US has 'snatch-and-grab' plan for Pak's nuke weapons

[civfanatic]

Nukes are probably the most overrated thing in the history of mankind.

 

[himanshugoswami]

are u serious...??when 3/4th of pakistani radars and corps are stationed on the Indian side u expect US to conduct a military ops from India...and secondly US has more logistical support from their bases from AF than from India...

Indian support is not the same as launching the attack from indian side. I am referring more to US using Indian supply depots along our west coast, our bases for their bombers etc.

Pak Radars- since when has that been an issue for the US- remeber OBL raid. Also, if US Hornets launch an attack from the Arabian sea from their CBG and simultanouesly, US Falcons attack from Indian bases, how long due you think the Paki AF will lsat- a couple of hours at best. However, when anihilation is nigh, the danger is that the Pakis may resort to lobbing a few missiles on India out of frustration.....and that is going to be the deterrent for GOI to offer any support, at least overtly, to the US.

the only way I see this working is if Indian commits to troops wholeheartedly and the US and India launch a massive blitzkrieg that completely redifens the meaning of shock and awe- Israel may also chip in , esp thru covert ops behind enemy lines in taking out "key" installations. and of course, Russian involvement will be needed to keep China at bay- kind of a "if you step in, we step in" Russia is strong enuf even today for this threat to matter.

but at the end of the day, I dont see any of this coming true......would love for it to happen, but not holding my breath.

 

[Tshering22]

Nukes are probably the most overrated thing in the history of mankind.

You think that after what a 15 kiloton nuke did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it ought not be over-rated? That too when we have super megaton range nukes these days.

 

[Tshering22]

Pakis keep boasting/warning that they'll nuke India, if US tries to grab their nukes.
It only shows what scumbags they are.

No one in their leadership does that. Only some teens on steroids on the forums do that. Because if there is a nuke threat to us even if we are not involved, our NO FIRST USE policy automatically nullifies and we arm our nukes ready. Pakistanis don't want that.

 

[Tshering22]

If USA has no other choice they can launch an operation from Central Asia. Long ranger bombers also can be used from anywhere.

That depends on what they can offer Russians, mate. Mind you, CAR is still Russian property despite the "unofficial dissolution" of Soviet Union. So far, the one thing that Russians are asking for territory and passage into Af-Pak WOT is equal share and participation in the nuclear missile shield cooperation that US is planning to put in Europe. That for some stupid reason, Obama is not accepting despite knowing that Russia is no long a threat to US and rather Jihad is.

Technically, Russians would also be relieved if Pakistan is bombed back to stone age since Taliban won't be creating problems in CAR. Jihad has been a menace in CAR countries and so far, only Uzbek, Kazakh and Russian militaries are strong enough to deal with Jihadis. A prosperous Pakistan would mean a lot of headache for the Bear.

So the ball is in Obama's court whether he wants to save the world being the Global Police or does he want to screw it up and complicate it later due to a stupid lingering cold war mentality.

 

[Bhadra]

What is the Plan

1. It is only a worst-case scenario and remember not the best case or in between scenarios. Which may be quite a lot.

2. Scenarios:

A. Pakistan plunging into internal chaos.
B. Terrorist mounting a serious attack against a nuclear facility.
C. Hostilities breaking out with India ?? (Hmm that is interesting but not new fear. Rand corporation had been advising the US Air Force what they need to prepare to avoid this catastrophe and prevent loss of major income to US from South Asia. After all Yankee dollar is every thing that American aim at.
D. Islamic extremist taking charge of the government or the Pakistan army.


3. What is the Situation Or the Target Situation.


A. Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, now believed to consist of as many as 115 nuclear bombs.
B. Land missile.
C. Assets which are the pride of Pakistan, assets which are dispersed and very secure in very secure places.
D. Guarded by a corps of 18,000 soldiers," (or whatever).


4. Actions plans of Sources of Threat for Paki Nucs :


A. A US snatch operation.
B. snatch-and-grab operations (more elaborate).
C. worst-case scenario- highest priorities of the US intelligence community ... and the White House. All out tragetting of Nucs with premptive strikes including nuc strikes.
D. US military operation aimed at Pakistan's nuclear arsenal means a war.
E. US Nuclear Emergency Search Team (NEST), operative during peace time.
F. Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) ready for grab and neutralise.


So what exactly there are Paki answers? Go to Pakdef and one will gauge the frenzy and madness. The first thing they would do is nuc India. The second thing they would do is nuc Isreal. These are only to generate fear and terror. Somehow Pakis have to come to believe that Terror is their supreme weapon.

The first and foremost, the US must concentrate on is to terrorizing Pakistan beyond shape.
Break the belief that they can terrorize the world with their nucs. US should openly deploy their Nuc forces inside Afghanistani besides close to Paki coast. Regularly fire one odd missile from Afghanistan. Clearly and openly declare that any nuc attack on India or Israel would be an attack on USA.

 

[Bhadra]

If one happens to go the subject thread on Pakdef, there the main points of arguments of the thread are little erroneous and need deliberation.

Firstly Nuclear weapons has No religion and its neither Allah nor is physics Islamic that nucs would not blast over Muslim population including over Pakistan.

Pakistan soon will have Nuclear neighbors three or possibly five sides of the Country. India, China, Iran and possibly Afghanistan ( US) and Israel. There is no permanent friendship in military calculations. For deterrence purposes Pakistan has five sides to target and neutralize. It can just be nightmare. That is probably why Pakistan needs five times the size of Nuclear arsenal than would be sufficient.

The main line of defense being taken for the safeguard of Nucs is dispersal all over and thus being larger in numbers. However, in my view, these two factors will make it possible for the Nuclear weapons to be obtained by Terrorists and Separatist within Pakistan to threaten existence of Pakistan itself. The biggest threat to Nuclear stability if Pakistan are Jehadies (irrationality) and regional conflicts verging on to separatism ( forces pulling Pakistani entity apart. Thus the more numbers of weapons and the more sepration means the more chances of their falling into their hand. They would blackmail the world and specially the Pakistan into fetal actions. Such groups can be motivated by India, US, Israel or Iran / Afghanistan. That is the grave danger. In such a realistic eventuality, Pakisan would face Nuc threat from four five sides. Where all will they lauch? Only on India? That will be foolish and an end of existence!

The Soviet Union or North Korean similies are not applicable for Pakistan. Pakistan can be made to eat grass for their bombs. Pakistani elites and their military is not used to eating the grass so far. If anything including Politicians and Generals can be bought in Pakistan, if Stingers can be bought back, I am sure, Nukes in physical forms can be bought. Example North Korean, Libyans and others bought Nucs from Pakisatn. If AQ Khan has a price, I am sure other can be bought including those guarding and storing it. To discount that Pakistan must obtain economic survivability which can only be obtained by trading with India. No other means in foreseeable future. The country needs peace and political stability. Continous confrantion with India to achieve this has been unproductive so far. One massive unrest in Xinziang and Chinese missiles would be targeting Pakistan.

Pakistan can not discount that if the situation remains as it is, the country would be enveloped from all sides by anti missile shield. Technology itself can overcome Missile threats in near future and make Pakistan's nucs redundant. Pakistan has to survive amongst comity of Nations and International order. Their Nucs do not overcome this fundamental requirement.

So pray to Allaha and not the Nuclear weapons as is evident from most of the posts in the thread.

The threat lies within and not outside Pakistan . The threat lies in your minds and your hearts. Why demonise US special Forces or India. They are doing what they are required to safeguard their security. Pakistan is bent upon inflicting wounds on herself. Nucs are not a guarantee of survival but a sure guarantee of self destruction.

Pakistan is under precarious situation. Only they can help themselves. Allah can not help them. Allah is lover of humanity and not only Muslims.

 

[sandeepdg]

My question is: How? Even if it has all the info, which is not possible, how will it snatch and grab Pakistani nukes? They are not lying there assembled and ready in one place. Knowing Pakistani terrain, they could be anywhere between Balochistan and Chitral. It would take eons to find out all the nukes even if US manages to buy out a few generals and scientists.

As much as this mission is favorable, it is not practical. The only way they can do that is get all the top Pakistani officials (90% generals and scientists) either captured, maimed and interrogated, or simply killed so that the secret dies with them and no one else is able to use the nukes.

Mate, as the pet line is US defense and administrative circles is "All options are on the table", so expect every option to be actually on the table. That of course includes, buying up Pakistani leaders, scientists, generals etc to divulge the secrets and get as much of the dirty work done as they can without making the situation more complex. You see, they can throw wads of dollars at those who are corrupt and they will sell every damn secret they know, anyway there are still some elements in defense circles who are willing to side with the Americans come what may, so such entities can also help.

Yeah, finding 100-115 nukes and destroying them or whisking them out of a country like Pakistan is nothing short of nightmare come true scenario, even for the US and it will be difficult, no doubt about that. But I don't think the Americans will wage a full scale war or anything, unless of course they can't avoid it. But even the Americans know that, hell Pakistan is not Afghanistan or Iraq that it can be run over without any opposition especially if you are going after something that Pakistan values as its most important asset and uses them as its trump card in the international arena, but yeah obviously they have a plan for going about it as has been clearly stated in the news reports.

Many different tactics and conventional and unconventional approaches will be implemented if such a mission has to be carried out, and I don't how much can India help in all this, and I seriously doubt that we will give them any thing more than some basic favors like overflight rights to their planes and some minimal logistic support to the USN, at the most. I don't think anything else can be expected from India, forget about IAF Sukhois and USN Super Hornets flying side by side and taking out nuke storage bunkers all over Pakistan ! That kind of an eventuality is only suitable for a Hollywood movie, not in a real life scenario !

 

[Yusuf]

Conducting bomber raids on Pak does not require either India or CAR bases. Carriers and the bomb trucks (F18s$ plus Diego Garcia based B2s, B1s. They can roast pak. Bur this is considering a scenario when the US is forced to attack Pak in response to a terror attack on it's soil tracing to Pak.

As far as securing the nukes are concerned, they have it in component form. That makes it harder, but we have been reading over the years that the US has Pak nukes covered. They know beat about this.

 

[Neil]

Indian support is not the same as launching the attack from indian side. I am referring more to US using Indian supply depots along our west coast, our bases for their bombers etc.

Pak Radars- since when has that been an issue for the US- remeber OBL raid. Also, if US Hornets launch an attack from the Arabian sea from their CBG and simultanouesly, US Falcons attack from Indian bases, how long due you think the Paki AF will lsat- a couple of hours at best. However, when anihilation is nigh, the danger is that the Pakis may resort to lobbing a few missiles on India out of frustration.....and that is going to be the deterrent for GOI to offer any support, at least overtly, to the US.

the only way I see this working is if Indian commits to troops wholeheartedly and the US and India launch a massive blitzkrieg that completely redifens the meaning of shock and awe- Israel may also chip in , esp thru covert ops behind enemy lines in taking out "key" installations. and of course, Russian involvement will be needed to keep China at bay- kind of a "if you step in, we step in" Russia is strong enuf even today for this threat to matter.

but at the end of the day, I dont see any of this coming true......would love for it to happen, but not holding my breath.

and how to u plan to enter paki after using Indian depots and are bases...??

how can u compare pakistan western border with eastern...? i said earlier also that 3/4th of paki radars are on are side of the border..which means any incursion can be challenged within sec...hell they will term this as Indian aggression!!

see i dont know how they will do it...but if they use any Indian bases or help that will mean full war by paki..GoI should have guts to take the aggression head on...because all the countries u mentioned are miles away from pakistan threat...it has to be very well thought out plan..

 

[arya]

and how to u plan to enter paki after using Indian depots and are bases...??

how can u compare pakistan western border with eastern...? i said earlier also that 3/4th of paki radars are on are side of the border..which means any incursion can be challenged within sec...hell they will term this as Indian aggression!!

see i dont know how they will do it...but if they use any Indian bases or help that will mean full war by paki..GoI should have guts to take the aggression head on...because all the countries u mentioned are miles away from pakistan threat...it has to be very well thought out plan..

use china policy help Afghanistan give them weapons , money , support ,etc

have you heard disputed land between them ,pakistan occupied area

 

[civfanatic]

You think that after what a 15 kiloton nuke did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it ought not be over-rated? That too when we have super megaton range nukes these days.

Which did more damage in terms of infrastructure destroyed and lives lost: the conventional fire-bombing of Tokyo or the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Pakistan does not have megaton-size nukes or anything above 50kt.

 

[The Messiah]

This is fairy tale thinking. If the yanks wanted pak to have no nukes then they wouldn't have turned a blind eye when they were building it.