TEDBF or ORCA Updates

[Anikastha]

Lately I've seen some posts on here, twitter and other places capping LCA MK1A numbers at 123. I don't see how India can go for so few of them considering the sheer numbers of MiG-21's retired. Even if you assume that all of the MiG-27's & Jaguars used for CAS will be replaced exclusively by ORCAs.

A large number of MK1A's will still be needed for interception and CAP's. MK1A's hold the key to being able to afford a bigger IAF (as per projected squadron strength requirements).

there is literally no confirmation from official source or anything that iaf get more than 120 jets of mk1a

 

[Lancer]

there is literally no confirmation from official source or anything that iaf get more than 120 jets of mk1a

It's not a question of confirmation, it's a question of what makes sense/what's necessary.

Look at the number of just MiG-21's retired then tell me if 123 MK1A's are anywhere close to filling that gap by themselves?

 

[Anikastha]

It's not a question of confirmation, it's a question of what makes sense/what's necessary.

Look at the number of just MiG-21's retired then tell me if 123 MK1A's are anywhere close to filling that gap by themselves?

yeah we need more 120 mk1a....may b currently iaf is looking at getting mmrca first then goes with single engine....because few yrs ago they were optimistic about own engine kaveri...but now that is another story....

 

[Karthi]

Dafuq you pasted this for? Lol

Nope bro I typed the message are you mentioned about Picture?

 

[Karthi]

Lately I've seen some posts on here, twitter and other places capping LCA MK1A numbers at 123. I don't see how India can go for so few of them considering the sheer numbers of MiG-21's retired. Even if you assume that all of the MiG-27's & Jaguars used for CAS will be replaced exclusively by ORCAs.

A large number of MK1A's will still be needed for interception and CAP's. MK1A's hold the key to being able to afford a bigger IAF (as per projected squadron strength requirements).

MK1A is enough for Porks , but to counter Chinki we need more MWF , 83 Mk1A plus 36 Mk1 can take care of joker 17 . But Mk1 edge in tech is not decisive for a victory , we want a superior platform which can completely outperform Both Chinkies and Porks . MWF, ORCA with Unmanned Wingman can do that for us.

 

[Kchontha]

Orca is a vaccine to cure mmrca requirement deseases arising out of the two front areal war scenario confronting india in the future. You cannot manned the whole squadron requirement by expensive shiny toys.

 

[Anikastha]

Orca is a vaccine to cure mmrca requirement deseases arising out of the two front areal war scenario confronting india in the future. You cannot manned the whole squadron requirement by expensive shiny toys.

hope iaf babus understand this n go for desi birds....hope this corona put death nail to mmrca deal...

 

[Bleh]

TEDBF idea is as much a new aircraft as MWF was from LCA. In all likelihood ADA will merge AMCA's rear-fuselage with Tejas Mark2, then do some required optimisations based on the overall concept.

I myself once wondered that they might find it easier to create ORCA by modifying F414 AMCA's rear fuselage with Tejas like delta-wings and canards... So yes, that is not impossible.

I got the idea to use the AMCA & MWF to generate an ORCA concept few as days ago thanks to @Tridev123 @aditya10r.

So I decided to try out the concept & it turned out to be a surprisingly seamless merge!
Although, their respective size is not accurately known, but I resized them by matching the F414 engine common in both. It required literally not a single change in size or length of change to any part.
The wings are getting placed further apart due to wider fulelage & since curve modifications were done.

Comparative GIF.

Also tagging @porky_kicker @Chinmoy @Kuntal @patriots @Rahul Singh

I'm working on another one right now. Will upload shortly.

 

[vishnugupt]

Recently we are talking much about ORCA. How many of us believe this aircraft will ever see light of the day??
In my opinion it will never, because developing 4th generation fighter beyond 2030 without any big requirement is a waste of time and money when we ourself are developing AMCA.
It was typical example of V.K. Saraswat syndrome when navy rejected Tejas they instantaneously created ORCA.

 

[Anikastha]

Recently we are talking much about ORCA. How many of us believe this aircraft will ever see light of the day??
In my opinion it will never, because developing 4th generation fighter beyond 2030 without any big requirement is a waste of time and money when we ourself are developing AMCA.
It was typical example of V.K. Saraswat syndrome when navy rejected Tejas they instantaneously created ORCA.

u cant have entire twin engine category filled with amca ( cost , maintenance)...this is where 4g or 4.5g comes into play which r orca...

 

[vishnugupt]

u cant have entire twin engine category filled with amca ( cost , maintenance)...this is where 4g or 4.5g comes into play which r orca...

Still ORCA is not needed let aside its technicality or superiority
we will have Su 30 MKI, Tejas Mk1, MK1a, Mk2 and rafale which will make 2/3 of inventory ( 4th ++ generation) now you need AMCA mk2 at least 1/3.
For Indian Scenario, we have to have large inventory of 5th or 5th ++ generation aircraft because after 2040 you can imagine where will be China and pakistan. There will always be a risk of two front war until we annex POK

 

[Anikastha]

Still ORCA is not needed let aside its technicality or superiority
we will have Su 30 MKI, Tejas Mk1, MK1a, Mk2 and rafale which will make 2/3 of inventory ( 4th ++ generation) now you need AMCA mk2 at least 1/3.
For Indian Scenario, we have to have large inventory of 5th or 5th ++ generation aircraft because after 2040 you can imagine where will be China and pakistan. There will always be a risk of two front war until we annex POK

with falling numbers of squadrons ( remember we are have shortage of numbers currently)...next is punch thrown by corona will make iaf to look at Indian options than import...if sense prevails for mod babus...

 

[Bleh]

Still ORCA is not needed let aside its technicality or superiority
we will have Su 30 MKI, Tejas Mk1, MK1a, Mk2 and rafale which will make 2/3 of inventory ( 4th ++ generation) now you need AMCA mk2 at least 1/3.
For Indian Scenario, we have to have large inventory of 5th or 5th ++ generation aircraft because after 2040 you can imagine where will be China and pakistan. There will always be a risk of two front war until we annex POK

Dude, all of those are very basic issues has been discussed throughly in the TEDBF & ORCA thread, along with expert comments from HVT & Indranil of BRF. Just read the thread's last 5-7 pages.

 

[vishnugupt]

with falling numbers of squadrons ( remember we are have shortage of numbers currently)...next is punch thrown by corona will make iaf to look at Indian options than import...if sense prevails for mod babus...

For falling numbers we are inducting tejas mk1, mk1a and rafale. In future we will induct MWF if still number falling then produce more MWF then why ORCA. these are all indian options

 

[Anikastha]

For falling numbers we are inducting tejas mk1, mk1a and rafale. In future we will induct MWF if still number falling then produce more MWF then why ORCA. these are all indian options

without super sukhoi update su30 wont have sharp teeth around 2026...don't tell me u have plan to survive on fleet of single engine jets , few rafale...

 

[Bleh]

For falling numbers we are inducting tejas mk1, mk1a and rafale. In future we will induct MWF if still number falling then produce more MWF then why ORCA. these are all indian options

Because we won't have as many MMRCA as expected back in 2010, after this Covid-19 crisis funds will be even tighter. IAF gas too many jets to be replaced by 2035, ORCA is basically a twin-engined version of the MWF to overcome its platform limitations and augment AMCA... discussed in that thread.

 

[vishnugupt]

without super sukhoi update su30 wont have sharp teeth around 2026...don't tell me u have plan to survive on fleet of single engine jets , few rafale...

Why will IAF will not upgrade Su30?? One can abuse Babu or Baby but we are not that stupid we can't ignore such a valuable assets. we Certainly upgrade 30 mki

 

[vishnugupt]

Because we won't have as many MMRCA as expected back in 2010, after this Covid-19 crisis funds will be even tighter. IAF gas too many jets to be replaced by 2035, ORCA is basically a twin-engined version of the MWF to overcome its platform limitations and augment AMCA... discussed in that thread.

MWF is meant to replace medium category aircraft. A aircraft with the payload of 6500kg enough to fulfill MMRCA requirements.
one more thing, Single engine or double engine things are bullshit ( some exceptions ). Capabilities matter more

 

[Bleh]

Why will IAF will not upgrade Su30?? One can abuse Babu or Baby but we are not that stupid we can't ignore such a valuable assets. we Certainly upgrade 30 mki

Su-30 has upgrade deal has been hanging since 2010 because of unavailability of  And after this corona hit, no chance for next 5-7 years, we won't even have money to buy MMRCA!
IAF is apparently planning to retire atleast 50 older Su-30 post 2035, may be replaced by ORCA as bomb-truck for CAS or interdiction. Deep upgrade required may cost as much as whole new flankers, so they decided to get a cheaper to operate, easier to maintain, more available, less fuel-guzzling jet.

Single engine or double engine things are bullshit ( some exceptions ). Capabilities matter more

A twin engined larger version of MWF is significantly more capable, on the fields of either payload & range (like Tejas Mark1 compared to older F404 powered Rafale), or by pure thrust (Jf-17 vs Mig-29).

But now that you've dismissed the whole operational doctrine of IAF & IN as baseless, that leaves nothing more to be said... No point fantasising on improbable scenarios.

 

[Anikastha]

Why will IAF will not upgrade Su30?? One can abuse Babu or Baby but we are not that stupid we can't ignore such a valuable assets. we Certainly upgrade 30 mki

its about cost buddy....after corona govt has many things to do....many sectors to invest money...expect military budget cut next year...apart from major deals like s400 ..rafale...nothing extra will b on our things to buy list....all plans will b pushed back at least 2 yrs ..if worse 5 yrs...