The Atheism/Agnosticism Thread

[Indx TechStyle]

Wait a minute.

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...-news-and-discussion.64/page-203#post-1455836

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...-news-and-discussion.64/page-202#post-1455745

 

[indus]

Yes and those are called Rakshasas who don't follow dharma and cause trouble to everyone

@Kshithij dude. Take a break from dharma. It wont be an adharma.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

@Kshithij dude. Take a break from dharma. It wont be an adharma.

Oh THAT'S who he is................

 

[Sourav Kumar]

Better summary, I'm done with it.

You were already done man. When you understood from your circumstances that you had to "believe" and not verify things as far as Spirituality/ Sanatan Dharma is concerned, you were done that very moment. Sad, you did not have any influence in life that could tell you that Sanatan Dharma is also about verification and not just "believing". Enjoy your "rational" life.

What to do you think? I didn't? Indian homes may even not have food to eat but religious books occupy a complete rack at least. My parents weren't different either.

Sorry boss, I do not want to get into which books were there on the rack of your house.

About the baboon with 3 tales (tails i guess) in the core of sun, sure, why not? For all I know such baboons can be there at core of sun. How can i rule out the possibility? I am rational, curious and inquisitive - you see!

 

[Indx TechStyle]

You were already done man. When you understood from your circumstances that you had to "believe" and not verify things as far as Spirituality/ Sanatan Dharma is concerned, you were done that very moment. Sad, you did not have any influence in life that could tell you that Sanatan Dharma is also about verification and not just "believing". Enjoy your "rational" life.

You need a particular definition before verification of same.

Sorry boss, I do not want to get into which books were there on the rack of your house.

Those are same as that you want, not books in my personal cabinetry.

About the baboon with 3 tales (tails i guess) in the core of sun, sure, why not? For all I know such baboons can be there at core of sun. How can i rule out the possibility? I am rational, curious and inquisitive - you see!

Again, absence of evidence has to serve as evidence of absence unless evidence of presence is there.

Logics are applied to admit or rule out the possibility like what should be there inside the bodies of baboons etc.. Unfeasible concepts have to be ruled out.

 

[Sourav Kumar]

You need a particular definition before verification of same.

I have experienced through direct action in life that if I shoot a football towards the goal, the football goes towards the goal. Sometimes it misses the goal and goes outside but more often than not it goes towards the goal. Now, let's say you do not want to believe this but you want to verify. Before verification, what will be your "definition" that you want to verify? (Asking to understand your vocabulary and terms that you use!)

Those are same as that you want, not books in my personal cabinetry.

You ASS-U-ME too much man. And the guys who ASS-U-ME too much make an ass of themselves and others who deal with them. I am suffering man. Have mercy.

Again, absence of evidence has to serve as evidence of absence unless evidence of presence is there.

Sure, sure. But I as a rational person will keep exploring for evidence. You can tell me that there is no water on moon. And all your ISRO missions to moon may say that they did not find any evidence of water on moon. But if next year another mission to moon brings evidence that water is there on moon, I will be open minded enough to examine that new evidence. I am not dogmatic you see!

And so, absence of evidence is not equal to evidence of absence. Not by a long shot. :blah:

On the contrary, presence of evidence of (absence | presence) is equal to evidence of (absence | presence). Heh.

Logics are applied to admit or rule out the possibility like what should be there inside the bodies of baboons etc.. Unfeasible concepts have to be ruled out.

And what should be in the core of sun, right? Look man, I am waiting for that day when your spaceship from ISRO will penetrate to the core of the sun and bring a few sample baboons of 3 tales. My mind is open. If that happens, I will listen to the tales of your baboons and accept those baboons as truth. After all what do i know? Why should i be arrogant enough to conclude that my logic is the best in the world?

 

[Sourav Kumar]

What's going on here guys?

Anyway, by my 56th vote majority DFI'ns officially accepted that God is human creation only.

Except muzzies all religions(majority people) accept 'there is NO SKY DADDY',full-stop.

Welcome!

You are a follower of Great Buddha and certainly there is no God. I agree

But you have to agree that I made HeizGud agree that Indian Buddhism was not good enough for India. Thereafter HeinzGud left Hinduism to India and settled happily for his Srilankan Buddhism in SriLanka.

 

[Mangal]

Does any of the atheist here believe in coincidences or "saubhagya", "durbhagya" ?

 

[Sourav Kumar]

Does any of the atheist here believe in coincidences or "saubhagya", "durbhagya" ?

Just to be clear, I am a Theist.

 

[Sourav Kumar]

Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

 

[Srinivas_K]

m not follower of any one but i like simplicity of Buddhism.... Of-course it won't survive in-front of Abrahamic desert cults.

Buddhism neither confirm nor deny GOD's existence, it is agnostic belief!

 

[Haldiram]

Buddhism neither confirm nor deny GOD's existence, it is agnostic belief!

In that sense, what is their core belief about existence? (like Hinduism has (Monism) - Parmatman - Atman relationship). Do Buddhists believe in souls? where do they conceptualize the soul goes after death if it doesn't merge with the Parmatman?

 

[Haldiram]

If these laws & humans are so efficient, then, their creator must be too.

When you put a large number of people into a system, let's call it a nation, over a period of time, some of them will find good fortune in certain fields and outdo the rest in economic aspects. Compound this with the concept of inheritance and you have a situation where a poor boy inherits his father's poverty and debt and a rich boy inherits wealth. Over multiple generations, this compounded inequality causes chasms in society. Call it by any fancy name, but this basic inequality exists in every society because resources are limited and humans are many. Even 'developed' nations have their own class system.

In fact, the word "Caste" itself comes from Italian origin word called "Costa", which roughly translated into "Pedigree". This inequality doesn't stem from Hindu literature or oral traditions. This is a purely economic shift. Right from ancient ages, (until as recently as our economic liberalization in the 1990's) if you dedicated your life to the pursuit of knowledge, like a researcher, or a Brahman in the Vedic era, or a PhD holder in the 90's, you'd typically be poorer than a trader who merely transports goods. It is only after the IT revolution that the "knowledge economy" picked up and having domain specific knowledge could make you rich sitting in an office. Now, this pedigree of engineers/scientists, did they conspire against the pedigree of traders? Did all of them read Hindu epics and say "well..let's invent Flipkart to make those people from the shop owning caste jobless"?

Morality in society keeps shifting with time. In the stone age and medieval ages, if you could slay a mammoth or kill an enemy, you'd be rewarded. Violence in the workplace was considered a virtue. Today even if you shout on your co-worker, you'd be out of favor. Violence is no more a virtue. Neither the stone age man nor the Infosys guy is getting his morality from Bhagwat Geeta. These are economic shifts. They are not linked with theology. A soldier in the modern era isn't typically richer than a corporate employee, despite risking his life. Does that mean the 9-to-5 person has conspired against Kshatriyas?

The "Caste system is a Hindu invention" is a Naxal narrative, Bittu ji.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

I have experienced through direct action in life that if I shoot a football towards the goal, the football goes towards the goal. Sometimes it misses the goal and goes outside but more often than not it goes towards the goal. Now, let's say you do not want to believe this but you want to verify. Before verification, what will be your "definition" that you want to verify? (Asking to understand your vocabulary and terms that you use!)

What is spirituality & why should I go for it leaving materialistic things?
I had try to feel it hard, lie to myself several times but couldn't get anything.

You ASS-U-ME too much man. And the guys who ASS-U-ME too much make an ass of themselves and others who deal with them. I am suffering man. Have mercy.

You asked me to spend money on spiritual books, didn't you?

Sure, sure. But I as a rational person will keep exploring for evidence. You can tell me that there is no water on moon. And all your ISRO missions to moon may say that they did not find any evidence of water on moon. But if next year another mission to moon brings evidence that water is there on moon, I will be open minded enough to examine that new evidence. I am not dogmatic you see!

And so, absence of evidence is not equal to evidence of absence. Not by a long shot. :blah:

On the contrary, presence of evidence of (absence | presence) is equal to evidence of (absence | presence). Heh.

Did you even bother to read complete para?
You're comparing God with water on Moon.
For accepting possibility of anything, should comply with logic?

If God exists,
He must not be independent of time otherwise he can't act,

he should be conscious & alive,

He should have organized part of bodies like humans or more advanced than us which help him to perform different functions because unorganized chunk of energy can't

Most important, he should also have an environment or universe of himself where he was born naturally or somebody might have created him. He should be inferior & weak to something in his own world like we are in our own.

What's point of respecting him & not rebelling even if he exists and at the first place how come you are able to say that you can connect to him with these rituals.

And what should be in the core of sun, right? Look man, I am waiting for that day when your spaceship from ISRO will penetrate to the core of the sun and bring a few sample baboons of 3 tales. My mind is open. If that happens, I will listen to the tales of your baboons and accept those baboons as truth. After all what do i know? Why should i be arrogant enough to conclude that my logic is the best in the world?

Wadda hell? Baboons can never be inside sun.
You are just following yes or no on the basis of sight. It has to interpretted if monkeys could be alive there or not.

A scientist never mixes Lemon Soda & Milk to make nuclear bomb just to check if it can. They follow the inclined direction instead of wasting time.
Study biology, sun's climate inside it and interpret if evolution or migration can take place there. If it can't, no need to open sun's core for baboons. You won't find anything.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

When you put a large number of people into a system, let's call it a nation, over a period of time, some of them will find good fortune in certain fields and outdo the rest in economic aspects. Compound this with the concept of inheritance and you have a situation where a poor boy inherits his father's poverty and debt and a rich boy inherits wealth. Over multiple generations, this compounded inequality causes chasms in society. Call it by any fancy name, but this basic inequality exists in every society because resources are limited and humans are many. Even 'developed' nations have their own class system.

Well said.

In fact, the word "Caste" itself comes from Italian origin word called "Costa", which roughly translated into "Pedigree". This inequality doesn't stem from Hindu literature or oral traditions. This is a purely economic shift. Right from ancient ages, (until as recently as our economic liberalization in the 1990's) if you dedicated your life to the pursuit of knowledge, like a researcher, or a Brahman in the Vedic era, or a PhD holder in the 90's, you'd typically be poorer than a trader who merely transports goods. It is only after the IT revolution that the "knowledge economy" picked up and having domain specific knowledge could make you rich sitting in an office. Now, this pedigree of engineers/scientists, did they conspire against the pedigree of traders? Did all of them read Hindu epics and say "well..let's invent Flipkart to make those people from the shop owning caste jobless"?

I ain't pointing out that. I've problem with what it has been made, no matter what it was, its current face was being defended by @Advaidya Tiwari

Discrimination started (I think) when people tagged some works as small & dirty while other as prestigious.
Second, may be in past kid used to inherit his Daddy's job but what's point of doing it today? Why not right men for right job?

Morality in society keeps shifting with time. In the stone age and medieval ages, if you could slay a mammoth or kill an enemy, you'd be rewarded. Violence in the workplace was considered a virtue. Today even if you shout on your co-worker, you'd be out of favor. Violence is no more a virtue. Neither the stone age man nor the Infosys guy is getting his morality from Bhagwat Geeta. These are economic shifts. They are not linked with theology. A soldier in the modern era isn't typically richer than a corporate employee, despite risking his life. Does that mean the 9-to-5 person has conspired against Kshatriyas?

A little correction, those are values which keep changing, not morals.
Ethics have to be same, altogether goodwill, but their practice improves with increased wealth & contentment of people.

Values have been feeded society through generations, may be they often get defaced.

The "Caste system is a Hindu invention" is a Naxal narrative, Bittu ji.

No matter where the word caste came from, I'll use Varna Vyavastha instead but you can't deny that one of these useless concepts had been conceived by Indian people too. It's still evident.

 

[Haldiram]

Discrimination started (I think) when people tagged some works as small & dirty while other as prestigious.
Second, may be in past kid used to inherit his Daddy's job but what's point of doing it today? Why not right men for right job?

I'm talking about inheriting wealth, not jobs.

Take a look at Bata. In the yesteryears, a cobbler would be considered a less prestigious caste, but that is not the case now. What's the difference between the respect Bata gets versus a street side cobbler? the scale of revenue, despite both of them being in the same profession. But no one dares call Bata a "low" born. People change their outlook based on the economic produce, not caste.

Everyone has to pay their dues. No one gets anything for free, and any person who gets anything for free (Abhishek Bacchan, Rahul Gandhi), it takes only one incompetent generation to lose it all, so if the wealth has lasted for more than 3 generations, their value system ought to have something which other families/communities don't have. There are entire generations of Sindhis and Gujaratis who have made it big, despite not having MBAs from Ivy Leagues. The Parsis were persecuted outsiders with no contacts in India. They settled here with no wealth, no family roots, competed against vested interests, landlords, crony governments, and became rich through their own hard work. That's what gets respect.

No matter where the word caste came from, I'll use Varna Vyavastha instead but you can't deny that one of these useless concepts had been conceived by Indian people too. It's still evident.

It's evident in all countries. Inequality is the nature of human existence. Even Mao tried to bring equality and eventually they went back to capitalism to make their 20 trillion $ economy. You can't say that the state shall equally distribute rations to everyone, while the inputs from individuals are unequal. Enterprising people will always do more, learn more, take more risk, make more money, pass on the wealth to their kids, they will always stick together with other enterprising people, form a self-serving ecosystem to further the interests of their kind. This option is not exclusive to them, it's available to all.

If there was a community which didn't yield net positive gains for the society, generation after generation, it will be on the margins of society. It's not that people will start knocking on their doors to insult them, but not having money in today's money-driven world itself is a form of suffering. It's the responsibility of every individual to learn the skills needed to better their situation. If someone stays on the sidelines while other enterprising people take the risk and build useful things, they'll remain on the sidelines. How long are the enterprising people going to feel apologetic for their own success?

Today we have a situation where the defense minister is not a Kshatriya, the finance minister is not a Vayshya, and the Prime Minister is not a royal decedent, even the priests in our temples are not Brahmins. Are there (sic) "casteist" Indians complaining about it? People value competence.

 

[Haldiram]

Some of his followers made him god but Buddha clearly denied EXISTENCE OF GOD.He never claimed he was son or prophet (or some xyz) of God like middle eastern frauds.

PS: Can't understand the fu* terminology Agnostic,Atheist,Theist,Believer,Non-believer and so on.... There is no SKY DADDY.Full stop.

Even Hinduism doesn't say that there is a sky daddy.

It's a reverse analogy. It's something like "I see this tree, these animals, they exist, these are co-dependent and part of one universal system of which I am also a part; I can feel it with my 5 senses, so it exists and it sustains me so it's important to me, so let's call this whole ecosystem as Parmatman of which my Atman is one part". That's the core of Monism (Advaita Vedanta). This feeling of oneness with nature ought to be "felt", like one feels a sunset or a good song. It's not a person/god in the Abrahamic sense.

The gods and statues were made by people to ease them into this feeling of oneness and to pass on this feeling to the next generation. What separates humans from animals is our sense of imagination and wonder. Otherwise, just like animals, we cyclically breed, pass on our genes and die. It's the songs, paintings, art, philosophy that makes us human.

The temples basically act as a repository for all the things our ancestors felt like passing on. Things which could be quantified, like math and science went into science books. Things which cannot be quantified, like music, philosophy, politics go into abstract books, which we collectively refer to as religion. It's a codification about the nature of existence and the purpose of life and stuff like that. Does a scientist not feel happy/sad? does a religious person not use a calculator? they are not conflicting ideas. They are complimentary. They both have their own place.

This confusion about theist vs atheist is shown beautifully in Life of Pi. Like all of us, Pi is shown as curious about the idea of religion when he is young and tries to sample all religions. His father is a strict atheist like our Bittu (@Indx TechStyle) who tries to tell him that all of religion is fraud. His mother let's him be. When everyone dies and his raft gets stuck in the middle of an ocean storm and there's no hope left for him to survive, he raises his arms and acknowledges a higher power without assigning a name or form. He basically understands the nature of universal values and the futility of human existence, basically bows down to the wrath of nature and understands that if he has to survive, he has to eat. In the beginning of the movie, he is shown as a vegetarian. But post his divine revelation, he kills a fish and sustains himself on the ocean purely based on the faith that he will survive. He doesn't have faith in a magical god. The abstract faith he develops in his own survival changes his value system, influences his real life actions and keeps his body alive. Otherwise he'd have died on the ocean if he insisted on being a vegetarian. He thanks lord Vishnu for the fish he just hunted and survives. This is the first time he is shown assigning a name and form to the nature he just experienced. That is the nature of god in Hindu philosophy. People need a metaphor to address their feelings, so they build temples and statues.

 

[Haldiram]

The real issue here IS

ME desert cults work like an army ... like in army every soldier must obey his immediate high order, they must obey 'state head' and finally highest authority resides Vatican and macca.

Like above said (all terminologies) even Hinduism & Buddhism also became religions because these WAR MONGER CULTS with a codified hate MANUAL given by non-existent GOD.

I don't extend my goodwill to Middle Eastern cults at all. Their "ism" is very unlike the "ism" of Hinduism or Buddhim and more like the political "-ism" of communism and capitalism. It doesn't deal with sublime ideas. It is an instruction manual for the rearrangement of man and material with the combination of economic and legal laws (interest based baking is haram, alcohol is haram, kaffirs are haram etc). It's an outward looking political philosophy which focuses on the "other". Hinduism helps you explore your own inner depths. It doesn't tell you how to manage your money, or how to organize people, or which economic system to use to run the nation. It just helps you make some sense of the weirdness of nature.

Hinduism doesn't have strict codified laws about anything; Neither non-veg, nor alcohol. Take a look at Bhairavnath. He's an avatar of Shiva who was born to protect the Shakti peethas. It would stun you to know that the staple prasad for Bhairavnaath is meat and alcohol.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Good luck now explaining how are you different from Abrahamic retards

I have already explained the difference between Dharma and Adharma. If you are retarded enough to not understand, no one can help

Ya dumb or what? This stupidity is older than Abrahamism and is correspondent not reaction if you can understand English. I wrote that 5-6 times at least.

You are calling Dharma stupidity? Do you have reasoning to say this? Also, you had clearly mentioned that the claim of dharma is - "Abrahamism is bad and hence one must follow dharma".

Anything without reason is jungly. I'm not asking to push them out of discipline but justify thoughts what you are passing on to them.
Human minds should be able to interpret things. Following things without objection is a characteristic of pet animals, not civilised or even jungly people.

And how many times should I tell that Dharma is itself reasoning? Are you being that retard who says that wheel has to be reinvented every generation instead of simply copying the previous generation's idea?

Now, you are with new definition of it.

Moron, this is the meaning of dharma in Sanskrit. The word Dharma comes from "Dhri" meaning preserve and that Dharma is the set of principles that maintain balance in the world. If you did not know thi basic thing and yet you were speaking of dharma, it is your own stupidity.

Again, why should I live apart from my other people, marry within surname and follow fathers profession? And if you think Shudras are so happy, just go & try to live with them.

Bloody bastard, no one is asking you to marry within sirname. I have told this once - Caste is not Varna. I can't repeat this again. If you ever even speak of caste as being part of dharma, then I will consider the conversation to be cyclic and hence end it there

Blended with feelings for emotional people, enforced by logics from reasonable people.

Opinions are enforced by logic from reasonable people? This is the definition of opinion? Are you mentally unsound?

If these laws & humans are so efficient, then, their creator must be too.
Watch the hole video.

Problem with theists is that they think that they are purpose of universe, most scientists on other hands see themselves as by product of universe. Because random processes in universe create random. Who the hell we are to tag ourselves more special than those things.

Who told you that humans are most efficient? Humans are just more efficient than other species on this planet. The world has universe of stars and corresponding planet system.

Do you even know the proper definition of "Random"? Random means those things which are unpredictable by Humans. Humans are not centre of the universe to say that randomness is absolute. What may appear random to a gorilla may appear completely predictable to humans simply due to better intelligence. When you can't even define random as independent from human, what is the point of relying on randomness?

LOL, when they fail, they have excuse, when someone gets accidentally in, they get credit. But they aren't fools for sure.

Who gives excuses? It is you who gives excuses, not Jyotishis. Highly learned Jyotishis don't fail or fail too less (1-2%). Jyotishya does not give away all information. Only partial information about a person is available and that can differ from people to people. Also, certain things in horoscope are conditional upon certain other things which may not be available to jyotishis. But many people tend to due over demanding and ask for specific answers which may not be available in their horoscope. This may force Jyotishis to tell something just to satisfy the client. But if the client is very reasonable one and the Jyotishi is a highly learned person, the right prediction of available data is done.

Happiness is achieved from merits simply.
Learn to differentiate between happiness & joy.

Happiness is just hormonal pleasure. It is best obtained by consuming drugs. One who seeks happiness in life is just a barbarian. If you live to die anyways, why not commit suicide?

How many definitions of Dharma you have?

Right & wrong is more concerned with morals classified into Ethics & values.

Ethics (Reason) are about doing right thing, that is in interest of everyone without harming ant other persons interest regardless of what you are told.

Values (Varying in religions) is doing whatever you are told. No matter what is right.
Different values like anti dating, against pre marital affairs, genital mutilation or preaching religion to children.

Ethics, values etc are not dharma. Dharma is consistent principle that maintains balance. Laws, ethics, values etc are not consistent and generally are based on opinion rather than calculations. So, somethimes laws have to be broken. Dharma is scientific and is based on calculations based on all available data dispassionately without any iota of feelings or opinion. Dharma stays the same across generations because it is the natural law itself.

You are starting to get extremely childish in your views. You recommend that every generation must be made to start from scratch and reinvent everything instead of simply be taught about basic remises and provide them with methods of critical thinking and ask them to find more?

Who even speak of dating, anti-dating etc? These are religions, not dharma. Dharma does not have rigid rules but depends on context. Nothing should be considered in isolation to other events.

Ethics is your made up things and not based on calculation. If the ethics is based on consistent calculation, that itself becomes dharma. Also, sometimes some people have to be harmed because their existence will cause harm to others due to their choice of doing inconsistent (adharmic) things or affiliation with people who do adharmic things.

What's going on here guys?

Anyway, by my 56th vote majority DFI'ns officially accepted that God is human creation only.

Except muzzies all religions(majority people) accept 'there is NO SKY DADDY',full-stop.

God in the form of Abrahmic superman, heavenly entity etc is human creation. Just like a Gorilla can't fathom Quantum Mechanics, God is something that a human can't imagine or understand fully. It is too complex for human mind. Even defining God properly is impossible. All one can say about God is that it is a supernatural power that is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. Anyone who says more than this is mostly making up things

 

[Sourav Kumar]

What is spirituality & why should I go for it leaving materialistic things?
I had try to feel it hard, lie to myself several times but couldn't get anything.

That's fine. You are at a stage of life where you may not need Spirituality (as defined by Sanatan Dharma). And that is perfectly accepted by Sanatan Dharma.

You asked me to spend money on spiritual books, didn't you?

I said that if one has to learn about spirituality, one has to buy books, study them, attend classes and practice the practical methods of spirituality under able guidance. In Indian Sanatan Dharmic System, book and theoretical knowledge are just one part of it. More emphasis is on practical work under the guidance of a master (much like how western scientists work.)

And now I am saying you do not even have to buy books. Entire volumes of Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda is available online. A true seeker would like to go through first one or two volumes of them to check if he finds any logic in what Swami Vivekananda said. And Swami Vivekananda spoke on the basis of Vedanta - the foundation of Sanatan Dharma.

http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/complete_works.htm

Given your Gyani tendencies and argumentative nature, you might give extra attention to GyanYoga.

But if a seeker is not ready to probe such sources and is fine with life, no problem at all. Nobody is shoving down to the seeker as per as traditions of Sanatan Dharma is concerned.

Did you even bother to read complete para?

I have read how you have broken up paras into lines and then replied to those lines separately and I have seen how much folly you have exposed while doing so. Just an example- you said in one of your last posts that Spirituality and Indian Culture are mutually exclusive. When you said that, you exposed that either you debate for the sake of debate and to win the debate by any means or you are just a toddler when it comes to understanding of Spirituality/ Indian Culture.

You're comparing God with water on Moon.

What is the big deal? Any student of Indian Spirituality knows that God can be compared to water on Moon.

For accepting possibility of anything, should comply with logic?
If God exists,
He must not be independent of time otherwise he can't act,

he should be conscious & alive,

He should have organized part of bodies like humans or more advanced than us which help him to perform different functions because unorganized chunk of energy can't

Most important, he should also have an environment or universe of himself where he was born naturally or somebody might have created him. He should be inferior & weak to something in his own world like we are in our own.

Keep dreaming with your logic or read about the logic of other people too.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_...Volume_2/Jnana-Yoga/The_Cosmos:_The_Macrocosm

What's point of respecting him & not rebelling even if he exists and at the first place how come you are able to say that you can connect to him with these rituals.

You have not done PurbaPaksha by studying what the Vedanta says. You have picked up bit and pieces of superstition on what YOU think Sanatan Dharma/ Hinduism is and you are just typing like a qualified typist. Your ignorance shows.

Wadda hell? Baboons can never be inside sun.
You are just following yes or no on the basis of sight. It has to interpretted if monkeys could be alive there or not.

A scientist never mixes Lemon Soda & Milk to make nuclear bomb just to check if it can. They follow the inclined direction instead of wasting time.
Study biology, sun's climate inside it and interpret if evolution or migration can take place there. If it can't, no need to open sun's core for baboons. You won't find anything.

Baboons (scintific baboons with scientific species names as we know them on earth) may not be there at the core f the Sun. But will not the scientist strive to go to the core of the sun to find what is there? And when the scientist gets to the core of sun and if he finds Solar Baboons there, will not he accept those Solar Baboons as truth? As far as I know, that is what western science (some ignorant might come and say that "hey it is not western science, it is just science") is trying to do. Science (as defined by western school) is trying to explore the external world to find answers. The yogi (who is also a scientist) explores his inner nature and try to catch baboons in his own mind.

Western Science is "wasting time" by exploring the external world because there is no end to the external world. The smart Indian Yogi/ Rishi looked inward, saved time and discovered the highest truths many thousand years back.

Since I have wasted my time already here, this would be my last post. I have better things to do than "trying" to educate someone who is a toddler as far as understanding of concepts of Spirituality and Indian Culture is concerned.