Warriors of Gujarat

civfanatic

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Keep whining and crying all you want but there was no Sultanate of Chittor, no Sultanate of Jaisalmer, no Sultanate of Siwana, etc. All these places the invaders were ultimately defeated and driven out by the Rajputs.
There was a Sultanate of Delhi and a Mughal Empire which ruled them. How is that so different from having a regional dynasty rule them instead, as far as this discussion is concerned? Muslim rule ultimately ended in all places in the India subcontinent (besides Pakistan and Bangladesh).


Unlike you I don't pit one Indian community against another. So in all cases, all Indian regions and communities resisted Islam. Much better than the third-rate Persians who shamelessly converted.

Life is for living like a lion and die fighting on the battlefield...not convert to foreign ideologies.
You should stop putting up false titles like "Warriors of Gujarat". You were proved wrong so now you are attacking Persians instead. :rofl:

Only insecure people attack others to make themselves feel better.
 

Simple_Guy

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Mine says quite clearly that he was a Rajput
Doesn't matter whether he was a Jat, Khatri, or whatever. He was a MUSLIM and not a warrior of Gujarat.

Vijayanagar was not an anti-Islamic state, but a universal, secular one..
Vijayanagar was a Hindu empire. But thats not the point. Every community/region has some failings. You only seem to bash a select few.
 

Simple_Guy

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You should stop putting up false titles like "Warriors of Gujarat".
Had I started a thread on traders or farmer of Gujarat, would you have also called it false?

There were and are and always will be warrior communities in Gujarat.

Only insecure people attack others to make themselves feel better.
A beautiful description of yourself, since you are the only one attacking Indian communities on an INDIAN forum.

Why do you care what I call Persians?
 

civfanatic

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Doesn't matter whether he was a Jat, Khatri, or whatever. He was a MUSLIM and not a warrior of Gujarat.
So what if he was Muslim? By blood and place of origin he is not much different from the people you praise on this thread as "Warriors of Gujarat". The only think that was different was his religion.

Your religious bias is disturbing. Again, this thread should be properly titled "Hindu Rajput rulers of Gujarat", because that's what you want to communicate about.


Vijayanagar was a Hindu empire. But thats not the point. Every community/region has some failings. You only seem to bash a select few.
It was a Hindu empire only insofar as the rulers were Hindu. The actual government and administration was quite secular. Hinduism before modern times has lacked a political component (unlike Islam, for example), so virtually all "Hindu" states were by nature secular.

I am not bashing anyone on this thread. Show me a post where I insulted Gujaratis.
 

civfanatic

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Had I started a thread on traders or farmer of Gujarat, would you have also called it false?
Not unless the traders or farmers were of outside origin.

There were and are and always will be warrior communities in Gujarat.
From outside Gujarat.

A beautiful description of yourself, since you are the only one attacking Indian communities on an INDIAN forum.

Why do you care what I call Persians?
Again, show me where I attacked Gujaratis.

Insulting other nations is a sign of insecurity. I respect Persians because they were a great civilization who contributed many things to the world. It's the same reason why I respect the ancient Indians, the Chinese, the Japanese, and even the West, among others.
 

Simple_Guy

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Your religious bias is disturbing. Again, this thread should be properly titled "Hindu Rajput rulers of Gujarat", because that's what you want to communicate about.
Actually I had posted on the warrior traditions of KATHIS, MERS, and TRIBALS of Gujarat. But in all your whining you seem to have lost sight of that :p

I am not bashing anyone on this thread.
:rofl:
Joke of the day.

Show me a post where I insulted Gujaratis.
Arrey sasura itna time kiske pass hai??

Why don't you start threads on other warrior communities/regions?

Even one on the useless Persians :taunt1:
 

parijataka

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@parijataka let me add that there are negative things about every community. Marathas serving under Deccan sultans, destroying Vijayanagar, Ranjit Singh despite his large army refusing to fight the British, Rajputs serving under Mughals, Vijayanagar happily trading with Arabs/persians and recruiting Muslims, and on top of that fighting the Hindus of Orissa despite the threat of Islam looming over them.

But this guy is only interested in bashing others and not looking within. He really got ants in his pants when the Persians were exposed as weaklings and cowards. :p
Agree.

@civfanatic has a soft spot for Persians !
 
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PredictablyMalicious

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So what if he was Muslim? By blood and place of origin he is not much different from the people you praise on this thread as "Warriors of Gujarat". The only think that was different was his religion.

Your religious bias is disturbing. Again, this thread should be properly titled "Hindu Rajput rulers of Gujarat", because that's what you want to communicate about.




It was a Hindu empire only insofar as the rulers were Hindu. The actual government and administration was quite secular. Hinduism before modern times has lacked a political component (unlike Islam, for example), so virtually all "Hindu" states were by nature secular.

I am not bashing anyone on this thread. Show me a post where I insulted Gujaratis.
You certainly did insult dogras but I'll let it slide. Can't reason with haters.
 

Virendra

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I don't know much about Gotra or Traditions, but Genetically they are disparate. I have given some links on other relevant threads.

Its been established that 4-1.9 thousand years ago caste system soldified before that Indians irresp used to inter-breed with one another. Hence ANI+ASI is the hallmark for Subcontinentalness.
@Virendra if you might remember this was also the period of Dwapar waning and Kalyuga being ascendant as per Yukteshwar Giri.
Unable to understand the relevance of Yugas here. As a recent research has indicated, people married across castes till 2000 years back.
Are we trying to suggest that Kaliyuga froze the castes in this way?
What I know is that the castes that we see today and in medieval centuries, aren't a direct derivative of the vedic varnas. This has been accepted by the likes of Romilla Thapar as well. There's been a lot of shuffle between the two kind of setups. I believe it was this fluid caste system only, filling the gap.
As far as ANI-ASI are concerned, their mixing would've begun a long time back; longer than 4,000 YBP. The differences (genetic or otherwise) aren't fully dissolved. Probably due to endogamy, gothra rules and Ice age strengthened geo-climatic barriers.

Regards,
Virendra
 
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Virendra

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Afaik Rajputs generally do consume meat and alcohol. @Virendra @thakur_ritesh @jatkshatriya would know better.
Yes Meat and Alcohol is consumed by Rajputs. It wasn't so prevalant before medieval centuries. Meat and Alcohol consumption was ceremonial and limited even among the martial sections of the society back then.
Arrival of Islamic entities changed a lot of things. Increased use of Meat, Alcohol and enforcement of veils for women are only a few points of the cultural impact.

Regards,
Virendra
 
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TrueSpirit

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Complete and utter nonsense, with zero basis in fact.



You conveniently ignored the two centuries of Rajput cooperation with the Mughals, when Rajput armies campaigned everywhere from Afghanistan to Assam in the name of the Mughal padishah.




Vijayanagar did not end with the Battle of Talikota. It survived for another century, albeit in a much weaker state and with a different capital.

You also forgot to mention that the Rajputs were subjugated in the late 16th century by Akbar, within a few years.




Babur in his memoirs explicitly says that the Raja of Vijayanagar was the most powerful of the Hindu rulers, and he rated Rana Sanga of Mewar as second.

Link: http://ia700202.us.archive.org/5/items/baburnama017152mbp/baburnama017152mbp.pdf

The opinion of Babur is much more consequential than the opinions of 21st century fanboys.



The Rajputs and Sikhs had nothing to do with defending South India. The only Rajputs who fought south of the Godavari, were those in the service of the Mughals.

The rest of your post is totally irrelevant.
Ok, fine. Thank you.
 

Simple_Guy

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Gujarati war horse in Tamil Nadu



One of the oldest cattle fairs in this part of the country, the Andhiyur cattle fair, began at Andhiyur in Erode on Wednesday. The fair that is held every year to coincide with the festivities at the Gurunathar Swamy temple nearby, will be held over the next four days when horses, cows and other cattle from across South India would be brought for sale and display.

According to the organisers, the Andhiyur cattle fair dated back to the period of Tipu Sultan who was supposed to have initiated the annual event to attract the best of horse breeders from the region. "Tipu Sultan bought horses for his army mainly from the Andhiyur fair," they said.

The special feature of this fair is the presence of various breeds of horses, including Kathiawari, Kathuria, Nokhra and Marwar, among others. Horse breeders also bring their favourite horses to showcase their passion for the animal.

"This year's attraction is a Kathiawari horse, belonging to a farmer from Saravanmpatti in Coimbatore, which is the second tallest horse in the country at 68 inches," said one of the organisers. Over the years, the Andhiyur fair seems to have more cows, bulls and other cattle as the market for horses is on the decline.
Deccan Chronicle

Kathiawari to ho gaya from Gujarat. Marwari is from Rajasthan. Where are the Kathuria and Nokhra horses from?
 

TrueSpirit

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I don't understand how any of my posts are "anti-North Indian". I am simply telling the truth as is apparent from facts.

I have great respect for Sikhs, both their religion/ideology and their martial traditions, as well as Gurkhas.

But I have no respect for whiny wannabes.
OK.

Everyone on DFI is listening...........All Rajputs are whiny wannabes; including:

Janjua Rajputs,
Mewar Sisodias,
Pratihar
Marwar Rathore,
Bundelas,
Dogra,
Nepal Ranas (erstwhile Emperor of Gorkha), &
Shahi dynasty of Af-stan & NW subcontinent.

The whiny wannabe emperors are:

Harsha Vardhana
Nagabhatt I
Bappa Rawal
Nagabhatt II
Man Singh Tomar
Rana Kumbha
Rana Sanga
Maharana Pratap
Rana Jawant Singh
Zorawar Singh

So, all these are whiny wannabes who deserve no respect & you do not even know about them. Well done, self-anointed historian.

Did you have the slightest inkling about the achievements of above-mentioned dynasties & individual ?. Or, your predisposition against Rajputs prevents you from accepting facts ?

Your beliefs automatically become holy grail (unchallenged facts) while the composition of contemporary Indian Army is fiction.

It is in everyone's plane view who have defended India & who continue to do so (much more than others)

And yes, how can you hate North Indians......after all, you have heard of the Sikhs & Gorkhas, right ?

Only these two communities ever fought the invaders, right ?

Why is it that everyone knows of Chandragupta, Samudragupta, Maharana Pratap, Shivaji & Guru Govind Singh but few know about any of the Vijaynagar kings (maybe, an occasional KrishnDev Rai)

No, you are no hate-mongrel.

Just a minor disgrace......for everyone (including DFI)......that's what your type of people are.

Pity & shame that all the bookish history knowledge in the world could not serve you an iota of wisdom when it comes to reality.

Neither did it help you in overcoming your inherent bias against all & sundry.

Would really help if you refrain from propaganda that no one believes in, anyway, & think a bit, before you post about our ancestors.

Not that anyone in the world gives the slightest damn to whom you respect & who in you opinion were whiny-wannabes, it is just that intentional baiting through mindless posts (that you habitually post) wastes my time & effort.

Try being a contributor/moderator than being a rabble-rousing instigator of flame-wars.
 
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TrueSpirit

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When did the Rajputs defeat Arabs in Sindh? As far as I know, the region was ruled continuously by Muslims since the initial Arab invasions. When Mahmud of Ghazni invaded Sindh, he fought other Muslims and not Hindus.
:rofl: Battle of Rajasthan which took place on Sindh borders.

Are you really as clueless about history & reality, as you trying desperately to prove yourself ?
 

Simple_Guy

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Kathiawari war horse in Karnataka

Patronised by the Kathi tribesmen and Rajput rulers of the Saurashtra region, the Kathiawari was initially used as a thorough - bred war horse. Considered to be the most comfortable riding horse in India, Kathiawari possesses great stamina, a light pace and can carry huge weights across long distances stretching to weeks at times.

Kathiawari Exodus to Mysore:
It would be worthwhile to note that the Wadiyars of Mysore were the first in South India to purchase the Kathiawaris from Gujarat. Initially a part of Dasara retinue, the Kathiawari breed of horses are today used to draw tongas in and around Mysore. Priced between Rs. 1 lakh and 2 lakh, Kathiawari are more of a rarity with just around 20 of them left in Mysore. Most tongawallahs prefer buying cheaper breeds like Marwari and Gulfaams. But then again, all breeds like the Marwari, Rajput, Charls, Gulfaams etc, are off - shoots of the Kathiawari horse!

Kathiawari horses are procured during the annual horse fair held in Pandarapur, Maharashtra on the auspicious occasion of Deepavali. A majority of the horses fill the stables of the Police and Army units spread across the country. Kathiawari horse is often mistaken for a pony due to its diminutive size. Standing not more than 15 hands high, they come in a variety of colors like Chestnut, Dun, Tobiano pinto and in assortments of eye - catching cream dilutions. The hall marks of the Kathiawari breed are fine heads attached to graceful necks, a build that's slim & wiry with a narrow but deep chest. The back is long and the croup moderately slopping. Although their legs are slim, they are strong and the hooves tough. To this must be added the legendary pace and quiet temperament.

Chetak was the most famous horse of Maharana Pratap Singh of Mewar, whom Pratap rode during the gruesome Battle of Haldighati, Rajasthan, on June 21, 1576.
Chetak died in this battle and since then has been immortalised in the ballads of Rajasthan. This famous warhorse was of Kathiawari or Marwari breed. Folklore has it that Chetak's coat had a blue tinge. That is why Rana Pratap is sometime referred as the "Rider of the Blue Horse" in ballads.
 

TrueSpirit

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Persia was a cakewalk for Arabs. Whereas Arabs could never conquer India. It was only 500 years later that Ghori could make a base in India. It was all due to sacrifices of dauntless Rajputs.

Some people cannot digest the fact that their ancestors hardly had any role in defending India & even today, play a fringe role. While the real defenders of India, in their glorious tradition, continue to defend us gallantly.

For such ignorant folks, one suggestion: Read, Hear, See: News. The present. The reality, that no propaganda can deny.
 

Simple_Guy

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The Government of India identifies five breeds of Indian horses: Marwari, Kathiawari, Manipuri, Spiti and Zanskari. The first two are known for their beauty and speed; the last two are slow- moving horses found mainly in the Himalayan ranges.

Marwari : This breed derives its name from its habitat: Marwar in Rajasthan. Reared today mainly for riding, sports and light draft and agricultural work, it was initially bred by the rulers of Marwar as a warhorse, reputed for its loyalty and bravery in battle. The predominant body colour is brown but roan, chesnut, bay, gray, palomino and piebald are also found. It has a long body, a height of 152-160 cms generally, a deep chest, slender legs with small well formed hoofs and a long facial profile. Its most distinctive feature is its natural pacing gait (called revaal) and pointed ears with inward turning tips. Hair whorls and their placement are important to breeders of Marwaris. The breed is today regaining some of its lost popularity due to the efforts of individuals and organizations like the Indigenous Horse Society of India.

Kathiawari: Reputed to have sprung from the wild horses of Kathiawar in Guajarat, this breed is often considered the oldest of the indigenous horse breeds. The Kathi tribesmen and Rajput rulers used it as a warhorse as it could speed across miles of open, dry land with little food or water. The coat has an iridiscent sheen. Generally the horse has a height of about 147 cm. The perfectly proportioned horse has a concave profile with a fine muzzle, large evenly placed eyes, and well shaped arched neck. The ears are small and curved inward, almost touching at the tips, with a capacity to rotate 180 degrees backward. Black eel strip on the back and Zebra markings on the front legs are distinctive to the Kathiawari which is endowed with acute eyesight and hearing, great stamina and endurance and a light pace. It is often used in the Police and Army stables in India and comes largely in dun and chestnut colour. NGOs and other organizations are working to save and enhance the breed.

Zanskari : This native Himalayan horse is genetically related to the Spiti breed. Considered the most hardy of the Indian breeds, it can work in extremes of altitude and temperature. Found in the Leh and Ladakh area of Jammu and Kashmir, this horse is predominantly grey in colour, though black and copper coloured ones are also found. Low set with heights ranging from 120-140 cms, their characteristic features are prominent eyes, long and heavy tails and uniform gait. The body hair is fine, long and glossy. Large scale mating with non-descript ponies has endangered this species. The Animal Husbandry Department, Jammu & Kashmir has undertaken breed improvement and conservation through selective breedings.

Manipur : This breed, developed in India, is reportedly derived from ancient stock drawn from the Mongolian Wild Horse and the Arabian and were probably brought to India by Tartar tribes who also brought the game of polo. Bred in Manipur, in North East India, this breed is tough, intelligent and has tremendous endurance, qualities that make it perfect for racing and for playing polo. Standing at a height of 11-13 hands, the Manipur pony has a light head with a straight profile, set on a well formed neck, deep chest and sloping shoulders. With small pointed ears and alert eyes, the breed comes in a variety of colours: bay, chestnut, grey, brown and white. It has become a part of the socio-economic life of the hilly regions facilitating travel and transport.
Stamstathi
 

Decklander

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Arabs defeated Raja Dahir of Sindh in 712 AD and they were beaten back and thrown out of Sindh by Rajputs in 732 AD. The Arabs lasted just 20 yrs in India. After that all other invasions were from North starting with Turkic invaders to monguls. The last invasion by Persians was in 1739 by Nadir Shah. And the last invasion by afgans was in 1761 by Abdali.
 
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