Skirmishs at LOC, LAC & International Border

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Mikesingh

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HunterbroM4

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Modi has a near impossible task of cleaning the system.
The political system per say is cleansed when drive out the Italian powered Congress aka left and so on.
You can never stop corruption it is a part of life unfortunately and is present in almost all countries so just live with it.However when it comes to our armed forces the bureaucratic system is so tightly integrated that it is just unimaginable for anyone (including Modi) to overhaul.All that will happen is that you will tie yourself in more and more red tape. Of course if congress has contributed anything more than corruption it is this bureaucratic system.
For instance Chidrambaram and raghuram rajan institutionalized a system of corrupt practices but ensured that is fairly difficult to point fingers at them.It is unfair to expect Modi to overhaul such a complex system overnight.
If Modi touches the system it will have a ripple effect like in the case of both GST and demonetization.
Obviously he cannot explain this to an ordinary citizen.The 2G scam for instance is so complex that a vast majority of people dont get it since it is comes down to a lot of technicalities now imagine a what will happen when we talk about a defense system.The shameless congress already started making noises on the Rafael.
I dont understand your claims. Italian powered congress? Act mature.
And about the rafale deal. Its the job of the opposition to question these kind of massive deals. The 2G scam too, did any called the opposition idiots when they made a claim about a scam. Things will be done in order and truthfully if there is an opposition.
I can understand your frustration. Rafale is an important system for our armed forces but no one questioned about its air worthiness. If any questioned then you can call them idiots because rafale was selected after a lot of trials. But asking about the money you are spending on buying them and who is manufacturing them is never an idiots claim. never call that stupid.
This is not a Modi fans club, this is a defence talk forum. Here discuss facts or doubts about defence systems.
For politics find another forum.
 

hammer head

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Thanks
So in such a skirmish, what would be Indian army's policy. Whether to grab the land simultaneously while defending it or only purpose is to defend. Chinese policy is clear that they will fight to take the land. Whatever you have mentioned and other members have also brought in notice that India has deployed 9 Mountain strike divisions, so does it make it correct when one says, India will intrude into chinese territory also somewhere else, if China plays foul? Or would India has deployed this strike corps to defend?

Also the man power ratio is it 1 chinese to 9 indian soldiers when on defensive role? Is it the same what Chinese presume?

@AMCA @indus @binayak95

On the Pakistani side I see difference in opinions. Some say grab the land some say, keep it how it is. Even the veterans have difference in opinions in India.

As the name suggests Strike Corps is for a strike purpose only, If the intent of the Hans is clear then the battle will be fought on their side only. The RATIO mentioned by you is applicable while Defences have been take and up and the aggressor wants to capture the defences. For eg in Arunachal Pradesh If Indians have taken defences and Hans decide to launch and attack they will have to cater for 9 troops for everey 1 Indian Solidier, Now you can imagine the amount of casualties which Hans will be taking.

The afore mentioned scenario eats up so much time that it deters both the side from planning and launching an effective campaign, Thats what happned in Doklam the Chinese had war gamed every possible scenario adn realized that the tide would not be in their favour.
 

pankaj nema

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As the name suggests Strike Corps is for a strike purpose only, If the intent of the Hans is clear then the battle will be fought on their side only. The RATIO mentioned by you is applicable while Defences have been take and up and the aggressor wants to capture the defences. For eg in Arunachal Pradesh If Indians have taken defences and Hans decide to launch and attack they will have to cater for 9 troops for everey 1 Indian Solidier, Now you can imagine the amount of casualties which Hans will be taking.

The afore mentioned scenario eats up so much time that it deters both the side from planning and launching an effective campaign, Thats what happned in Doklam the Chinese had war gamed every possible scenario adn realized that the tide would not be in their favour.
Sir when can we expect MORE punishment For the Pakis
 

Mikesingh

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Punishments are handed out just on the Borders but on the Global order too. Modi is doing it perfectly Today the pakis dnt even have the money to mobolise its Brigades from Afgstn border to its Indian front, Marde e moumin Bravado too shall fall soon.
The Pakis are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Rock = India
Hard place = Afghanistan

Or like the filling in a Dominos pizza burger!! :biggrin2:
 

SanjeevM

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China hikes defence budget to 175$ billion - 3 times more than Indians

https://m.timesofindia.com/world/ch...-8-1-percent-in-2018/articleshow/63168252.cms

Seems like Chinese intention to drag India into an arms race by spending more on Defence equipment and imports of foreign arms and loose its focus from economic development. Chinese are afraid of India becoming an economic superpower. Hence they want to create a public opinion in India to spend more on Defence budget to compete China. That is the reason our MSM is showing such articles.

We need to continue our focus on economic growth and along side have a credible deterrence to prevent Chinese from any ulterior moves. We need to invest in our indigenous arms industry and also focus on exports. Chinese may be looking at exporting their small arms including missiles to Middle east countries, India should step up its production and we can compete with China in small arms exports. We have some good quality guns including Excalibur and other guns being produced along with Dhanush and ATAGS. Besides we have some very good helicopters we can consider for export market.
 

binayak95

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China hikes defence budget to 175$ billion - 3 times more than Indians

https://m.timesofindia.com/world/ch...-8-1-percent-in-2018/articleshow/63168252.cms

Seems like Chinese intention to drag India into an arms race by spending more on Defence equipment and imports of foreign arms and loose its focus from economic development. Chinese are afraid of India becoming an economic superpower. Hence they want to create a public opinion in India to spend more on Defence budget to compete China. That is the reason our MSM is showing such articles.

We need to continue our focus on economic growth and along side have a credible deterrence to prevent Chinese from any ulterior moves. We need to invest in our indigenous arms industry and also focus on exports. Chinese may be looking at exporting their small arms including missiles to Middle east countries, India should step up its production and we can compete with China in small arms exports. We have some good quality guns including Excalibur and other guns being produced along with Dhanush and ATAGS. Besides we have some very good helicopters we can consider for export market.
I think this will backfire especially with China throwing money into the cesspool, I mean Porkistan. That region can soak up all the gold in the world and still remain dirt poor.

Good luck to you China!! Let's see how many terror outfits you can buy out and for how long.... :yo:
 

indus

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China is in arms race with USA not India. Their strategic aim is to replace Russia as a rival to USA. The foreign assets aquired in various countries like Sri Lanka, Djibouti, Gwadar etc are to secure SLOC in Indian Ocean. The actual hegemony China is creating is in SCS. Because of the huge gas and oil reserves present underneathe.
 

nongaddarliberal

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China hikes defence budget to 175$ billion - 3 times more than Indians

https://m.timesofindia.com/world/ch...-8-1-percent-in-2018/articleshow/63168252.cms

Seems like Chinese intention to drag India into an arms race by spending more on Defence equipment and imports of foreign arms and loose its focus from economic development. Chinese are afraid of India becoming an economic superpower. Hence they want to create a public opinion in India to spend more on Defence budget to compete China. That is the reason our MSM is showing such articles.

We need to continue our focus on economic growth and along side have a credible deterrence to prevent Chinese from any ulterior moves. We need to invest in our indigenous arms industry and also focus on exports. Chinese may be looking at exporting their small arms including missiles to Middle east countries, India should step up its production and we can compete with China in small arms exports. We have some good quality guns including Excalibur and other guns being produced along with Dhanush and ATAGS. Besides we have some very good helicopters we can consider for export market.
India does not enter their strategic thinking to that extent. They are concentrating on securing advantages in key areas against the Americans. And their real defence budget is a lot higher than 175 billion USD.
 

Mikesingh

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China hikes defence budget to 175$ billion - 3 times more than Indians

https://m.timesofindia.com/world/ch...-8-1-percent-in-2018/articleshow/63168252.cms

Seems like Chinese intention to drag India into an arms race by spending more on Defence equipment and imports of foreign arms and loose its focus from economic development. Chinese are afraid of India becoming an economic superpower. Hence they want to create a public opinion in India to spend more on Defence budget to compete China. That is the reason our MSM is showing such articles.
That's no big deal. Remember, we have just two enemies - China and Pak, whereas China has a huge land border to defend as well as protect its interests and assets in the South China Sea and its ambition to try and dominate the IOR. It is also wary of the US led NATO, Australia, Japan, and South Korea too.

So it's pointless comparing the defence budgets of India and China which is an expansionist power. It will thus need at least 3 times the defence budget of India in order to protect its strategic interests.
 
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Akshay_Fenix

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Pak Rangers build towers along border, BSF terms it ‘normal’

“Unusual” construction activity is being observed along the 550-km-long India-Pakistan border in Punjab. At several locations, the Pakistani Rangers have started strengthening their defence by building observation towers along the zero line.

In the Ferozepur sector alone, several “pucca” observation posts are being constructed along the International Border (IB) close to the Indian side. BSF officials say the development was “normal” as the Pakistani authorities can construct anything on their side. Sources say the matter has been brought to the notice of higher officials in New Delhi.

As per information, those manning the towers can observe every movement till several kms in the Indian territory. Earlier, the Pakistani security forces had made concrete bunkers and new border posts along the border. Alarmed by the construction activity close to their fields, farmers in Jama Rakhiya Hithar and other villages close to the IB said they felt vulnerable and insecure.

Sources say that in the Mamdot area, Pakistani border outposts, including Shere Jawan, Mehfooz Khan, Khalid Shahid and Jalle Khan, are situated away from the zero line, while BSF posts such as Jalloke and Raja Mohtam are right on the zero line.

Maybe for this reason, they say, the Pakistani Rangers want their posts be relocated close to the border for tactical purposes.
The BSF, meanwhile, is reportedly enhancing surveillance along sensitive areas. BSF officials said smart fencing was being installed. More observation towers, ambush and patrol shelters, and laser walls will come up subsequently.

To check spurt in cross-border drug smuggling and to prevent intrusion attempts, the BSF is in the process of erecting anti-cutting and anti-climbing fence.


Stupidity of highest order. And we wonder out here how our troopers die from sniper fire.
 

delbruky

THE VALOR OF BHAI SATI DAS 1621-1675
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Haven't heard much on Indian Shelling across LOC for the last four days. May be they are active but only at certain places. The entire LOC is not hot so to speak, can anyone second that? if so ON whose orders are the guns silent?If true this is the time when pak bat re group and maim our soldiers. "lull before the storm". I could be all wrong but dispatching pakis has to be a consistent effort.
 

Haldiram

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India does not enter their strategic thinking to that extent. They are concentrating on securing advantages in key areas against the Americans. And their real defence budget is a lot higher than 175 billion USD.
That's how their PR department makes it look.

China can't be world leader until it has established its hegemony in Asia. They can't do that if India keeps beefing up its security and building a reverse string of pearls.

Just check the number of 50 cent guys on this forum lately. Apparently they don't care about Indian 'sour grapes' opinion, but they don't move away to friendlier places, like the Pakistani defense forum or something else. India bothers China but China doesn't want to admit it.
 

nongaddarliberal

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That's how their PR department makes it look.

China can't be world leader until it has established its hegemony in Asia. They can't do that if India keeps beefing up its security and building a reverse string of pearls.

Just check the number of 50 cent guys on this forum lately. Apparently they don't care about Indian 'sour grapes' opinion, but they don't move away to friendlier places, like the Pakistani defense forum or something else. India bothers China but China doesn't want to admit it.
As far as I know there are only 4 or 5 chinese members who participate in this forum. Compare that to western defence forums where they participate in the hundreds. And there are dozens of them in the pakistani forum too. So even by this metric they dont pay that much attention to India. But yes, I do agree that their real leadership is concerned about India and does not dismiss us, but I disagreed with his statement that their military budgets increase was primarily aimed at bringing India into an arms race.
 

nongaddarliberal

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Last Modified: Mon, Mar 05 2018. 01 42 AM IST
How AI can help the Indian Armed Forces

The controversies surrounding autonomous weapons must not obscure the fact that AI has a number of non-lethal uses for militaries across the world


AI-backed systems could go a long way in increasing efficiencies and reducing overall costs. Photo: HT
R. Shashank Reddy
Of all the purported uses of Artificial Intelligence (AI), it would be hard to find one more controversial than its possible use for military purposes. In popular consciousness, the idea of military AI immediately brings to mind the notion of autonomous weapon systems or “killer robots”, machines that can independently target and kill humans. The possible presence of such systems on battlefields has sparked a welcome international debate on the legality and morality of using these weapon systems. The controversies surrounding autonomous weapons, however, must not obscure the fact that like most technologies, AI has a number of non-lethal uses for militaries across the world, and especially for the Indian military. These are, on the whole, not as controversial as the use of AI for autonomous weapons, and, in fact, are far more practicable at the moment, with clear demonstrable benefits.

For the Indian military especially, these potential uses of AI could prove to be exploitable low-hanging fruit to quickly and effectively enhance its technological capabilities. Put together, there are three areas where AI can be readily deployed without much controversy or effort.

First, logistics and supply chain management. This is arguably the lowest of the low-hanging fruits available to the Indian military. Substantial work has already been done in deploying AI for logistics and supply chain management in the civilian sector, with several Indian companies also having built considerable expertise in this area. It would, therefore, not require much effort to transfer the technology, knowledge and expertise already present in the civilian space to meet the military’s needs. An efficient logistics system lies at the heart of any well-functioning military, and this is especially complicated for the Indian Armed Forces given the diverse environments and conditions they operate in. AI-backed systems could go a long way in increasing efficiencies, reducing wastage and overall costs in the military’s logistics management.

Second, cyber-operations. As cyber warfare becomes faster, more sophisticated and more dangerous, it becomes necessary to develop both offensive and defensive cyber-war capabilities both to protect the military’s own assets and communication links, and to attack similar assets of opposing militaries. Specifically trained AI systems could actually prove to be far more efficient and effective than humans for such tasks. The scale and speed of the responses necessary in evolving cyber-operation domains make it unlikely that humans will be able to tackle evolving threats in an effective manner by themselves. A number of cybersecurity experts and commentators believe that AI is the future of cyber-operations, with machine-on-machine engagements increasingly becoming the norm, especially to counter low-order or routine threats.

Third, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR). This has already been put into practice by various countries, including the US, and, possibly, China. Using AI for ISR tasks can take two different forms. The first is the use of AI in unmanned vehicles and systems, whether on air, land, or on and under water. This includes increasingly ubiquitous drones but also unmanned ships and submersibles and ground vehicles. Such “intelligent” unmanned systems could be used for patrolling in harsh terrains and weather conditions, providing harbour protection, and allowing the deploying force to scout the battlefield or conflict zone with no danger to human soldiers. The second use is for data analysis and interpretation. An AI system could, for instance, be trained to pick out predetermined suspicious behaviour from the video footage of a surveillance drone, and thereby identify potential targets. Much of this work is currently done by humans, but the time taken and possible data under-analysed is immense. AI could do in a few hours what would have taken a human days to do, and in a significantly more efficient manner. This fact has led the US to develop and deploy an experimental system called Project Maven, which analyses video footage from drones to identify potential threats in the US’ fight against the Islamic State (IS).




The three specific use-cases discussed above are the very low-hanging fruit that can be exploited with the existing technical and manpower capabilities. The incorporation of these AI systems in the functioning of the Indian military could potentially lead to a long-term reduction in costs, while improving its technological capabilities. Further, the technology for each of these use cases is already present in some form principally in the civilian space.

To fully exploit their potential, however, the Indian military needs to build a close working relationship with the vibrant private technology sector in India, and especially with start-ups doing exciting work in the AI space. This will inevitably involve handing over potentially sensitive data to private firms so as to enable the building of AI systems that can meet the specific needs of the Indian Armed Forces. This is entirely uncharted territory in India, and to assuage the valid concerns that may arise with sensitive data being in private hands, a unique legal “trust model” needs to be built that accounts for the needs of the military and technological innovation. While the development of such a model may, in fact, prove to be a tougher task than the simple integration of AI technologies, it needs to be done if the Indian military is to prepare itself for warfare in the 21st century.

R. Shashank Reddy is a research analyst with Carnegie India.






 
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