AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[abingdonboy]

My logic is, ADA is using every resource to get FOC for mK1. their all expertise and faculties are busy with that so they put Mk2 and AMCA on the back burner. secondly, ADA is already having more project in hand than it could deliver like, FOC, MK1A, MK2. moreover, ADA has to have finished all these projects in the next 10 years. third, AMCA itself is a highly technological complex programme it will need next level testing facilities, infrastructure and a highly dedicated and motivated team which ADA yet to develop
So in this highly congested schedule, ADA need a space to breathe so either they have to abandon mk2 or push AMCA timelines further
MK2 completion date, as per ADA, is 2028- 2030 so why we need MK2 while we are developing 5th generation plane in parallel? one more thing, here on this forum, we actually expecting AMCA debut flight ( 2023) earlier than Mk2 (2024-25)

You’re wrong on this. Design work is done by an entirely different team than the quality inspectors and concept validation.

FOC is now in the hands of the production agencies and HAL, there may be some ADA involvement but it won’t be from the design team.

FOC isn’t going to be taking any resources away from MK.2 let alone AMCA who all have their own design teams, in fact the Mk.2 has two- one for navy and one for airforce versions.


Hard to follow the logic that FOC would impact the design and development efforts of ADA, this simply isn’t how these things work.

 

[kamaal]

You’re wrong on this. Design work is done by an entirely different team than the quality inspectors and concept validation.

FOC is now in the hands of the production agencies and HAL, there may be some ADA involvement but it won’t be from the design team.

FOC isn’t going to be taking any resources away from MK.2 let alone AMCA who all have their own design teams, in fact the Mk.2 has two- one for navy and one for airforce versions.


Hard to follow the logic that FOC would impact the design and development efforts of ADA, this simply isn’t how these things work.

There are many things which were not supposed to work the way it is working currently between ADA, HAL & IAF.

There is a confusion regarding the role of HAL & ADA in achieving FOC and working on MK1A, I simply don't know which org is doing what !!!

But I am damn sure that IAF is still that spoiled customer.

And yes AB, 2032 deadline for AMCA looks logical by going through all the pending projects and incoming changes which IAF will propose once MK2 arrives after 2025.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

There are many things which were not supposed to work the way it is working currently between ADA, HAL & IAF.

There is a confusion regarding the role of HAL & ADA in achieving FOC and working on MK1A, I simply don't know which org is doing what !!!

But I am damn sure that IAF is still that spoiled customer.

And yes AB, 2032 deadline for AMCA looks logical by going through all the pending projects and incoming changes which IAF will propose once MK2 arrives after 2025.

No one in RSS is in a mood to listen to IAF. If IAF is not willing to fight ten we will hire new soldiers is the line taken. So, IAF has no choice but to only consult and advice. AMCA and MK2 are arallel projects. The subsystems will be same wherever possible.

 

[Shakti Malik]

Here is a nice presentation by AMCA Project director himself.

 

[Kay]

Lots of problems with OBOGs - maybe we should cut back plans to eqip LCA and AMCA with OBOGs until technology matures.

The Air Force has appointed a general to investigate why pilots keep having trouble breathing in the cockpit



MILITARY & DEFENSE
The Air Force has appointed a general to investigate why pilots keep having trouble breathing in the cockpit

• Christopher Woody
  
• Jan 22, 2018, 5:10 PM ET

US Air Force/Master Sgt. Jeffrey Allen
F-16 Fighting Falcons from the Arizona Air National Guard's 162nd Wing fly an air-to-air training mission against student pilots April 8, 2015.

• Numerous Air Force planes were grounded in 2017 after pilots experienced symptoms of oxygen deprivation while in flight.
• Both Air Force and Navy planes have seen such incidents over the past several years, but military officials have struggled to find root causes for them.
• The Air Force has formed a headquarters-level team to take a force-wide look at the problem and recommend steps to reduce and eliminate them.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.bus...estigate-oxygen-loss-hypoxia-incidents-2018-1

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/just-might-be-fatal-flaw-could-crash-f-22-or-f-35-28047
Pilots of at least six different kinds of OBOGS-outfitted military aircraft have had trouble breathing in recent years. They range from hot planes like the Air Force’s F-35As, F-22s and A-10s, and the Navy and Marines’ F-18s, to the more modest Navy T-45 Goshawk and Air Force T-6 Texan trainers.

 

[Narasimh]

AMCA prototype should be quickly built with capabilities which can be quickly implemented and not waiting for every tech do developed and then build prototype. Like the Chinese, the block approach is the best way to go for developing aerospace eco-system. Here the battle of perception has to be won.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

AMCA prototype should be quickly built with capabilities which can be quickly implemented and not waiting for every tech do developed and then build prototype. Like the Chinese, the block approach is the best way to go for developing aerospace eco-system. Here the battle of perception has to be won.

We don't care for perception in warfare. India first has to prioritise MCA (LCA MK2). AMCA will also be built in parallel. The idea is to build AMCA with MCA technology initially and then upgrade it to 5th generation standards. The prototype building for AMCA is also hard as 70% of stealth is determined by design and hence it is important to be very careful about the design

 

[Narasimh]

We don't care for perception in warfare. India first has to prioritise MCA (LCA MK2). AMCA will also be built in parallel. The idea is to build AMCA with MCA technology initially and then upgrade it to 5th generation standards. The prototype building for AMCA is also hard as 70% of stealth is determined by design and hence it is important to be very careful about the design

Perception matters in preventing a war.. 1965 war with Pak was because they perceived our strength to be low. If enemy perceives you are powerful they think very hard before attacking.

Chinese are already developing their H-2 Bomber prototype and they have designed like B-2(as per reports). They already have their two 5th Gen fighters going. The Chinese definitely do not have all the 5th gen tech as the US but they have managed to make think tanks across the world about their rising strength in this domain. We on the other hand, are struggling with dwindling squadrons. Had there been no nuclear weapons with us, I think we would have seen some misadventure already by our neighbors.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Perception matters in preventing a war.. 1965 war with Pak was because they perceived our strength to be low. If enemy perceives you are powerful they think very hard before attacking.

Chinese are already developing their H-2 Bomber prototype and they have designed like B-2(as per reports). They already have their two 5th Gen fighters going. The Chinese definitely do not have all the 5th gen tech as the US but they have managed to make think tanks across the world about their rising strength in this domain. We on the other hand, are struggling with dwindling squadrons. Had there been no nuclear weapons with us, I think we would have seen some misadventure already by our neighbors.

China is not an enemy anymore. Modi has bridged the trust deficit. Also, dwindling squadron is retarded media hype. India is capable of making Su30 and can mass make it when needed. Nothing is stopping India other than the fact that it will cause panic in other countries.

About Pakistanis and other jihadis, India wants a war so as to be able to get permanent peace by ridding them forever. Avoiding war with Jihadis is not the intent but starting it is.

 

[Sancho]

the block approach is the best way to go for developing aerospace eco-system.

For us that means...

- achiving FOC for LCA, a decade behind the original plan
- developing MK1A prototypes and getting them into production ASAP
- developing an MK2 prototype to meet performance requirements

All this still comes ahead of AMCA and even if we get that right, we still lack all basics for a 5th gen programme (design know how, suitable engine, radar, avionics..), which makes any approach without a foreign partner, the next obvious mistake.

 

[Narasimh]

Good discussion on stealth, counter stealth and AMCA. Very nice to see our retired service men are abreast of latest and greatest tech. Jai Hind

 

[cyclops]

...............................

 

[sunnyv]

Very very ambitious project . But how much in house experience of cutting edge technologies we have. I mean

Radars with stealth but ECCM capability.

Supercruise with stealth intake design. Heat disaapication method.

360 Sensors with Laser Optical AeSA + sensor fusion and AI. Who will do it.

Cost of the project will run in several billion of dollars. At least 20 billions if not less just in designing phase. Funding for this and then money to buy these planes in numbers to justify it.

This will be biggest leap for our local industry.

 

[Vinod DX9]

Two big statements, together mean a lot

 

[Shakti Malik]

AMCA, India's first stealth fighter, likely to be airborne before 2025...

Read more at: https://english.manoramaonline.com/news/nation/2019/02/19/india-stealth-fighter-project-amca.html

 

[Vinod DX9]

New models of AMCA at Aero India 2019

 

[brational]

Nice to see All new scale models of AMCA in every Aero India show. We will definitely see a new Scale Model in Aero India 2021.:bounce:

 

[Enquirer]

Here's an interesting contrast (or similarity?)

Tejas Mk2 Project Director's take on Mk2
Status..........Advanced stage of preliminary design
First flight.....2023

AMCA Project Director's take on AMCA
Status...........Advanced stage of preliminary design
First flight......2024


What's happening here??? And why???

No wonder both are confident that only F414 will be used as its engine (Kaveri will not be used)

 

[happylion]

Various components like serpentine ducts, special honeyvomb RAM skin and a host of other things were silently being worked on by ADA and NAL so both Mk2 and AMCA are chugging along. Mk2 was slowed down due to focus on Mk1 and dpeed has recently picked up ( AMCA team is a different one) thpugh I expect cross pollination will be there. Mk2 historically should have been up and about earlier bit that did not happen.

 

[Enquirer]

Here's an interesting contrast (or similarity?)

Tejas Mk2 Project Director's take on Mk2
Status..........Advanced stage of preliminary design
First flight.....2023

AMCA Project Director's take on AMCA
Status...........Advanced stage of preliminary design
First flight......2024


What's happening here??? And why???

No wonder both are confident that only F414 will be used as its engine (Kaveri will not be used)

Despite strikingly similar timelines at first look, I think AMCA's first flight will be a Tech Demonstrator, while Mk2 will be a prototype that's close to IOC.

AMCA flight testing will probably go on for another 8-10 years. TDs graduating to several prototypes. Mk2 could possibly march up to IOC/FOC in 4/6 years.