The Syrian Crisis

pmaitra

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^^

There is no evidence that UK armed the Syrian Rebels, but there is evidence that Turkey, along with KSA, armed the Syrian Rebels.

There is evidence that Turkey violated Syrian airspace and there is evidence that Turkey called a NATO meeting after the aeroplane was shot down by Syria. So there is a possibility of culpability of some NATO countries. UK is part of NATO.
 

Scalieback

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^^

There is no evidence that UK armed the Syrian Rebels, but there is evidence that Turkey, along with KSA, armed the Syrian Rebels.
I'm not disputing that or even S Arabian.

There is evidence that Turkey violated Syrian airspace and there is evidence that Turkey called a NATO meeting after the aeroplane was shot down by Syria. So there is a possibility of culpability of some NATO countries. UK is part of NATO.
There is evidence that a plane on a training mission was shot down for possibly violating Syrian airspace for a very short while. Rather an overreaction in anyone's book.

Turkey called a meeting of NATO after the aircraft incident (and having its border shelled).. Looking for a bit of solidarity and probably saying "look do something before we're drawn into this mess"

NATO is an alliance but it's so far fetched to say that CIA and MI6 staged the arab spring. You might as well say the ISI is responsible for Japan bombing Pearl Harbour.

What would Britain, US and the remainder of the west have to gain if instead of one country that supports terrorism covertly we get a load of countries that support terrorism overtly? What has been gained by the west in Egypt being controlled by the muslim brotherhood?
 

The Messiah

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#syria

Twenty armed men have been captured in Naher Aisheh in #Damascus. Four armed men were injured, among them a Jordanian armed man. Weapons and computer devices were also siezed.

#syria

Armed forces clashed with a terrorist armed group in Al-Rami area , which resulted in killing a number of terrorists .

#syria

competent authorities foiled an infiltration attempt by a a terrorist armed group from the Lebanese territories towards Syria from Al Jousieh ,inflicting heavy losses among its members.

#syria SANA l Tunisian Report: Tunisian Young Man Killed in al-Midan Neighborhood

Jul 21, 2012

TUNIS, (SANA)_Tunisian reports said that al-Qaeda-linked young man was killed during the military campaign to cleanse al-Midan neighborhood of armed terrorist groups.

The reports indicated that the Tunisian young man, Marwan Ashouri, formerly a resident in al-Saijoumy neighborhood in Tunis, travelled to Syria to join ''Jihad".

The reports indicated that the young man was a member of the salafi Jihadist movement before joining al-Qaeda-linked "Nusrat al-Sham Front" in Syria.

The reports considered Marwan Ashouri another victim of religion-traders who lure young men and exploit their fervor in futile battles.

The competent authorities arrested a number of Tunisians who sneaked to Syria via Turkey.
free syrian army my ass!!!
 
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spikey360

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What would Britain, US and the remainder of the west have to gain if instead of one country that supports terrorism covertly we get a load of countries that support terrorism overtly? What has been gained by the west in Egypt being controlled by the muslim brotherhood?
Unclear about Egypt, but France sure gained a lot of contracts for rebuilding Libya after it pounded half of the country to dust.
Ofcourse, the west could not do much in Egypt. It tried to put up El Baradei as its puppet, but apprently, Egyptians weren't as gullible as the Libyans. The West is in a tight spot now that millions of dollars worth of investment in form of propaganda and funding the opposition has been neutralised by Morsi. Now they're up against an Islamist Egypt which is posturing against West's lady love Israel. That's the only thing you people have learnt, making enemies. Don't say you've not gained anything, atleast you've gained some enemies who are going to "go nuclear" and have "huge cache of chemical weapons".
 

Scalieback

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Unclear about Egypt, but France sure gained a lot of contracts for rebuilding Libya after it pounded half of the country to dust.
Ofcourse, the west could not do much in Egypt
Good old French, probably selling them arms now.

It tried to put up El Baradei as its puppet, but apprently, Egyptians weren't as gullible as the Libyans. The West is in a tight spot now that millions of dollars worth of investment in form of propaganda and funding the opposition has been neutralised by Morsi. Now they're up against an Islamist Egypt which is posturing against West's lady love Israel.
Source?

As for Israel, I'm sure they're quaking in their boots ;)

That's the only thing you people have learnt, making enemies. Don't say you've not gained anything, atleast you've gained some enemies who are going to "go nuclear" and have "huge cache of chemical weapons".
That's what I've been saying earlier. What have we had to gain by the arab spring? Nothing. So why do some people think it's a CIA/MI6 plot?
 

pack leader

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Unclear about Egypt, but France sure gained a lot of contracts for rebuilding Libya after it pounded half of the country to dust.
Ofcourse, the west could not do much in Egypt. It tried to put up El Baradei as its puppet, but apprently, Egyptians weren't as gullible as the Libyans. The West is in a tight spot now that millions of dollars worth of investment in form of propaganda and funding the opposition has been neutralised by Morsi. Now they're up against an Islamist Egypt which is posturing against West's lady love Israel. That's the only thing you people have learnt, making enemies. Don't say you've not gained anything, atleast you've gained some enemies who are going to "go nuclear" and have "huge cache of chemical weapons".
you are the most ignorant Indian on the WWW
Syria is no longer a sovereign state
Egypt is broke and unstable
Jordan is a vassal state
long live the second Israeli empire
 

pmaitra

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I'm not disputing that or even S Arabian.
Thanks.


There is evidence that a plane on a training mission was shot down for possibly violating Syrian airspace for a very short while. Rather an overreaction in anyone's book.
What is a possibility for you is certainty for me, and I might as well refrain on commenting on your reluctance to acknowledge the violation of airspace. Syria did the right thing.

Turkey called a meeting of NATO after the aircraft incident (and having its border shelled).. Looking for a bit of solidarity and probably saying "look do something before we're drawn into this mess"
Turkey had its border shelled after it has been harbouring terrorists and Arab mercenaries and smuggling them, and weapons into Syria in the garb of 'Syrian protesters.' Turkey was rightly shelled.

NATO is an alliance but it's so far fetched to say that CIA and MI6 staged the arab spring. You might as well say the ISI is responsible for Japan bombing Pearl Harbour.
CIA and MI6 was undoubtedly sending in ships and supplying weapons to the rebels at Benghazi, but that is a different topic. I will have to ignore the ISI part because I am certain why you are giving that as an example.

What would Britain, US and the remainder of the west have to gain if instead of one country that supports terrorism covertly we get a load of countries that support terrorism overtly? What has been gained by the west in Egypt being controlled by the muslim brotherhood?
  • Foothold in Syria.
  • A wide open place to host missiles targeting Russia.
  • Launching pad for an invasion of Iran, and consequent looting of their oil wealth.


Apropos the last point, there is a thread you might enjoy: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...overed-atlantic-confiscated-british-govt.html
 

Scalieback

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What is a possibility for you is certainty for me, and I might as well refrain on commenting on your reluctance to acknowledge the violation of airspace. Syria did the right thing.
You'd say the same about China or Pakistan shooting down an Indian plane that ventured a short time in their airspace? Not the done thing. Complete overreaction.

Turkey had its border shelled after it has been harbouring terrorists and Arab mercenaries and smuggling them, and weapons into Syria in the garb of 'Syrian protesters.' Turkey was rightly shelled.
And refugees. Don't forget them. Turkey showed remarkable restraint and still is. If it'd been me I'd have marched on Damascus and ousted the Soviet puppet!

CIA and MI6 was undoubtedly sending in ships and supplying weapons to the rebels at Benghazi, but that is a different topic. I will have to ignore the ISI part because I am certain why you are giving that as an example.
Because it's impossible. You really do like to wear a tin foil hat. What on earth do we gain from making more Islamic hegemonies?

  • Foothold in Syria.
  • A wide open place to host missiles targeting Russia.
  • Launching pad for an invasion of Iran, and consequent looting of their oil wealth.
Really? Stop reading Russian propoganda. If we wanted that we'd've stayed in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Get real.

Not really, you know my view on that. It's called conquering ;)
 

pmaitra

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You'd say the same about China or Pakistan shooting down an Indian plane that ventured a short time in their airspace? Not the done thing. Complete overreaction.
Well, next time Russian jets enter your airspace, do what you think is best. Syria did what is thought to be the best.

And refugees. Don't forget them. Turkey showed remarkable restraint and still is. If it'd been me I'd have marched on Damascus and ousted the Soviet puppet!
Yes, there are refugees, who are civilians and were allegedly escaping the Assad regime. True. There are also civilians massacred by the rebels in the Houla Massacre. I know you have been fed the opposite story. I have refuted that few pages back in this very thread.

Because it's impossible. You really do like to wear a tin foil hat. What on earth do we gain from making more Islamic hegemonies?
That is my question to NATO. What did NATO think when supporting the Mujahideen in Afghanistan? Don't tell me UK did not support. If not with materials, UK definitely gave diplomatic support.

So, what on earth did NATO gain by supporting the Mujahideen against the Afghans and the Soviets?

Really? Stop reading Russian propoganda. If we wanted that we'd've stayed in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Get real.
I considered your request, but will have to politely decline. Russian propaganda is much closer home than Western. ;)

BTW, it is in India's interest that NATO forces stay in Afghanistan, so please stay there.

Not really, you know my view on that. It's called conquering ;)
I invite you to fearlessly put forward your views on that thread. :D
 

Scalieback

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Well, next time Russian jets enter your airspace, do what you think is best. Syria did what is thought to be the best.
Used to happen all of the time and we'd send Lightning's/Phantoms/Tornado's to send them off not a Bloodhound/Thunderbird/Rapier. Complete overreaction and rightly condemned.

Yes, there are refugees, who are civilians and were allegedly escaping the Assad regime. True. There are also civilians massacred by the rebels in the Houla Massacre. I know you have been fed the opposite story. I have refuted that few pages back in this very thread.
Atrocities are commited on all sides. I'm no fan of either side in this, just don't want it spilling over into other countries, hence the call for a ceasefire and UN votes.
That is my question to NATO. What did NATO think when supporting the Mujahideen in Afghanistan? Don't tell me UK did not support. If not with materials, UK definitely gave diplomatic support.
Of course it helped, anything to prod the Russian bear and who knew it would lead to their collapse

So, what on earth did NATO gain by supporting the Mujahideen against the Afghans and the Soviets?
Poking the big bad bear and winning the cold war. Next.

I considered your request, but will have to politely decline. Russian propaganda is much closer home than Western. ;)

BTW, it is in India's interest that NATO forces stay in Afghanistan, so please stay there.
Pravda still spouts the same guff. Should be given comic of the year award. It's garbage. Even when you filter out the propoganda it's still just poor reporting.

Nope, we're going home. We know Pakistan is scared of a strong Afghanistan and a strong India. good luck ;_

I invite you to fearlessly put forward your views on that thread. :D
Why? You know my views. We conquered India and removed some of the wealth to feed our mills and mines and harness the gears of Empire. Whats more to say? You can quote me on there but so far I'm on about four threads and have a life :cool:

Fell for the bait :) Still, another Brit hating thread along with a Churchill hating one. The perpetual circle that is DFI ;)
 
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LurkerBaba

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Forgot this article by WG Ewald which was posted on our front page,

The Syrian Crisis and Chemical Weapons

Some extracts:

When Libya was enduring an intervention by NATO before Gaddafi was overthrown and killed, there was concern that country had an undeclared stockpile of chemical weapons. In fact, the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) found stocks of sulfur mustard agent in January of 2012, as reported by the BBC. Years before, Gaddafi had publicly claimed that Libya had given up its programs for the development of weapons of mass destruction (WMD).

The presence of chemical weapons in Syria is even more likely and their means of delivery more sophisticated. Further, Syria is a smaller and more populated country than Libya, increasing the risk of exposure to civilians, or at some point to UN Peacekeepers and refugees, many times greater. Any major intervention in Syria will require that the threat of chemical weapons be countered. Syria's chemical warfare capability is known to be in a state of readiness and therefore likely a greater threat than any nuclear capability it may have. The presence of Syria's chemical weapons destabilizes the area and may even affect any decision by Israel about dealing with Iran's nuclear threat. Syria is not a member of the Chemical Weapons Convention.

The presence of weapons of WMD stockpiles in Iraq, including chemical weapons, was cited as a justification for Operation Iraqi Freedom. After that operation, efforts were made to locate those weapons, but the results were inconclusive. Possibly Saddam Hussein's WMD were transferred to Syria. Whether or not they were, Syria itself has been producing chemical weapons, which could be used as a last resort by the Syrian military, and there is a fear that rebels would use those weapons if they could capture them from sites where they are stockpiled. Or, the Free Syria Army (FSA) might pass along such weapons to other (terrorist) factions outside the country, perhaps in Jordan, Turkey, Iraq, and Lebanon. Chemical weapons could be used by irregular pro-government factions against the FSA or civilians.




.
Syria's chemical weapons are reportedly being monitored, but their control will remain a challenge in the event of a military intervention. During Operation Iraqi Freedom, tons of military-grade high explosives vanished from within Iraq. Stockpiles of the powerful nitroamine high explosive HMX were subsequently employed against US and coalition forces. If Assad's authority crumbles in Syria, it is unlikely that the country's 50 chemical storage and manufacturing facilities can be secured in the absence of a major military operation.

The threat is clear and the consequences potentially a humanitarian disaster. Even if Syria's chemical warfare agent production and storage facilities could be destroyed by air strikes, the downwind dispersal of the chemical agents or their combustion products could expose thousands of people to injury and death.


After WWII, the United States had an enormous stockpile of the same chemical warfare nerve and blister agents as exist in Syria today. In recent years, the US Congress directed the US Army to destroy that material. That mission was assigned to the U.S. Army Chemical Materials Agency (CMA), with support from other agencies, which has completed the destruction of 27,000 tons of material, in 2.3 million munitions and bulk containers, in the last fifteen years at several facilities in the United States. The mission was accomplished with minimal risk to the public.
....
...
....

Absent the steps described, the threat of Syria's chemical weapons now and in the future will remain a serious one. Such a mission assigned to the CMA will require a significant military mission to support it. Whether such a military operation is to occur in Syria is unknown at this time. Even if a military intervention in Syria occurs, the question of chemical warfare agent production and storage, or deployment, may be ignored.

The opportunity to rid the world of a large amount of chemical weapons may occur in Syria in coming months. Such an opportunity should not be overlooked.
Full article: The Syrian Crisis and Chemical Weapons
 

Scalieback

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Forgot this article by WG Ewald which was posted on our front page,

The Syrian Crisis and Chemical Weapons

Some extracts:

Full article: The Syrian Crisis and Chemical Weapons
Syria Military 'Moves Chemical Weapons To Homs'
Intelligence has emerged suggesting the Syrian regime has moved chemical weapons to the Homs region, a source has told Sky News.

A senior British intelligence official was questioned about claims in the US that several streams of signal intelligence had been intercepted detailing the transfer of a chemical agent.

They said they believed the account to be a "pretty accurate description" of what the UK believes is going on.

Fox News reported a senior US defence source as saying it was not clear whether the movement of the agent, possibly Sarin nerve gas, had been authorised by President Bashar al Assad or local Syrian military commanders frustrated by the ongoing uprising in Homs.

The agents, which may not yet have been weaponised, were moved from previously known stockpile locations, the report said.

Recent investigations by Sky News identified four sites where chemical agents are produced: Hama, Latakia, Al Safira and the Centre D'Etude et Recherche Scientifique laboratories in Damascus.

Storage sites were also found at Khan abu Shamat, Furqlus, Hama, Masyaf and Palmyra.

The US source was quoted as saying the Pentagon was particularly worried because Sarin can be used and released in canisters so there may not be weapons per se involved.

Also Sarin does not remain in the air after an attack so a lot of people could die and the regime would have "plausible deniability" that it had used a chemical agent, the source added.

According to Middle Eastern and other intelligence sources, Syria has the biggest stockpiles of Sarin and VX nerve gas, as well as mustard gas, in the Middle East.

Sir Mark Lyall Grant, the UK Ambassador to the UN, told Sky News he was unable to confirm the reports.

But he added: "Clearly, if there was an suggestion the Syrian regime might start using chemical weapons that would escalate things to a whole other level."

A single drop of Sarin can kill an adult. Some 13 commuters were killed when a religious sect released Sarin on the Tokyo metro system in 1995. A further 1,100 people were injured.

Sky's US correspondent Dominic Waghorn said: "The word of caution you have to add is we've heard similar claims from Israel - concerns about Syria's chemical weapons - and we've heard similar claims being made in London as well.

"This is at a time when the West is trying to put pressure on Russia and China to rally around a concerted effort to remove Assad from power, and anything that makes the situation in Syria look worse is possibly going to help that effort."

He added: "Although we know Syria does have weapons of mass destruction, unlike Iraq which was proven not to have had any after the conflict there, I think people listening to this will be sceptical of intelligence agencies talking about weapons of mass destruction."

Nations including Britain and America insisted Iraq had weapons of mass destruction to justify the invasion in 2003. None was ever found.

The UN Security Council must now decide the future of the mission before July 20, when its initial 90-day mandate expires.

Russia has proposed extending the mission for 90 days, but Britain, the United States, France and Germany countered with a draft resolution to extend the mission for just 45 days and place Kofi Annan's peace plan under Chapter 7 of the UN Charter.

Chapter 7 allows the council to authorise actions ranging from diplomatic and economic sanctions to military intervention.

But Russian Deputy UN Ambassador Alexander Pankin said Moscow was "definitely against" Chapter 7.
Also: Syria's Chemical Secret: Israel Raises Alarm
 

spikey360

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you are the most ignorant Indian on the WWW
Syria is no longer a sovereign state
Egypt is broke and unstable
Jordan is a vassal state
long live the second Israeli empire
I've stopped returning fire to these mindless retorts, but in your case, i'll make an exception.
Let me just say, that you are the most ignorant israeli zionist having access to the internet. And also living in fool's paradise. (Probably Aaretz Israel)

All that you say about Egypt, Jordan and Syria is probably correct. But look at yourself too, you are the worst of the lot. Surrounded by hostile Islamic nations who hate your guts and you live in constant existential threat. This has affected your brain severely as a result of which you are incapable of acting like human beings and your behaviour resembles that of animals. Always howling at other states sovereign actions wrongly thinking they are targetted against you. Barking up a storm yet unable to do much save a nibble here and a nibble there. Then running up to your master US, like a chihuahua, crawling up his body and seeking protection. Frankly, your existence deserves pity not respect.
 

Bhadra

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I'm not disputing that or even S Arabian.



There is evidence that a plane on a training mission was shot down for possibly violating Syrian airspace for a very short while. Rather an overreaction in anyone's book.

Turkey called a meeting of NATO after the aircraft incident (and having its border shelled).. Looking for a bit of solidarity and probably saying "look do something before we're drawn into this mess"

NATO is an alliance but it's so far fetched to say that CIA and MI6 staged the arab spring. You might as well say the ISI is responsible for Japan bombing Pearl Harbour.

What would Britain, US and the remainder of the west have to gain if instead of one country that supports terrorism covertly we get a load of countries that support terrorism overtly? What has been gained by the west in Egypt being controlled by the muslim brotherhood?
Your memory appears to be short:

Or you would not forget the Latin America, Congo, Angola, entire North Africa, South Africa, French Indonesia , Arab world and Afstan where CIA and MI6 have been playing dirty tricks in the name of cold war but actually for economic colonialism. Petrice Lumumba may sound strange to you !

Perhaps you have forgotten those largest Polish, Ukrainian, Serb, Slavs, Georgian, kashmiri and Chechen gangs that your country (MI6) had been sheltering to organise insurgencies and sabotage in those regions.

The British built their empire on nothing but doing all this destabilising the world. Perhaps one needs to remind you that no part of globe where the British ruled is stable even today.
 

pack leader

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I've stopped returning fire to these mindless retorts, but in your case, i'll make an exception.
Let me just say, that you are the most ignorant israeli zionist having access to the internet. And also living in fool's paradise. (Probably Aaretz Israel)

All that you say about Egypt, Jordan and Syria is probably correct. But look at yourself too, you are the worst of the lot. Surrounded by hostile Islamic nations who hate your guts and you live in constant existential threat. This has affected your brain severely as a result of which you are incapable of acting like human beings and your behaviour resembles that of animals. Always howling at other states sovereign actions wrongly thinking they are targetted against you. Barking up a storm yet unable to do much save a nibble here and a nibble there. Then running up to your master US, like a chihuahua, crawling up his body and seeking protection. Frankly, your existence deserves pity not respect.
Israel is doing great thanks for asking
we never were so rich and strong Arabs never so desperate and divided
your jealousy is showing as we dispatch our Arab enemy and you get kicked around by Pakistani trash
 

pmaitra

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Syrian troops driving rebels out of Damascus strongholds

A rebel campaign to "liberate" Damascus appeared to be close to collapse on Sunday as government forces drove opposition fighters out of several of their strongholds in the city.
[HR][/HR]
The elite Fourth Brigade commanded by President Bashar al-Assad's feared brother Maher advanced into the district of Barzeh, forcing the rebels into a desperate rearguard struggle to maintain their foothold in the Syrian capital.

Supported by helicopter gunships, tanks and artillery, the regime's counteroffensive seemed inexorable.

Outnumbered and outgunned, their ranks thinned by a remorseless artillery bombardment, the opposition Free Syrian Army has been forced to surrender a number of key suburbs.

State television reported that Qaboon, one of the city's most fiercely contested districts, had fallen to government forces. Rebel fighters also lost Midan, the area just to south of the capital's historic old city, on Friday.

The reversals indicated that "Operation Damascus Volcano", as the rebels have called their campaign, was faltering badly just a week after its launch.
Source: Syrian troops driving rebels out of Damascus strongholds - Telegraph
 

The Messiah

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Israel is doing great thanks for asking
we never were so rich and strong Arabs never so desperate and divided
your jealousy is showing as we dispatch our Arab enemy and you get kicked around by Pakistani trash
Lets give hamas a few nukes and then we'll see how much kicking you do! Its easy to do the kicking when your enemy has stones to throw at tanks rather than nukes.
 

asianobserve

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... That was a close call. This temporary success by Assad will be the harbinger of worst things to come as he will start believing now that he can still salvage his collapsing power. We may be staring at a protracted civil war that will bring it closer to Lebanon than Lybia. There must be a bitter sweet sense of karma against Syria in the eyes of (non-Hizbollah) Lebanese...
 

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