Terrorist attack on Gurdaspur - Army takes over OP

[salute]

what? Punjab SWAT was in the lead in the ops... all other units be it form army, NSG and JnK SOGs were on standby.

But yes..had this been hostage rescue mission, rest assured punjab police was absolutely not geared or trained to handle it.

swat means 'special weapons and tactics',
if they were in lead,they were just unloading their weapons,just kill terrorist,

but what if there were people trapped inside something like 26/11,those people would be killed by punjab police swat fire itself.

 

[Neil]

swat means 'special weapons and tactics',
if they were in lead,they were just unloading their weapons,just kill terrorist,

but what if there were people trapped inside something like 26/11,those people would be killed by punjab police swat fire itself.

its not a mater of if they were leading.. the ops was conducted by Punjab police SWAT team.

If we are debating if they were trained to conduct the ops?
obviously they lacked training.. but considering they didn't suffer any casualty i wouldn't say they sucked either.
No state in India is capable of handling 26/11 type attack.

 

[Nicky G]

Most people seem to be missing just how bad this could have been had the bus been hijacked or trains blown up. I see this Independence Day as a symbolic limit for a proper response - else when Modi stands to deliver his speech about a strong nation - it will somehow feel very hollow, to me atleast.

I also agree with some of the earlier posts that surgical strikes unless they take out leadership of these terror groups does not serve our purpose - unless the purpose is to send out a message to the Pakis.

Make no mistake - this is an open dare, it would be a grave mistake if our response if not disproportionate.

We need to remember, as Doval had talked about his offensive/defense...Even in this posture we will miss a few i.e, if 100 stones are thrown at us, 90 we may defend...but 10 may pass through. Rest assured, pakis are getting what they deserve somewhere else. The army and Doval will be doing which is beyond public fodder.

Retaliation for such an attack does merely need to be done - it needs to be seen to be done. Even if it is somewhere in Balochistan - India should be vocal about our support for an independent state.

 

[salute]

No state in India is capable of handling 26/11 type attack.

what about maharashtra police force one ???
they also lack equipment but maybe they are well trained than any other so called swat in india,

 

[icestorm]

You cannot find external solutions to internal problems.No amount of SWAT teams and response squads will be enough for a country that does not invest in human intelligence and relies largely on technology to do the job.

 

[AnantS]

@AnantS what you think saini took 7 hours to reach spot ,was he busy in sleeping with randi????

And you know his place of departure for sure? Do you know this fellow is decorated police officer for his role in anti terrorist operations in Punjab? For All Purpose he is DGP of Punjab.. He could have been stationed in Chandigarh, his place of posting & residence. And if he traveled by road it could very well take him 7 hours to reach Gurdaspur. If he came by flight. It will easily take 1-2 hours, not counting how quickly a helicopter(!?) was requisitioned for him. Soch ke gal kar bai!

 

[Screambowl]

what about maharashtra police force one ???
they also lack equipment but maybe they are well trained than any other so called swat in india,

Police can be effective against local gangsters with light weapons during hostage or assault or busting hideout.

But when it is about highly trained commandos of NSG level who have infiltrated the border with back packs, I do not think police can really be effective against them during hostage situation or big assault.

At most police can contain them and hold them at one position. Be it SWAT! In the end you need black cats and marcos.

 

[AnantS]

Now this is limit. FROM PHOTOGRAPHS ONE CAN MAKE OUT WHETHER A PERSON IS WELL TRAINED OR NOT!? From the short TV Clips armchair experts have determined that Police was wasting ammo by firing into nothing?? Now that is something really special :bs:.

The Armchair experts did not think about Cover Fire/ Suppressive Fire? Or their plan to fire at regular intervals, in order to provoke terrorists and make them fire in retaliation and hence making them expend their limited ammo?

So @salute: Pray!,please educate us how well trained these people seem from these by just looking at these photographs?

 

[Screambowl]

You cannot find external solutions to internal problems.No amount of SWAT teams and response squads will be enough for a country that does not invest in human intelligence and relies largely on technology to do the job.

RAW is literally very weak in HUMANIT and that was causes the problem. One reason is religion. Pakistan's ISI plays the religion card and gets the work done without even paying the money. That's how they work. Where as RAW has to spend lakhs for one small information and that info is also is also not always guaranteed correct.

It is time to motivate youngsters to join the network and become real black panthers. Without that things will remain just like today even after 50 years. And to be honest, even India has to play religion card for this.

 

[AnantS]

Police can be effective against local gangsters with light weapons during hostage or assault or busting hideout.

But when it is about highly trained commandos of NSG level who have infiltrated the border with back packs, I do not think police can really be effective against them during hostage situation or big assault.

At most police can contain them and hold them at one position. Be it SWAT! In the end you need black cats and marcos.

I don't think NSG as an org have ever infiltrated any international border? Its job of SSF/Ghatak(!?)/ParaCo.
<My Armchair opinion>
Even NSG's modus operandi wont have been different, had they been given task of securing terrorists alive in Gurdaspur. The only difference being lack of protecting equipment (in Gurdaspur case) and missing heli insertion operation. To layman, Operation at Nariman house and this at Dinanagar by Punjab SWAT looked similar. In both case there was lot of suppressive fire.
</My Armchair opinion>

 

[Blackwater]

And you know his place of departure for sure? Do you know this fellow is decorated police officer for his role in anti terrorist operations in Punjab? For All Purpose he is DGP of Punjab.. He could have been stationed in Chandigarh, his place of posting & residence. And if he traveled by road it could very well take him 7 hours to reach Gurdaspur. If he came by flight. It will easily take 1-2 hours, not counting how quickly a helicopter(!?) was requisitioned for him. Soch ke gal kar bai!

DGP punjab lives in chandigarh

badal also lives in chandigarh

badal helicopter also lives in chandigarh

airforce base is also in chandigarh

army western command is in chandimandir, panchkula

he has all the means to reach gurdaspur but there was no coordination or will.

hence proved punjab police is not more than bunch of raaandi,daru,murga baaj . they become rusty after 20 yrs of peace.


soch ke gaal kar raha ha bai

 

[Screambowl]

I don't think NSG as an org have ever infiltrated any international border? Its job of SSF/Ghatak(!?)/ParaCo.
<My Armchair opinion>
Even NSG's modus operandi wont have been different, had they been given task of securing terrorists alive in Gurdaspur. The only difference being lack of protecting equipment (in Gurdaspur case) and missing heli insertion operation. To layman, Operation at Nariman house and this at Dinanagar by Punjab SWAT looked similar. In both case there was lot of suppressive fire.
</My Armchair opinion>

true NSG does not do cross border raids. What I meant is these infiltrators are highly trained like NSG and SFF. SWAT is not match.

Nariman house was a hostage situation and more congested area. The fire pattern was very different. It was very accurate and pin point single burst fire followed by pin point automatic fire. And there is where the difference comes.

 

[Blackwater]

BTW nobody is blaming BSF??? its their fault because of their carelessness they sneaked in

 

[prohumanity]

@Mad Indian Proud Bigot,
Mr. Mad, You took my message out of context. When I point a finger to West, I am mentioning the history...lies such as "Iraq has WMD" " Pakistan is our most allied Non-Nato ally" "We need Pakistan to keep peace in ME" and hundreds of such utterings over the years by the West. To understand today's events you need to know historical background. West has armed Paki for decades...just since 2002, West has given $20 Billion in aid to Paki, plus free weapons and moral support .
Yes, now Paki people have turned against after swallowing all the money and weapons they got from West.
India was always undermined by West ...now, situation is changing and likes of Kerry have learned to say "Namaste" knowing India can no more be subdued thru Paki.
Bigot or No bigot, you need to take the context in which something is being said.
As for Paki, I said..peace with Paki is possible IF paki gives up terrorism and becomes a normal peace-loving nation. If Paki keeps using terrorism as a tool, there is no point in talking to them.

 

[Simple_Guy]

Drug network involvement with paki terrorists

In August 2014, the Tarn Taran police had detected a nexus of BSF personnel and international drug smugglers. Those arrested included two BSF jawans. Investigations revealed that the gang worked closely with Pakistani smugglers and had links with Paramjit Singh Panjwar, a self-styled chief of the Khalistan Commando Force and one of the 20 most-wanted persons figuring on the list shared by India with Pakistan.

Some BSF personnel had admitted that while small packets would be thrown across the fence, the smugglers also made use of natural features like streams to slip the contraband across. Small tunnels used by the smugglers were also detected. They disclosed that smuggling would spike during the winter months when couriers would take the cover of thick fog.

Two years ago, the then Punjab DGP (Prisons) Shashi Kant stirred a hornet’s nest, claiming that “drugs are being smuggled in from the Indo-Pak border as several policemen, Customs officials, politicians, members of civil society and BSF officers are involved in smuggling narcotics.”

If there is a drugs angle to this attack, they could have been sheltered by this network before choosing their attack and laying IEDs on railway tracks.

 

[Simple_Guy]

Drug networks links across borders

"The 25-kg consignment was sent by Lahore-based drug lord Imtiaz and the 8-kg package was sent by another Lahore-based drug lord, Hazi, while the present consignment originated from Shehbaj alias Kala. All three seizures were effected within 24 hours of the consignments crossing the border," Saini claimed.

Saini said a tip-off was received that Pakistan-based drug lord Shehbaj Ahmed alias Kala was in touch with Indian smugglers including Angrej Singh, Raj Singh and Joginder Singh by using Indian SIM card from across the international border.

"Joginder owns agricultural land across the barbed wire fencing in the area of BOP Gazal and had access across the barbed wire fencing for agricultural purposes," the DGP said.

"A novel modus operandi was adopted by the smugglers. Joginder informed the Border Security Force (BSF) authorities that he wanted to cut a tree on his land very close to the international border and then started cutting the tree and chopping it into wooden blocks.

"Packages containing the drug were then concealed under wooden blocks by the Pakistani smugglers under the cover of darkness... Joginder retrieved the wooden blocks from his land to his house in village Gazal," the police officer said.

 

[icestorm]

RAW is literally very weak in HUMANIT and that was causes the problem. One reason is religion. Pakistan's ISI plays the religion card and gets the work done without even paying the money. That's how they work. Where as RAW has to spend lakhs for one small information and that info is also is also not always guaranteed correct.

It is time to motivate youngsters to join the network and become real black panthers. Without that things will remain just like today even after 50 years. And to be honest, even India has to play religion card for this.

I would agree with you on that.However,the cultivation of human Intelligence is also about cultivating and investing in relationships.Sources are not condoms.The entire process of recruitment into Intel in India is wrong an totally flawed.We can be the best in the world-If only the process of recruitment changes.

Having said that-I do believe that things at the top are changing and we will get there.Jai Hind !

 

[Neil]

what about maharashtra police force one ???
they also lack equipment but maybe they are well trained than any other so called swat in india,

last i heard they were trained with Israeli help. I wouldn't be surprised if MHA directly funded their training and weapons since they will be first responders in case of an attack.

for a 26/11 like attack... NSG will be primary agency dealing with contingency but Force One may throw up surprise.

 

[Spindrift]

This is how licensed arms among the citizens help in thwarting terrorist attacks. Contrast this with what happened in Mumbai. It's about time that the babus in the MHA and government should realize the importance of law abiding citizens being arms.

He engaged ultras with borrowed ammo for half hour


Ravi Dhaliwal
Tribune News Service
Dinanagar, July 28

The residents of Dinanagar are saluting one of their own, Head Constable Sham Sunder (43), who kept at the bay the militants for a good 30-odd minutes after borrowing weapons and ammunition from one of his friends before security forces commenced the actual operation.

Sham Sunder was on the verge of completing his morning walk when he heard a sudden burst of gunfire originating from the rear of the bus stand. A friend told him that some fire crackers were being burst by “some wayward children early in the morning.” But Sham Sunder refused to believe what his friend told him. His policing instincts—he has been with the force for the last 23 years—told him the sound was not of firecrackers. The high decibel sound was a result of somebody firing from an AK-47 rifle.

He immediately rushed to his second floor residential quarters, located within the precincts of the police station, and knocked the door of his flat. Relieved after finding that his wife, son and daughter were safe, Sham Sunder rushed to the roof and engaged the militants who had been holed up 30 metres away in the old DSP building. Before reaching his residence, Sham Sunder had called up his friend Pran Nath Khajuria and had asked him to hand him over whatever licensed weapons he had. Khajuria ran to his residence and within five minutes he handed over Sham Sunder a .12 bore rifle, a .32 bore revolver and 50 rounds of ammunition.

Armed, Sham Sunder took charge on his roof and started firing at the militants. “They had telescopic rifles. Their aim was good. They seemed to be highly trained sharp shooters. I kept on firing as I knew that the police would take nearly an hour to take out the ammunition needed for the operation from the Malkhana located in the Police Lines. First I used my revolver but then I sensed it was not effective keeping in view its limited range. I kept it aside and started using my rifle,” he disclosed.

His wife Ramal Kanta, son Tushar (15) and daughter Diksha (12) kept on requesting Sham Sunder to come down from the roof which by now had been converted into a mini battleground. The head constable, wearing a kurta pyjama, was not willing to listen. After 15 minutes his movements on the rooftop caught the attention of SP (Headquarters) Salwinder Singh. The SP asked him to come down and get dressed in his police uniform.

Sham Sunder clambered down, crawled into his residence and within no time he was again exchanging fire with the militants after wearing his uniform. This continued for nearly 30 minutes till the first batch of armed security personnel made their presence felt. “I made them waste nearly 50 odd bullets. They were firing from AK-47 guns,” he added.

Sham Sunder has his ancestral house in Dinanagar town but for the last seven years he has been staying in the residential quarters meant for policemen inside the police station. Ever since yesterday’s pyrotechnics, Sham Sunder has become a hero among both his colleagues and residents.

Source: http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/pu...-with-borrowed-ammo-for-half-hour/112623.html

 

[salute]

The Armchair experts did not think about Cover Fire/ Suppressive Fire? Or their plan to fire at regular intervals, in order to provoke terrorists and make them fire in retaliation and hence making them expend their limited ammo?

oh no,no you are the expert as you know a lot about combative tactics,
you are navy seals,

oh please, cover fire/suppressive fire,make them fire in retaliation,make them expend their ammo ???
okay nice, that playstation 'first person shooter' games trained you good,gave you real military knowledge,

Now this is limit. FROM PHOTOGRAPHS ONE CAN MAKE OUT WHETHER A PERSON IS WELL TRAINED OR NOT!? From the short TV Clips armchair experts have determined that Police was wasting ammo by firing into nothing?? Now that is something really special :bs:.

punjab police swat capabilities exposed yesterday that they can spray bullets,
if you think punjab police swat spends their ammo not for nothing,
then how force one training is nothing but just for posing for media,

their training is not for TV,they are trained like nsg pattern,
'pattern' not exactly nsg,
and also not emphasizing on this - but force one commandos trained by israelis commandos,
so explain us Mr.playstation expert what they possible dont know about cover fire for their buddy ???

So @salute: Pray!,please educate us how well trained these people seem from these by just looking at these photographs?

already explained in previous posts that equipments is not what matters most,
but their training makes them swat,

posting again for you,
Terrorist attack on Gurdaspur - Army takes over OP

posted those images to make a point that mumbai police force one is much more well funded both in man power and equipment than punjab police swat if not all the others indian states,
because we were discussing about equipments and vehicles of these swat teams.