearance. IAF will now be able to fly the aircraft under its own colors and it will contribute to Final Operational Clearance (FOC). The FOC is expected to be achieved by the end of 2012. IAF intends to deploy the aircraft at one of its bases in Bangalore. This will enable DRDO support for ironing out the "teething problems" associated with induction of a new aircraft. IAF has announced to form first LCA squadrons at its Sulur air base near Coimbatore in Tamil Nadu.

The day was not without controversy. IAF Chief was misunderstood as saying that it was not a Fourth Generation aircraft. Air Chief Marshal PV Naik later clarified that it was a fourth generation aircraft. He said that some systems and maneuvers have to be finalized leading to the FOC.

IAF plans to induct two squadrons in IOC mode by the middle of 2011. The IAF has already placed the orders for 40 LCAs in March 2005. The first 40 LCAs are powered by the American General Electric GE-F404 engines. The value of these 40 aircraft is estimated around Rs. 7,000 crore.

14 test pilots have flight tested LCA Tejas over the last 10 years. The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA)Tejas on 7 Jan 2011, had cleared its last hurdle before attaining the scheduled Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) with the aircraft's integrated flight control system receiving the necessary documentation from the certifying authorities. The Regional Centre for Military Airworthiness (RCMA) had handed over the certification for the LCA's integrated flight control system (IFCS). The FCS will enable aircraft perform 8 or 9 G's maneuvers.

The Regional Centre for Military Airworthiness (RCMA) handed over the certification for the LCA's integrated flight control system (IFCS) – the pilot-friendly flight controls.

IAF had announced plans for five LCA Tejas squadrons in the coming years. It means some 100 aircraft's will be producted with more powerful engine.

The IAF plans to ultimately have around 10 LCA Tejas squadrons to replace Russian MiG-21.

I have heard of old wine in new bottle but this is a case of old wine in old bottle. Tired of repetitive information. By the way I wonder who could have pressured IAF chief to rephrase his words. The whole world by now knows what he wanted to say. Imagine a pro fighter pilot like Naik is made to eat his words because he just was waiting to vent his frustration. Heaven help us!!!