Know Your 'Rafale'

Drsomnath999

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THIS IS FROM KANWA DEFENCE REVIEW MAGAZINE,







Rough Translation:
After 10 years of Preparation and Negotiation, French Dassault's Rafale midsize multirole combat aircraft finally win over all other 6 competing combat aircraft, and getting the India's 126 midsize multirole combat aircraft contract. The final contract have not been finalized, as long as military deal have not been signed, there will always be variation, so French Dassault have been keeping a low profile.

Rafale carries extremely high price tag and it is inducted by only one nation, why did it got the win over Indian Air Force Market? To put it simply, it is aircraft prepared for China. This is a product of the Indian Air Force strategy "to win two war simultaneously". As for Pakistan, presently inducted Mirage 2000H, MIG 29 and Su30 MK1 formed a light, medium and heavy combat aircraft mix. a cambat radium of 800-1500km(not including in-flight refueling). The mix is fully capable of attack all major Pakistan military bases and city. A air strike on Islamabad, can be cover even under Mirage 2000H combat radium. the western Pujab air force base is located no more 330km away from Islamabad.

Why would India need (another)midsize multirole combat aircraft? A improved Mig29PGU is already a midsize multirole combat aircraft. This can explain various reasons why Mig35 lost the bidding. According to KDR's reliable information, India need a midsize multirole combat aircraft, that most preferably to have a high combat radius, high weapon load and long distance striking weapon, especially European long-range attacking weapon. so it can be used to attack heart land of China. Mig35 lost the bid because, 1. Multiple long distance attacking weapon does not qualify the need of Indian Air Force, and the improved version of long distance air to ground missile have not been inducted by any nation. 2. the combat radius and weapon load are too low.

What KDR learn from Libyan War is that single engine combat aircraft can not satisfied the need of long combat in both weapon load or combat radius. UAE air force's Mirage 2000-9 need at least two refueling to be able to strike Libya, and even if it carries two addition gas tank, the combat radius is still at 1550 km. and the weapon load is only at 6 tons. That is why UAE air force's next choose will be twin-engine combat aircraft.

In comparison, Rafale are far more capable according to standard above compare to Mirage 2000H and even Eurofighter Typhoon. The weapon load of Rafale is 9.5 ton(Typhoon is 7.5 ton), it is higher than 9 ton weapon load of China's H-6,13-14 mounts. With two mounted gas tank, Rafale's combat radius is 1852km, internal gas tank alone allow combat radius of over 1000km, that is higher than Typhoon, because Rafale internal gas tank load are 4.7ton(Typhoon is 4.5ton).

If above is the case, then isn't Su-30MK1's new Brahmos multi-role tactic missile's 300 km range should be able to satisfied the above need. However, this type of air to ground missile is still undergoing development, air test just begin this year, and it will take much longer for induction.

As we all know, that one nation inducted Rafale combat aircraft, carrying a higher price tag compare to Euro-fighter Typhoon.the approximation cost differentiation is over 10 million Euro.How do Indian Air Force deal with this problem? The answer is licensed assembly. India will only import 18 Rafale, and the rest 108 Rafale will be assembled in Bangalore.This will lowered the cost significantly, and according to the report, the entire deal will be 12 billion USD(our magazine do not believe such a low figure, probably due to difference in calculation method). So the price tag may be surprising low.

The same situation, Eurofighter Typhoon also promised India. Why would New Delhi, finally give up(on the deal)? The main reason might be due to Reputation of French aircraft in India. From that prospective, West's business ethic are shown after delivery of aircraft, the real deal begin only after that. France's service quality have earned good response from India. Furthermore, the Mirage 2000H participated in 1999 Kashmir conflict, its excellent counter-jamming ability have earned high appraisal from Indian Air Force. In addition, in 1980s, India have corporated with France to licensed produce Jaguar combat aircraft, the cooperation is highly experienced.

Rafale Air-combat capability is way exceed J-11B and J-10A:lol::taunt1:

Based on the analysis, Rafale that being purchased by the Indian Air Force focused on long distance air strike, As regard to the air combat capability, Su30mk1 that have high maneuverability already fulfill the need. As a Strike Fighter, Rafale's maneuverability is outstanding. It has some characteristic of 4th generation Strike fighter(i think the magazine is using Western Standard). In air combat mode, when only mounting 6 Mica air to air missile, Rafale can conditionally into burst mode of 1.4 mach flight speed, of course in reality, this does not serve much value in real combat. However, it serve as example of certain maneuverability capability, The plane has thrust to weight ratio of 1.10, exceeding 1. This(figure) is great compare to crowd of many 3rd generation Strike Fighter+(too blur skip one word) is also a standardize 3rd generation Strike Fighter.

The excellent Radar and electronics system is the main reason for Indian Air Force to choose Rafale. According to the bidding plan rule, all bidding Strike Fighter must use AESA radar. In this respect, Rafale's AESA radar research plan is far more mature than the Mig35. It(AESA) should be able to mass produce and inducted in the army. The main improvement is in the precise accurate air strike capability, so the resolution(? a word i do not know how to translate) will be lower to 1 meter.As of Air combat capability, it can track 40 target at the same time and fire 8 MICA missile simultaneously to strike 8 target
TRANSLATION COURTESY: MY LEGEND FROM DFI
THANK U FOR THE TRANSLATION MATE
 

Apollyon

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Rafale's maneuverability is outstanding. It has some characteristic of 4th generation Strike fighter(i think the magazine is using Western Standard).


No it's not :D
Read the Paragraph again, it's saying (from western analogy) that Rafale features some 5th generation Technologies and also stands out against any other 4th generation strike fighter.
 

p2prada

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No, the magazine is referring to 5th gen aircraft in maneuverability. The very next sentence talks about supercruise at Mach 1.4.

Don't read too much into it though.
 

Drsomnath999

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No it's not :D
Read the Paragraph again, it's saying (from western analogy) that Rafale features some 5th generation Technologies and also stands out against any other 4th generation strike fighter.
LOLLZ

actually i didnt translated it ,it was MY legend who did i just copy pasted it .

anyways chinese usually adress 5th gen planes as 4th gen :D
 

vishwaprasad

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^^ please find this video on Typhoon. In this its shown that Typhoon releases a parachute canopy out of its right wing while maneuvering. What is the purpose of this? and I would also like to know that can our Rafale do this?


Regards,
 
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Drsomnath999

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FlightGlobal , August 28:




COURTESY: OLYBRIUS
THANK U FOR THE PICS MATE
 
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just4nikhilesh

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LETHALFORCE
mmrce deal include TOT and 18 come as knock down kit and rest manufacture at India and France is violating deal mean deal cancel so we have only one option MIG 35 and it is cost effective also
 

p2prada

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Add to that Akula on lease (another one, possibly on sell) and Nuclear plants.

Mig-35 was out already because of Super-Sukhoi.
Mig-35's rejection has nothing to do with politics. It was simply incomplete like the Gripen NG.
 

LETHALFORCE

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LETHALFORCE
mmrce deal include TOT and 18 come as knock down kit and rest manufacture at India and France is violating deal mean deal cancel so we have only one option MIG 35 and it is cost effective also
we have enough Russian planes I would like to see super hornet not because it is an American plane
but it has the high payload capacity it is a flying bomb truck
 

Jim Street

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Mig-35's rejection has nothing to do with politics. It was simply incomplete like the Gripen NG.
Actually it was good for us as I stated before, because of Super Sukhoi program, Mig-35 didn't make any sense.

And give our entire aircrafts deals especially after Super Sukhoi upgrade and FGFA to Russia by buying Migs.

French are trusted partners just like Russia (give or take).
 
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Jim Street

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we have enough Russian planes I would like to see super hornet not because it is an American plane
but it has the high payload capacity it is a flying bomb truck
I think Hornets will be better for our N-MMRCA. Rafale-M doesn't make sense if we sign the deal of Rafale. it will again mean, giving everything to French.

And Hornets will be great and will make our Navy's air wing more lethal if we get CATOBAR in our IAC-2 ACC.
 

Zebra

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Detail lies in hidden costs

04 Sep 2012
Author: Abhijit Iyer-Mitra

Rafale may have won the contest for the supply of Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft to India, but there's a strong possibility that we will end up paying far, far more than the bid amount. It appears that Rafale had quoted an unrealistically low amount to win the contract......

full story: Detail lies in hidden costs
 

agentperry

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THALES JV with BEL for making RADARS and other equipments for RAFALE IN INDIA is against this article.

THIS ARTICLE IS JUST A COCKTEASER.

BULLSHIT.

so controversy ends here
 

Bheeshma

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If HAL /BEL/ ADE/ARDE etc can even make 80-85% of Rafale in India, it is good enough. I am hoping for more of Pvt sector involvement.
 

agentperry

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If HAL /BEL/ ADE/ARDE etc can even make 80-85% of Rafale in India, it is good enough. I am hoping for more of Pvt sector involvement.
according to indian govt policy even BEL/HAL and other agencies are need to bring in pvt partners in the development and manufacturing process.

even if we hear that hal is making this or bel is making that then just assume that many more private vendors would be included( they are anyway included- you can google or if you own a company then fill the tender ;) )
 

p2prada

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Everybody has been waiting for this. :D

India to ink $11 billion MMRCA deal with Rafale by next month: Indian Air Force official - The Economic Times

BANGALORE: India plans to sign the $11 billion MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) deal with French Rafale by the end of this month-end or next month, a senior Indian Air Force official said today.

"I find no reason why it shouldn't be signed by the end of this month or next month", Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Training Command, IAF, Air Marshal Rajinder Singh said.

He indicated that negotiations are currently on with regard to pricing for the 126-aircraft deal. "There is money....this thing here and there (pricing being finalised)".

..............................
More in the article.

So, the earliest news about signing by October was correct. It does not appear the Mysura Reddy bogey had any effect on the timeframe.
 

Armand2REP

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Detail lies in hidden costs

04 Sep 2012
Author: Abhijit Iyer-Mitra

Rafale may have won the contest for the supply of Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft to India, but there's a strong possibility that we will end up paying far, far more than the bid amount. It appears that Rafale had quoted an unrealistically low amount to win the contract......

full story: Detail lies in hidden costs
Comparing Scorpene cost to Gorshokov? Come now... Gorshkov was Russian induced... Scorpene was MDL and GoI induced. India can avoid certain cost overruns by being able to absorb technology in the time frame and pre-order parts before inflation hits them = no problem with French pricing.
 

Defcon 1

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India to ink $11 billion MMRCA deal with Rafale by next month: Indian Air Force official

BANGALORE: India plans to sign the $11 billion MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) deal with French Rafale by the end of this month-end or next month, a senior Indian Air Force official said today.

"I find no reason why it shouldn't be signed by the end of this month or next month", Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Training Command, IAF, Air Marshal Rajinder Singh said.

He indicated that negotiations are currently on with regard to pricing for the 126-aircraft deal. "There is money....this thing here and there (pricing being finalised)".

The Air Marshal admitted to "some problems" (on pricing) but asserted that it's not unusual in such big deals. "It should come through", he said, adding that the first aircraft under the MMRCA deal would start "flowing in" in 2017.

The Air Marshal dismissed reports quoting Russian and German officials who had claimed that the deal is not final yet and that it's still up in the air.

"Nothing of that sort", he said, pointing out India had already declared the lowest bidder -- Rafale -- for the MMRCA deal.

Vyacheskav Dzirkaln, Deputy Director of Russia's Federal Service for Military Technical Cooperation,was recently quoted as saying:"I wouldn't say that MMRCA tender is a closed issue. We have information that the tender is still up in the air".

The deputy chief of the ruling CDU-led coalition's parliamentary committee in Bundestag (lower house of German Parliament) for foreign and defence affairs, Andreas Schockenhoff, reportedly said recently the last word had not yet been heard on the MMRCA deal.

Russia's MiG-35 did not make it to the MMRCA shortlist, which also included Eurofighter Typhoon,designed by a European consortium in which Germany is a part, besides Rafale.

India to ink $11 billion MMRCA deal with Rafale by next month: Indian Air Force official - The Economic Times
 

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