Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

Vijyes

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We have been making helicopter on our own for decades now, cheetah and Dhurv why can't we just make helicopters on our own.
I don't think we lack in anything more than engine sphere.
We lack huge industrial base. The intention seems not at acquisition of Technology but at expansion of quantity of industrial assets. So, the intention is not to look at cost of indigenous items but to simply develop private industry to increase the industrial base. Otherwise, HAL does make good helicopters and with HTSE1200 almost ready, it is the best option

Rfi is issued to the oems, be it private or gov, and if an indigenous option like HAL is available which satisfy the rfi then the defence ministry would need to go for the Buy IDDM (indigenously designed, developed and manufactures) classification, which is accorded highest priority under the Defence Procurement Procedure, under dpp-2016.... thats why i called stop been an ignorant spam and read whats actually written in those links. Private industry is more concerned of naval alh, which recently demonstrated its boom and tail folding capability. If naval alh satisfy basic requirement, it will not require to go for competitive bidding and HAL would wont the contract under iddm, just like mod ordered more akash over other srsam .
This is different case. We don't need indigenous helicopters but need to develop industrial base. The only option is to get foreign collaboration to help private industry grow. By 2025, India is expecting needs for huge quantity in defence and hence trying to grow the industrial capacity by increasing number of vendors and parts manufacturing units

Only trying to correct your earlier statement that '3 blades are foldable' - which creates a misconception that the issue is fully solved.
Why does the 2 straight blades need to be folded? Isn't the intention of folding blades to save space? The front and back blades are in line with body and hence don't eat any space in the hangar. So, what is the benefits of folding the front blade backwards?
 

Enquirer

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Why does the 2 straight blades need to be folded? Isn't the intention of folding blades to save space? The front and back blades are in line with body and hence don't eat any space in the hangar. So, what is the benefits of folding the front blade backwards?
Because the front blade protrudes about couple of meters ahead of the helo's nose....thus, requiring 'longer' stowage space.
 

Vijyes

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The models offered are :

European manufacturer Airbus seems to be at an advantage with two platforms – the H 145M and the Panther AS565 – on offer for manufacturing in partnership with Mahindra Defence. The American side has offered the Sikorsky S 76D while Russia has offered the Kamov Ka 226T for the mega project.
All these choppers except S76 appear to be underpowered

Then we will have "Sada" ALH which is neither NUH nor a multirole naval helicopter ... HAL is a "majboori".....
ALH with folding blades is not SADA. HAL is indeed a world class manufacturing company.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/as565-panther-helicopter/
The blades can be folded manually and are equipped with quick disconnect pins. The main rotor blades incorporate a carbon fibre reinforced plastic spar and are filled with a Nomex honeycomb material. The blades are corrosion and damage resistant.

a
nd yes do not ask me these questions as I am not selling it ... I only started with a news item and you all have brought me here ! In the process HAL pants are down.... useless exercise.
These are under powered. In addition, navy has always asked hydraulic folding blades as manual folding is time consuming.
 

Vijyes

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Because the front blade protrudes about couple of meters ahead of the helo's nose....thus, requiring 'longer' stowage space.
Hmm... I thought that only aide space is constrained and there is sufficient space along the length of the chopper. Moreover, folding of tail reduces some space along the length and compensates for the extra length needed in front.
 

Aaj ka hero

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Nope...only two. The rear blade remains unfolded!
Only three blades need to be folded in all! And HAL NUH folds only two!
The folding issue has been highlighted for more than a decade, not sure which 'future' date HAL intends to meet the requirement 'completely'. Once MoD finalizes the 111 NUH deal, then HAL can move its version to its 'near miss' museum!!!
Sirji, if the one blade is already AT THE DESIRED LOCATION WHY YOU NEED THAT TOO TO BE FOLDED.
Well, what you say I think is mathematically true.
 

Enquirer

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Sirji, if the one blade is already AT THE DESIRED LOCATION WHY YOU NEED THAT TOO TO BE FOLDED.
Well, what you say I think is mathematically true.
Only 'one' blade can be at the intended location....other three have to be folded....but only two are folded in the current HAL Naval ALH
 

patriots

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HAL Dhruv is not a twin engined machine?
Dhruv is a twin engined machine..
But dhruv has manually foldable rotors.....
But now can dhruv fold rotors automatically.....
And another problem is...dhruv falls between.....medium lift.....
Light helicopter....

Small helicopters can land on small decks.....which might not....

Also mtow and endurance is.low(from shukla article)
Hope hal will be able to convince navy.
 

Bhadra

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Make in India: HAL offers Indian solution to Indian Navy’s requirement for Advanced Light Helicopter ‘Dhruv’

The Rs 21,738 crore deal for 111 Naval Utility Helicopter (NUH) proposed to be `Made in India’ could tip in favour of state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited’s (HAL). A top officer told Financial Express Online “The Company’s NUH is an Advanced Light Helicopter `Dhruv’ with customisation designed to meet all the operational requirements of India.”

Adding, “The flying machine can be fitted with torpedoes, Depth Charges & Missiles, Self Protection System (SPS) & Flight Crew Data (FCD). Besides having Software-defined radio (SDR), Data Link & SATCOM, these helicopters will have the main rotor blade folding and tail boom folding to enable stowage in Navy’s ship hangars.”

Earlier this year at the Aero India 2019, HAL had demonstrated the Tail Boom folding and Main Rotor folding of the Naval Utility Helicopter.


US-based Lockheed Martin’s Sikorsky Helicopters which has responded to the Express of Interest (EoI), is likely to drop out at the next level as it has multiple non-compliances. “Unless the Indian Navy dilutes its requirements at the Request for Proposal (RfP) Stage, the company might drop out since it is non-compliant to many of the specifications of the helicopter the navy is seeking,” a top official said.

Three companies Lockheed Martin’s Sikorsky Helicopter S 76D, European Airbus and Russia’s Kamov Ka 226T, have responded to the EoI floated by the defence ministry earlier this year. The companies last month submitted proposals to build their helicopters through an Indian industry designated as “strategic partner” (SP).

The European manufacturer Airbus has submitted proposals for two platforms – the H 145M and the Panther AS565 – to be manufactured in partnership with Mahindra Defence.

Under an Indo-Russian inter-governmental agreement (IGA), both HAL and Indo-Russian Helicopters Ltd (IRHL) already have a joint venture to manufacture the Kamov 226T light helicopter in India.

HAL on its own has offered its indigenous ALH for the NUH deal.

This will be the first acquisition under the SP procurement model when it is finalised. Under the SP model the OEM is expected to tie up with local Indian companies who are manufacturing major platforms in India with niche technologies and production knowhow supplied by a foreign OEM.

According to officials, Ministry of Defence (MoD) in the EoI has stated that the OEMs have been mandated to set up a dedicated manufacturing line, including design, integration and manufacturing processes for NUH in India. It had also said the OEM will have to make Indian manufacturing line as a global exclusive facility for the NUH platform being offered.

As has been reported by The Financial Express earlier in 2015, the Indian Navy had received as many as 10 bids from Indian companies for the NUH programme. However, in an effort to keep the process transparent, the navy had encouraged OEMs tying up with a single Indian partner.

Once the contract is finalised, 16 helicopters will come from the OEM directly and the balance will have to manufacture in India with almost 60 per cent indigenisation. In a process which will take a couple of months, all the technical bids will be scrutinised by the Indian Navy, before intensive trials start for evaluating the performance of each machine in different terrains and weather conditions.

https://www.financialexpress.com/de...-for-advanced-light-helicopter-dhruv/1600086/

Here is an effort by HAL to play their usual game - Go to press, misinform, confuse, obfuscate and play political games.
The project being under SP model, HAL seems to be suggesting Rules should not apply to them.

Next will be Raul Da Vinci making a statement and issueless Congress grabbing it as an issue. Then RandiTV crying it day and night. India Today and Aaj TK will go out of their way to prove how HAL makes the best NUH in the world.

This is a clear effort by a government agency playing against the government.

Here is a live example of HAL trying to kill a competition by unfair means and kill any development any Indian private Industry developing aviation balls.

Just watch and see, this is going to be made the next Rafale issue - Chowkidar Chor hai. Do not forget how HAL played the game of Rafale against Reliance and Anil Ambani.

Just watch and see - how Indian Navy and MoD will be kicked out by HAL. Poor Rajnath Singh has a problem at hand.
Poor IN will watch the sky for next ten years for Naval ALH to fall down into their lap...

So the game has begun...............:pound::pound::pound::pound:
 

Bhadra

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“The Company’s NUH is an Advanced Light Helicopter `Dhruv’ with customisation designed to meet all the operational requirements of India.”


How is it a NUH ? It is ALH Dhruv modified. Since HAL is making it, it does not become NUH. NUH which HAL was making was a single engine smaller size platform. Where has that vanished ?:doh:

Adding, “The flying machine can be fitted with torpedoes, Depth Charges & Missiles, Self Protection System (SPS) & Flight Crew Data (FCD). Besides having Software-defined radio (SDR), Data Link & SATCOM

Specify. The RFI does not ask for what it will have and from where but what it has ??:cool1:


these helicopters will have the main rotor blade folding and tail boom folding to enable stowage in Navy’s ship hangars.
"Will have"?? Please what it has. RFI is interested in knowing what it has and not "will have".

So This a 'Will Have" machine. :crying:

Then IN will see see it when it is ready.
Out of the door for the time being.................:shoot:
 

Vijyes

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How is it a NUH ? It is ALH Dhruv modified. Since HAL is making it, it does not become NUH. NUH which HAL was making was a single engine smaller size platform. Where has that vanished ?
NUH is not N-LUH. ALH is also an utility helicopter. So, ALH modified to Naval use is NUH. The LUH is 'light utility helicopter' and is a lighter version. You are confusing LUH for NUH. Both are different platform
 

Enquirer

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How is it a NUH ? It is ALH Dhruv modified. Since HAL is making it, it does not become NUH. NUH which HAL was making was a single engine smaller size platform. Where has that vanished ?:doh:
The single engine variant from HAL is LUH not NUH, you whackjob!
LUH at some point in the future could have a naval variant too!

And yes, ALH with tricycle landing gear, folding rotor-blades/tail-boom, maritime radar is an NUH!!!
 

AMCA

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How is it a NUH ? It is ALH Dhruv modified. Since HAL is making it, it does not become NUH. NUH which HAL was making was a single engine smaller size platform. Where has that vanished ?:doh:


You are confusing NUH with LUH which is a light weight single engine utility helicopter being developed for replacing Cheetah and Chetaks used by IA and IAF.

HAL LUH:

Naval Dhruv (old version):

Naval Dhruv (Updated Version with new rotor and tail folding mechanism). This one is contending for Navy's NUH procurement program:


 

Bhadra

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You are confusing NUH with LUH which is a light weight single engine utility helicopter being developed for replacing Cheetah and Chetaks used by IA and IAF.

HAL LUH:

Naval Dhruv (old version):

Naval Dhruv (Updated Version with new rotor and tail folding mechanism). This one is contending for Navy's NUH procurement program:


Whatever, Indian Navy wants a platform to replace their fleet of Chetak and Cheetah as specified in RFI.

Is ALH an appropriate class replacement for Chetak and Cheetah ?

Please tell me what is this :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Light_Utility_Helicopter

Why should Indian Navy pay for that extra junk ?
 

Vijyes

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Whatever, Indian Navy wants a platform to replace their fleet of Chetak and Cheetah as specified in RFI.

Is ALH an appropriate class replacement for Chetak and Cheetah ?

Please tell me what is this :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Light_Utility_Helicopter

Why should Indian Navy pay for that extra junk ?
Are these twin engined helicopters? Why would India replace these single engine helicopters with twin engined ones? And even if that is the case, by getting twin engined helicopter, the helicopter automatically becomes incomparable with Cheetah/Chetak. So, why ALH will be a problem operation-wise?
 

Enquirer

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Whatever, Indian Navy wants a platform to replace their fleet of Chetak and Cheetah as specified in RFI.

Is ALH an appropriate class replacement for Chetak and Cheetah ?

Please tell me what is this :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Light_Utility_Helicopter

Why should Indian Navy pay for that extra junk ?
How did you manage to linger on this forum for 8+ years, posting 8000+ messages, but not knowing the BASICS of Indian defense industry, the products & the tech???

I think I already know the answer!!
 

Bhadra

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Whatever the Case may be :

Is HAL eligible to participate in Strategic Partnership Model ?

It's joint venture with Kamov - IRHL, is also currently a public sector firm, with HAL holding 50.5 per cent of its equity, while Russian Helicopters (42 per cent) and Rosoboronexport (7.5 per cent) hold the rest. However, IRHL would cease to be a public sector company, were HAL to divest a share of its holding to an Indian private sector firm which has not been done so far. So even Kamov is not eligible.

Since when has HAL become a partner of MoD, GoI. Is it since HAL went to Raoul Gandhi to whack Nirmala Sitharaman in the parliament ? And actively lobied for - Chowkidar Chor Hai ??
 

Bhadra

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The single engine variant from HAL is LUH not NUH, you whackjob!
LUH at some point in the future could have a naval variant too!

And yes, ALH with tricycle landing gear, folding rotor-blades/tail-boom, maritime radar is an NUH!!!
Ah ! Go and brush your teeth and mouth .
I do not like foul things in the morning ??
 

Bhadra

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How did you manage to linger on this forum for 8+ years, posting 8000+ messages, but not knowing the BASICS of Indian defense industry, the products & the tech???

I think I already know the answer!!
That a good observation .

Keep off, you.....
 

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