Skirmishs at LOC, LAC & International Border

[Icarus]

What do you mean by incapable? The Indian Army is very much capable of grabbing lands. Capability, and not taking that option right now are totally two different things. A small country was provoking India these many years, but looks like they are doing so out of desperation, if you still think otherwise, either you are ignorant on realities, or delusional, or both.

If the army can, surely PoK would've been ours by now?

Whether pak is desperate or not, that's a different matter. My point is, this is not just about politics. Congress had no political will, so you can blame the congress. But Modi is not weak. In spite of that, he plays it safe because he knows that there are certain things that the army can't do.

 

[Indian Sniper.001]

If the army can, surely PoK would've been ours by now?

So, was this a question?

But Modi is not weak. In spite of that, he plays it safe because he knows that there are certain things that the army can't do.

A few points stated by me in my old points, will reiterate them here.

- Any escalation or small skirmish will certainly end up in India's favor 'undoubtedly', and as you say, we can take back/occupy strategic points/peaks or the whole of PoJK.

- One possible reason we aren't doing it is because - potential higher rate of casualties from our side. Yes, I know, when there is a skirmish/escalation to take PoJK, casualties will happen, but it would have been much more lesser if they were equipped rightly - good BPJ's, and other defensive equipment. And it will take some time for the Army to be fully equipped.

- Other than Military escalation which is happening now, the front has been opened @ other frontiers - diplomatic and economic. Pakistan is being isolated globally, and their economic status is too bad with a forex of just 12b$ - with a few loans to be cleared in a few months, and no one willing to lend it to them.

- IWT is being challenged slowly. TSP is facing water crisis.

If this is not different from earlier, then I'm ignorant on how to explain things to you in a more simple way.

 

[mayfair]

If the army can, surely PoK would've been ours by now?

Whether pak is desperate or not, that's a different matter. My point is, this is not just about politics. Congress had no political will, so you can blame the congress. But Modi is not weak. In spite of that, he plays it safe because he knows that there are certain things that the army can't do.

It's a combination of factors, including capabilities, preparedness, cost-benefit and most importantly, what next?

 

[indus]

If the army can, surely PoK would've been ours by now?
Whether pak is desperate or not, that's a different matter. My point is, this is not just about politics. Congress had no political will, so you can blame the congress. But Modi is not weak. In spite of that, he plays it safe because he knows that there are certain things that the army can't do.

Its not been done because we were becoming more n more Gandhian by the day. See how we responded towards LoC during all major wars with Pakistan.
During 65 we opened Punjab sector, even captured Pak territories but again respected the LoC mandate. We returned the Haji Pir after war ended. Then in 1971 we ended the war after liberation of East Pakistan. PoK was left untouched. Then in 1999 Kargil we did not even cross LoC as ABV put up the condition that infiltrators shld be removed without crossing LoC.
Then came the 2001 Parl attack after which we mobilised army and Opn Parakram began. Heck there was no war itself, Pakis only got some banging on LoC. Pakis came begging for ceasefire and an agreement was negotiated.
Then came the 2008 Mumbai attacks. Govt of the day did not even consider an millitary option. They directly went in for dossier diplomacy and all that tamasha. So how could we have taken back PoK.
Pehle Bapua ur Chacha ke adarsho ko toh tyago. Tab baat karna army ke capability ke baare me.

 

[Prashant12]

No re-think on AFSPA removal: Sitharaman

New Delhi, Mar 3 (UNI) Stating that the Indian Armed Forces have been able to contain infiltration bid along the Line of Control (LoC), Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman on Saturday said there is no re-thinking on lifting up of Armed Forces Special Power Act (AFSPA) in Jammu and Kashmir.

“As of now, there is no re-think of removing AFSPA from any part whether it is Jammu and Kashmir or North East,” said Ms Sitharaman in an informal briefing.

On being asked about rise in infiltration bid, the minister said, “We are not allowing them (terrorists) to come in.

We are eliminating them at the border.
Infiltration is controlled to a large extent.

Read more at http://www.uniindia.com/no-re-think...n/india/news/1156350.html#GfVUvusIg3GeCufC.99

 

[Icarus]

So, was this a question?



A few points stated by me in my old points, will reiterate them here.

- Any escalation or small skirmish will certainly end up in India's favor 'undoubtedly', and as you say, we can take back/occupy strategic points/peaks or the whole of PoJK.

- One possible reason we aren't doing it is because - potential higher rate of casualties from our side. Yes, I know, when there is a skirmish/escalation to take PoJK, casualties will happen, but it would have been much more lesser if they were equipped rightly - good BPJ's, and other defensive equipment. And it will take some time for the Army to be fully equipped.

So in a sense, you're agreeing with me - that the army is at this time not capable of doing it (whether the reason is more casualty or logistical issues or whatever else).

- Other than Military escalation which is happening now, the front has been opened @ other frontiers - diplomatic and economic. Pakistan is being isolated globally, and their economic status is too bad with a forex of just 12b$ - with a few loans to be cleared in a few months, and no one willing to lend it to them.

- IWT is being challenged slowly. TSP is facing water crisis.

You need to credit Modi for this. Army has nothing to do with any of this. My original point was regarding the army alone, not diplomatic efforts of the current govt.

If this is not different from earlier, then I'm ignorant on how to explain things to you in a more simple way.

See my points in red......................

 

[LETHALFORCE]

If the army can, surely PoK would've been ours by now?

Whether pak is desperate or not, that's a different matter. My point is, this is not just about politics. Congress had no political will, so you can blame the congress. But Modi is not weak. In spite of that, he plays it safe because he knows that there are certain things that the army can't do.

What exactly is it that the army can't do??

 

[Bornubus]

Oh Bhai sahab
Two front war has already began. Can't you people simply see how Chinese are fortifying Pakistan? Are you guys sleeping or what? They will intrude, definitely intrude but not from their territory. They will intrude from Pakistani territory which is disputed with India. What did they do in Doklam? They tried to intrude into Indian territory from disputed territory between China and Bhutan to make a statement that it's disputed hence there is no aggression.

And I won't be surprized if they use POK for this, why? Because Porkis have already acceded shaksgam valley to the chinese. And mark this post, Indian will be once again caught with pants down. In Doklam thankfully Bhutan informed India, otherwise our military officers were sleeping there. When diplomatic pressure went only then they acted. This why China was able to come close to 10 meters proximity with Indian positions.

Why do you think Pakis and Chinese have built Karakoram highway, to intriude into Indian Ladhak from Pakistani side and when they intrude if India takes down the Pakistani logistic supply, Chinese can open a new one from Shaksgam valley. Why Chinese need Gwadar? They are making themselves independent of IOR, which is a part of two front war.


Sotey raho!!

How far is Barahoti (middle sector ) from your native place ?

 

[aditya g]

For record sake .....


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[Galaxy 7]

.:biggrin2:
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[Galaxy 7]

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[Icarus]

What exactly is it that the army can't do??

Can the army even take one inch of land from Pak? They can fire artillery, kill pak soldiers and terrorists, but can they even take an inch of pak land?

 

[12arya]

Can the army even take one inch of land from Pak? They can fire artillery, kill pak soldiers and terrorists, but can they even take an inch of pak land?

im sorry, but have u gone completely mad!!!!

 

[mayfair]

Can the army even take one inch of land from Pak? They can fire artillery, kill pak soldiers and terrorists, but can they even take an inch of pak land?

Guess you haven't read about the capture of Pt 5770 by the Rajput regiment in Siachen sector in 1999, now re-named Navdeep top.

 

[indus]

Guess @Icarus hasnt read abt capture of Quaid post in 1987, also in Siachin sector. Which was renamed Bana Top in the honour of NS Bana Singh.

 

[Galaxy 7]

Soldier injured along LoC

A soldier in the Army sustained injuries and was rushed to a higher hospital for treatment, after a suspected land mine explosion took place in Poonch's Khari Karmara area along the Line of Control (LoC) on Saturday.
As per sources, the explosion took place when a soldier, identified as Naik A Nelesh, accidentally stepped on a land mine. He sustained injuries and was shifted to a local army hospital, but was later shifted to a higher hospital as his condition is stated to be critical.

http://m.greaterkashmir.com/news/state/soldier-injured-along-loc/277596.html

 

[Babloo Singh]

Off topic but.... interesting news on actions of "All weather friend" of Napaki's.
They are arresting chines Muslim women in Xinjiang who are married to Pakistani's....

Dost Dost Na Raha

https://www.dawn.com/news/1393081

 

[Suryavanshi]

Off topic but.... interesting news on actions of "All weather friend" of Napaki's.
They are arresting chines Muslim women in Xinjiang who are married to Pakistani's....

Dost Dost Na Raha

https://www.dawn.com/news/1393081

Post this on baki forum
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[Galaxy 7]

Its become nearly impossible to conduct offensive in mountainous areas against well entranched enemy. Look at turkey 's offensive against poorly equipped stateless kurds in mountainous region. Even after using full fire power(airforce,artillery) turkey still struggling against kurds.
Only possibility is if We attack Lahore, Pakis might forced to withdraw from LoC.

For that we need another Lal bahadur shastri

 

[mayfair]

^^ At the time when we moved onto Lahore, Napakis were caught off guard. They had badly underestimated LBS and believed that India would restrict itself to Ceasefire line- this was bolstered after the brief skirmish in Rann of Kutch earlier that year.

LBS ordered IA to cross the IB and dash to Lahore. Shitistanis were caught off guard. But then so was IA, some senior officers were concerned about the lack of resistance and thought they were walking into a trap. The fact is Shitistanis expecting a counter-offensive in Kashmir had massed their forces there.

Our army despite advise from many quarters were ordered to camp on the eastern bank of Ichigogil without moving into Lahore. This allowed Napakis to reinforce the defences and by the time the overcautious generals realised that Lahore could have been taken, Napaki forces had reinforced the defences and taken out bridges.

Moreover, senior IA leadership told LBS that we were running out of ammo, when we had enough left.

In 1971, Napakis massed a large number of troops in this area as a lesson learned from 1965. They were hoping for a stalemate in East and West and the intervention of superpowers and thus, they would hang on to East Pakistan. Gen. Sagat Singh spoiled their plans and Gen. Jacob forced Niazi to his knees and GUBO. The rest is history.

Another dash to Lahore will not be the same as bulk of Shitistani forces are massed in Sialkot-Lahore-Chakwal axis.

Do read up deployments and ORBATs to get a better idea.