2016 India–Pakistan military confrontation

[uoftotaku]

Gentle nudge to return to topic please ^^


Air Chief in Delhi.. Please let it be

While I eagerly await a day when IAF is able to replicate its namesake IAF (yehudi) in precision deep strike capability...unfortunately we are a long way from that day yet.

 

[Project Dharma]

While I eagerly await a day when IAF is able to replicate its namesake IAF (yehudi) in precision deep strike capability...unfortunately we are a long way from that day yet.

I'm not qualified to comment on the capability. I will say however that based on my amateur observing the IAF seems to be the least aggressive of the Indian army, navy and airforce.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

The point was I was saying India should concentrate strength against China and Pakistan like Israel does on their neighbours and you said India should try to expand her power.

I said so because India has a strategically autonomous history most of the time. Even the current warmth towards the NATO is temporary. So, India's threat are not permanent. India also focussed only in South Asia under Congress's regime and results were disastrous. A full spectrum outreach is needed instead of a protectionist and defensive policy which can't even serve national interests for long term. Meanwhile, materialising aspirations will not only help India to be a more prosperous country than it could achieve playing defensively, but could protect interests in most scenarios autonomously.

I'm repeating again and again, Israel is Israel because of their situation. When India could reach out to play even a different better league, there's no need to make India a region centered nation. Instead, when India emerges as great power, our regional as well as global threats will be nullified or collapsed.

ACs are relevant because ACs are tool of projection. Therefore I raised the ACs are becoming obsolete.

From the old link







We are making the same mistake. Even US and Soviet Admirals are saying what I said.

Even India has missiles like Sagarika enough to sink aircraft carriers.

Over that, you can also put ABMs on AC to protect it, further our ACs are equipped with many air defense systems.

and over that, we don't leave a carrier to operate alone in sea. It's surrounded many naval ships and I hope you know about what sort of submarines, corvettes, destroyers and frigates we are inducting now a days.


Chinese DF-21D has never been tested against a moving target actually it's obsolete. Worse thing is that, you are asking India to stop making aircraft carriers because Chinese has ASBM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

What does it prove? All goes on strategy again plus no way supports that India must not make ACs.
I can give a hundred examples when ACs changed the game. Even, Indian context, 1971 blockade was possible because of AC.


If you think of a similar war with Balochistan, India needs at least 3 CBGs to block NATO and Chinese forces from entering waters because this time we have no USSR backing us.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Lets not get distracted from main purpose of this thread ..

I said so because India has a strategically autonomous history most of the time. Even the current warmth towards the NATO is temporary. So, India's threat are not permanent. India also focussed only in South Asia under Congress's regime and results were disastrous. A full spectrum outreach is needed instead of a protectionist and defensive policy which can't even serve national interests for long term. Meanwhile, materialising aspirations will not only help India to be a more prosperous country than it could achieve playing defensively, but could protect interests in most scenarios autonomously.

I'm repeating again and again, Israel is Israel because of their situation. When India could reach out to play even a different better league, there's no need to make India a region centered nation. Instead, when India emerges as great power, our regional as well as global threats will be nullified or collapsed.

Even India has missiles like Sagarika enough to sink aircraft carriers.

Over that, you can also put ABMs on AC to protect it, further our ACs are equipped with many air defense systems.

and over that, we don't leave a carrier to operate alone in sea. It's surrounded many naval ships and I hope you know about what sort of submarines, corvettes, destroyers and frigates we are inducting now a days.


Chinese DF-21D has never been tested against a moving target actually it's obsolete. Worse thing is that, you are asking India to stop making aircraft carriers because Chinese has ASBM.

What does it prove? All goes on strategy again plus no way supports that India must not make ACs.
I can give a hundred examples when ACs changed the game. Even, Indian context, 1971 blockade was possible because of AC.


If you think of a similar war with Balochistan, India needs at least 3 CBGs to block NATO and Chinese forces from entering waters because this time we have no USSR backing us.

 

[armyofhind]

I'm not qualified to comment on the capability. I will say however that based on my amateur observing the IAF seems to be the least aggressive of the Indian army, navy and airforce.

Thats because of the laid down rules.
While confrontations at LOC and patrolling in international waters near territorial waters is disputed and cannot be tantamount to war, a violation of enemy airspace is immediately, and very clearly an act of war.

That apart, SIGINT flights along our airspace to snoop into enemy territory to obtain signals and electronic intelligence are regularly taken.

 

[Chinmoy]

We are inflicting. I was just supposing hitting their posts within visual range by ATGMs will be more effective and cost effective.

As you have mentioned, hitting their post with RCL or ATGM means hitting them with LOS. Then too you could destroy their pill box in max with these. Unless and untill you have height advantage, ATGM and RCL would not be anywhere effective in bringing down the bunkers. To make them effective, you have to hit them in their backyards, means you got to cross LOC. Untill then Mortar is the most effective to bring down the bunkers on their top.

 

[pankaj nema]

This total silence from Indian side is quite surprising

Maybe the first priority now is security audit of all Installations

If the terrorists can enter Nagrota then God Knows how many sleeper
cells are there all over the country

 

[India22]

As you have mentioned, hitting their post with RCL or ATGM means hitting them with LOS. Then too you could destroy their pill box in max with these. Unless and untill you have height advantage, ATGM and RCL would not be anywhere effective in bringing down the bunkers. To make them effective, you have to hit them in their backyards, means you got to cross LOC. Untill then Mortar is the most effective to bring down the bunkers on their top.

I thought MILAN 2T with tandem warhead should be able to destroy stone covered posts. We can also use TOW.

 

[Chinmoy]

I thought MILAN 2T with tandem warhead should be able to destroy stone covered posts. We can also use TOW.

It can destroy only the pill box portion of a bunker. The bunker as a whole would be intact. Destroying pill box means taking out one or two machine gunners at best. If you want to destroy the whole of bunker, top attack mode is the best option. Yeah if you could deploy something like Javelin, which we don't have, then things would be different.

 

[India22]

It can destroy only the pill box portion of a bunker. The bunker as a whole would be intact. Destroying pill box means taking out one or two machine gunners at best. If you want to destroy the whole of bunker, top attack mode is the best option. Yeah if you could deploy something like Javelin, which we don't have, then things would be different.

Do they have bunker connecting the pill boxes? Though I suppose hitting again and again will result in collapse. More then 5-6 MILAN 2Ts or TOW nothing will be required. Alternatively can we detect their mortar pits by UAV or flying Indian aircraft on our side or by artillery locating radar?

PS Dont we have Nag?

 

[raheel besharam]

All Army brats please take care, this Hizb commander is warning attacks on families of soldiers and officers...

i think an APS like attack is under making, all army schools must have tight security

 

[mavles ihctep]

All Army brats please take care, this Hizb commander is warning attacks on families of soldiers and officers...

i think an APS like attack is under making, all army schools must have tight security

Hi pls remove video,
30 characters shit

 

[Chinmoy]

Do they have bunker connecting the pill boxes? Though I suppose hitting again and again will result in collapse. More then 5-6 MILAN 2Ts or TOW nothing will be required. Alternatively can we detect their mortar pits by UAV or flying Indian aircraft on our side or by artillery locating radar?

PS Dont we have Nag?

let me just post one rough diagram of any temporary bunker.

Hope I am not violating any rule here by posting these diagrams here.
So as you can see that the general stationed area are kept underground which are generally well covered on top by rock and ground. The area beneath any pill box is kept empty as they are the first one to get targeted by any kind of firing. Now this fig is for one bunker with two pill box. But number of pillbox may vary. So you see, unless and until we attack these from top, you can't think about destroying these.

Mortar pits are always out and away from these bunkers. We could always detect these by WLR and already deployed these. But mortars could be dismantled quickly and reshifted along with the fact that any such temporary mortar post and too small for a target. But most of their casualties had occurred when we targeted these mortar locations.

 

[Bornubus]

All Army brats please take care, this Hizb commander is warning attacks on families of soldiers and officers...

Es BKL ko abhi koi brat mila Nahin hn voh esse batata.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/my-recent-modifcation-of-iof-315-rifle.74316/

 

[Bornubus]

Gentle nudge to return to topic please ^^


Air Chief in Delhi.. Please let it be

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...17-c-130-and-an-32-planes.77884/#post-1239034



Maybe briefing the PM on assisting in demonetization efforts. Generally we heard about IAF during such ops or Humanitarian efforts like hauling supplies for earthquake victims and potable water for Maldives etc

 

[Akshay_Fenix]

There Was No Intelligence On Nagrota Terror Attack

A top officer said : "Generalised intelligence alerts, which hold high-value targets are going to be attacked, are a routine practice in J&K. They are neither specific, nor actionable. In fact, I would call it a major intelligence failure, both on part of the Intel Agencies as well as the J&K Police."

NEW DELHI: The Army has rejected reports that there were specific intelligence inputs about the impending terror attack on the artillery regiment compound in Nagrota, which left two officers and five soldiers dead on Tuesday , though it does not deny lapses in ensuring proper perimeter security of the camp.

"There were no specific intelligence," asserted the outgoing Northern Army Command chief Lt-General D S Hooda on Wednesday.

Another top officer, who did not want to be identified, added: "Generalised intelligence alerts, which hold high-value targets are going to be attacked, are a routine practice in J&K. They are neither specific, nor actionable. In fact, I would call it a major intelligence failure, both on part of the intelligence agencies as well as the J&K Police."

But the Army does agree that it will have to further refine its standard operating procedures as well as strengthen the perimeter security of its camps in J&K. "But the government also has to allocate funds for strengthening the security infrastructure around military bases," he said.

In its edition on Wednesday, TOI had reported that both the defence ministry as well as the armed forces have largely failed to act on the comprehensive recommendations of the tri-Service committee, headed by former Army vice-chief Lt-General Philip Campose, which had submitted its report six months ago.

The Campose committee, which was constituted after the terror attack on the Pathankot airbase in January, has held there are several gaping holes in the existing security arrangements around the majority of military bases and installations around the country.

"But for every one successful strike by terrorists, there are around 30 that we manage to thwart in J&K. I wish we could succeed all the time but this is the nature of the battle. We have to accept some setbacks," said Lt-Gen Hooda, who retired on Wednesday, while talking exclusively to TOI.

"Can we do better? Yes, we can. We take our casualties seriously. We, more than anyone, mourn over them. The Army will learn lessons and apply them. Army camps, of course, are high-visibility targets for terrorists that grab a lot of media attention, while civilian targets generate the opposite sentiment,“ he added.

But after the Pathankot, Uri and Nagrota terror attacks, several questions are being asked about the heavy casualties the Army is taking in such encounters without learning the requisite lessons. In contrast, the terrorists, with active help and reconnaissance by local sympathisers, seem to have finetuned their strategy.

Such attacks, of course, are not a recent phenomenon. The deadliest such attack was the massacre at the Kaluchak camp in May 2002, which left 31 people dead and many more wounded, at the height of the Army's forward deployment during Operation Parakram after the terror strike on Parliament in December 2001. After the initial assault plan against Pakistan in January 2002 was deferred, India came close to war for the second time that year after the Kaluchak incident.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...agrota-terror-attack/articleshow/55721382.cms

 

[F-14B]

Don't worry this bastard will also meet his 72 hookers soon

 

[Akshay_Fenix]

Data from seized GPS set shows Uri attackers did travel from Pakistan

Forensic experts have established that the terrorists who attacked the 12 Infantry Brigade headquarters in Uri began their journey at a base in Pakistan, highly-placed sources familiar with the investigation have told The Indian Express.

The findings, the sources said, are based on digital data recovered from a severely-damaged Global Positioning System (GPS) unit recovered from the terrorists after the September 18 fighting that claimed their lives.

The data, recovered from the Garmin eTrex GPS unit carried by the terrorists, show the men travelled by road along the Muzaffarabad-Srinagar road towards the Line of Control on September 17, before beginning to hike into the mountains short of Chakothi, the official border point.

Following their penetration of the Line of Control south of Chakothi on the night of September 17, the men continued to walk eastward, traversing three ridgelines before climbing towards the village of Darah Goolan. They rested there before assaulting the 12 Infantry Brigade headquarters in the bowl below.

“It’s clear from the timeline of the terrorists’ movements, which we now have, that they were able to penetrate the three-tier defences on the Line of Control with relative ease, and evade Army patrols deeper inside Kashmir as well,” a source familiar with the case said. “This is an obvious source of concern.”

From data recorded on the set, investigators have determined it was first powered-up on September 4, a fortnight before the attack, at a known Lashkar-e-Taiba facility in the Leepa Valley — one of the areas later targeted by the Indian Army in the cross-Line of Control strikes in retaliation for Uri.

There has been no official investigation into how the four attackers succeeded in penetrating the Line of Control defences to cause the Indian Army’s worst single loss in the insurgency in Kashmir, but military sources said it is believed they used ladders to scale the barbed-wire fence.

GPS sets, which have a wide range of commercial applications, rely on radiowave signals from a network of satellites to guide users through unfamiliar terrain. The terrorists who attacked Uri were carrying two sets, but one was too badly damaged during the fighting for data to be recovered.

Last month, the Lashkar-e-Taiba admitted responsibility for the attack, naming one of the four terrorists involved in the operation as Muhammad Anas, who operated under the alias Abu Siraqa.

Posters that the organisation put up in his home town, Gujranwala, invited townspeople to join funeral prayers for “lion-hearted holy warrior Abu Siraqa Muhammad Anas, who sent 177 Hindu soldiers to hell at the Uri Brigade camp… and thus drank from the glass of martyrdom”.

National Investigation Agency detectives had also recovered syringes, painkillers, other medications and packets of ready-to-eat food bearing markings of Pakistani manufacturers from the terrorists killed in the operation.

Pakistan is yet to initiate criminal proceedings against either members of the organisation, or individuals involved in planning the operation.

In September, responding to a question, Pakistan Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan said “when Indians themselves have no proof, then what kind of action can Pakistan take? They have only levelled an accusation, and that too only to defame Pakistan”.

Indian government sources said that no information has emerged to corroborate claims that two Pakistani men who were later arrested were linked to the attack. The claims had formed the basis of a dossier handed over to Pakistan, asking for follow-up investigation by that country into the Uri attacks.

Faisal Husain Awan, a resident of Halka 4 in Potha Jandgran near the village of Koomi Kote, and Ahsan Khursheed, of Mohalla Kidri in the village of Khilayana Khurd in Muzaffarabad’s Hattian Bala tehsil, had been held on suspicion of aiding the four terrorists, involved in the Uri attack, cross the Line of Control.

Government sources said the two men, both students, are now believed to have strayed across, not an uncommon feature in the Uri area where populations reside close to the Line of Control. “No evidence has emerged so far that the men knew the attackers,” an official said.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-datas-attackers-did-travel-from-pak-4404185/

 

[Butter Chicken]

Good Jihadi is a dead Jihadi

 

[raheel besharam]

Good Jihadi is a dead Jihadi

these rats are attacking very frequently ,.