Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E

[Drsomnath999]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

Zelin never referred to a 4th gen aircraft either. And he refers to next gen avionics, not airframe. The only American aircraft comparable to Su-35 is F-22 and F-35 because of the IMA architecture. The other aircraft don't have it from what I know of. Only F-16IN and SH International versions are expected to have IMA systems. So that comparison is moot. If he is referring only to AESA, it won't really do justice to Su-35 since no other aircraft except for F-22 will compare to it when it comes to single role missions regardless of AESA or PESA. However while AESA is common between American 4th and 5th gen fighters, IMA is not. So Zelin has to be comparing to the F-22 at least, if not the superior F-35.

thats true he didnt specifically named 4th gen fighter but what he mentioned that should be taken with priority

The Su-35S avionics and integrated defence system is inferior to "American fighters of the same type"

Now what does that word "same type" mean????

most probably he meaned same generation

& he knows what f22's gen & su 35 gen

& you said

The only American aircraft comparable to Su-35 is F-22 and F-35 because of the IMA architecture

.

sadly that part is also wrong as the IMA ( integrated modular avionics) architecture which also reffered as MPDU by some
is seen by 3 fighters right now F 22 , f35 & rafale .Check!!

Integrated modular avionics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Su 35 processor is at same level with typhoon

 

[p2prada]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

thats true he didnt specifically named 4th gen fighter but what he mentioned that should be taken with priority


Now what does that word "same type" mean????

most probably he meaned same generation

& he knows what f22's gen & su 35 gen

& you said
.

Su-35 is advertised as a next generation system. It is still up for debate but there is little difference between a F-22 and Su-35 avionics wise while there is a lot of difference between SH and Su-35 avionics wise.

sadly that part is also wrong as the IMA ( integrated modular avionics) architecture which also reffered as MPDU by some
is seen by 3 fighters right now F 22 , f35 & rafale .Check!!

Integrated modular avionics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Su 35 processor is at same level with typhoon

Wikipedia has it wrong.

MILAVIA Aircraft - Sukhoi Su-35 (Su-27BM) "4++ Generation Flanker"

The integrated avionics suite is controlled by the central information and control system.

Fighter Aicraft, Su-35

The cockpit of the Su-35 boasts an up-to-date display system, which comprises three CRT indicators, head-up display, display system computers, and the computers of an integrated information system.

Anyway, MPDU is only a Thales abbreviation.

Do you know that IAI Lahav had also developed an IMA system for Mig-21 2100 back in 1995.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

Su-35 is advertised as a next generation system. It is still up for debate but there is little difference between a F-22 and Su-35 avionics wise while there is a lot of difference between SH and Su-35 avionics wise.

Personal opinion do vary
whther u take it on gen grounds or only avionics ground

Wikipedia has it wrong.

MILAVIA Aircraft - Sukhoi Su-35 (Su-27BM) "4++ Generation Flanker"


Fighter Aicraft, Su-35


Anyway, MPDU is only a Thales abbreviation.

Do you know that IAI Lahav had also developed an IMA system for Mig-21 2100 back in 1995.

IMA architecture key component is it's processor

rest is it's databus ,network architecture with softwares

F22/rafale 's processor is more faster /technological adavnced than SU 35 which though boasts of central integrated system is much inferior in terms of technology
so i dont think it's processor is eligible to be called in the same league as of IMA architecture of F 22. rafale & F35
may be WIKI also think that thing in same way

Ya thats true IAI lahav has also developed IMA system for MIG 21 but it's processor is not at that par to be taken into that group

 

[p2prada]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

IMA architecture key component is it's processor

rest is it's databus ,network architecture with softwares

You are confused between architecture and computing power. IMA architecture's key component isn't computing power, meaning the processor.

Even your car can be made with IMA architecture.

F22/rafale 's processor is more faster /technological adavnced than SU 35 which though boasts of central integrated system is much inferior in terms of technology

This cannot be confirmed.

Both F-22 and Rafale use COTS for computers, so does Su-35.

Ya thats true IAI lahav has also developed IMA system for MIG 21 but it's processor is not at that par to be taken into that group

IMA is different from processor alone. Processor is merely one part of the whole.

 

[santosh_g]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

IMA architecture key component is it's processor
rest is it's databus ,network architecture with softwares

Advantage with IMA lies is the ease at which you can write application layer as centralized harware is common. yes, processor is the key component but if you can optimize your application layer ( OS and other top level driver software) according your processor performance it will give you very good advantage compared to top class processor and inferior software.
http://www.cotsjournalonline.com/files/images/694/cots1007sd_wind3_large.jpg

 

[Mariner HK]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

We need Rafale because it fits into a completely different class of capability. FGFA will be inducted at the time Rafale may finish production of 126 jets, so comparing FGFA to Rafale is a moot point.

Dude i accept Rafale s in duiffrent class but 180+ rafale is bulshit. Seriously.Ef is better in any aspect vs Rafale its point 1.And India's bid to replace started before 2000 but RIGHT NOW WE NEED TO THINK LIKE RAL PRO. cHINA BUYING 40+ SU 35 AND FOLLOW ON EXPECTED,Chinese 5th gen fighter is Alive and chinese Carrier born fighter is Alive like coffee smells. So Idia should concentrate on tejas MK2 and mass produce itatleast 300 .Buy rafale not 180+ but 60 Buy EF true 4++ gen fighter for IAF atleast 100 Then but Rafale M for Aircraft carrier atleast 60 Just look at this... Am i wrong ? Rafale is no better than EF and Super sukoi no better than EF and Su 35 and Tejas MK2 no less than mirrage Upgrade nmannn THINK

MKI needs upgrades, so we are not going to skip that, no matter what.

We are upgradin g to super sukoi standard Which is better than Su 30 mki itself

That's a complete waste of time. Su-35 won't be anywhere near MKI avionics wise. AESA + new gen IMA + new cockpit.

Dude see i like su 30 too ok Su 30 mki is no where near to Su 35 ans Super Sukoi WONT be and CANT be better thsn thsn Su 35. Radar of su 35 is double the range of rafale. And if we want we can have su 35 with AESA rADAR TOO.

The MKI needs to be upgraded anyway. If we think about upgrading Su-35 at the same level as the MKI, then the delays will push it into the FGFA timeframe which simply does not make sense when the FGFA is going to be many times superior to the Su-35. You are just making me repeat myself.

We will get PakFa by 2022 We got 9 years down the like and one more point PakFa is not Thunder bolt of god as u talking about. 5th gen fighters has its own draw backs too . Su 35 was made to kill EF TyphoonSo its not a Joke As its for RUSSIAN AIRFOCE I seriously dont know wat made u to think Russian fighters are inferior to French thats a joke

Think of any scenario you want where neither Rafale nor MKI are sacrificed in order to make place for Su-35.

Dude see am not telling to replace all the roles of IAF with Su 35 each fighter as its own role.

According to me, there aren't any. Even if MRCA deal goes into the bin, IAF may open a new tender or opt for another contender in a govt to govt deal. They may buy 2 more squadrons of MKIs to cater for the delays, but that's about it.

Dude serioulsy ? buy MKI? our IAF should be nuts,ut they are clever they gone for rafale and super sukoi. I must tell u all thst Upgrading mirage 2K to somwhate rafale standard buy buying rafale is Diffrent thing altogether hope u understood my wxample buds

 

[Mariner HK]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

You have earlier opened a similar thread about same topic and you were given data and source back then too, Still you keep asking same thing via different threads, SU-35 was born back in 1980s, Its nothing new and its just recently upgraded..

Am on same page cause i dont agree or satisfied with the replies.Chech those tnread i asked serious dobts

Range of the radar is good but not AESA which is multifunction radar and less prone to jam, Rest of the things were mentioned in last post so does other thread opened by you..

Are trying to say Radar with range of 420 km? a dud to AESA radar.? aM SAYING IT AGAIN iF RAFALE came to attact su 35 they need external Tanks no 1.
If sukoi 35 s are sent to intercept they will Lock aND eNGAE RAFALE AT some 160 km as bellow .5s^2 Rsc can be detected at 110 km with su 35 Radar. So if rafale can evade first missile BVR they have to drop their drop tanks.Technically speaking extra tank is equal to extra drag. But su 35 dont need drop tank as its range is double that of rafale point No 2

So no Rafale has no clue who struck it or from where even with it AESA radar which u wnere talkjing like some alien Technology. point No 3

Then Rafale as to go back since it wasted more fuel on evasive manur or without drop tanks its mission is sucidal or incomplete point No 4

U can rebute mr but do so with point by point am happy to know about it What am pointing is REAL Threats.ok not like FANBOYS of Rafale

Yet i agree we need Rafale for diffrent Role like Bombing ,Deep Strike Mission ,MARITIME ROLE or Nuki ng enemies BUT 10000% defo not to gaurd our skies or to invade Enemy like China

 

[Drsomnath999]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

You are confused between architecture and computing power. IMA architecture's key component isn't computing power, meaning the processor.

Even your car can be made with IMA architecture.

Naah !!!

i am not confused i know what i am saying

processor is the nerve centre for IMA whther it is for car or a jet or a bike

If u compare a car processor with a f22 jet processor
is like comparing a desktop computer with a supercomputer's processor

This cannot be confirmed.

Both F-22 and Rafale use COTS for computers, so does Su-35

That is the problem "why cannot it be confirmed"?

as we dont have info about the processor speed or any technical detail about SU 35 's processor unlike F22or rafale which we can get from internet sources easily
as Su35 is relatively new platform

IMA is different from processor alone. Processor is merely one part of the whole.

But it is the brain of IMA

In my opinion, IMA is not a big deal ,it was intially highlighted in the 90's by F22 & rafale , if MIG 21 can have it so what's does that mean will it be equal to f22 & rafale in terms of avionics & self protection suite

Avionics & self defence system was the main topic of discussion for russian AF chief ZELIN not IMA for sure

he meant primarily for AESA radar perhaps with cockpits ,display units ,but Khbiny M is better i think than F 18

F18 block 2 & block 3 have tremendous upgrade potential with much improved avionics suite & self protection suite definitely comparable with SU 35.

BTW It is going to have a new mission computer whether it is going to have IMA architecture or not thats a different thing
Boeing Receives US Navy Contract to Develop New Mission Computer for Super Hornet and Growler

 

[Drsomnath999]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

Advantage with IMA lies is the ease at which you can write application layer as centralized harware is common. yes, processor is the key component but if you can optimize your application layer ( OS and other top level driver software) according your processor performance it will give you very good advantage compared to top class processor and inferior software.
http://www.cotsjournalonline.com/files/images/694/cots1007sd_wind3_large.jpg

BTW
are u software or networking engineer ?? just kidding

See i am not a computer expert but in layman terms processor speed is very important for a performance ,RAM & OS comes 2nd
like pentium 4 comparing it with I core 5or7

 

[santosh_g]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

BTW
are u software or networking engineer ?? just kidding

See i am not a computer expert but in layman terms processor speed is very important for a performance ,RAM & OS comes 2nd
like pentium 4 comparing it with I core 5or7

I am a hardware design engineer

 

[santosh_g]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

BTW
are u software or networking engineer ?? just kidding

See i am not a computer expert but in layman terms processor speed is very important for a performance ,RAM & OS comes 2nd
like pentium 4 comparing it with I core 5or7

yes, you are absolutely right. it does depends on processor speed. but american processors may be advanced Russian processors might just good enough to give what we actually want

 

[Drsomnath999]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

I am an hardware design engineer in one of semiconductor gaint

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

Re-Check those threads about my replies, you are merely repeating same questions even after you are answered..

MKI / SU-35 radar range is 420km also, But AESA is whole different ball game, Spectra have its own tricks..

What is your understanding of AESA .. ?

I am not the one making senerio of SU-35 vs Rafale or MKI..

There are three classes of fighters : Light ( Tejas ) , Medium ( MIG-29, Rafale ), Heavy ( MKI,FGFA )

You are mixing them all and comparing apple to oranges..

Am on same page cause i dont agree or satisfied with the replies.Chech those tnread i asked serious dobts

Are trying to say Radar with range of 420 km? a dud to AESA radar.? aM SAYING IT AGAIN iF RAFALE came to attact su 35 they need external Tanks no 1.
If sukoi 35 s are sent to intercept they will Lock aND eNGAE RAFALE AT some 160 km as bellow .5s^2 Rsc can be detected at 110 km with su 35 Radar. So if rafale can evade first missile BVR they have to drop their drop tanks.Technically speaking extra tank is equal to extra drag. But su 35 dont need drop tank as its range is double that of rafale point No 2

So no Rafale has no clue who struck it or from where even with it AESA radar which u wnere talkjing like some alien Technology. point No 3

Then Rafale as to go back since it wasted more fuel on evasive manur or without drop tanks its mission is sucidal or incomplete point No 4

U can rebute mr but do so with point by point am happy to know about it What am pointing is REAL Threats.ok not like FANBOYS of Rafale

Yet i agree we need Rafale for diffrent Role like Bombing ,Deep Strike Mission ,MARITIME ROLE or Nuki ng enemies BUT 10000% defo not to gaurd our skies or to invade Enemy like China

 

[Mariner HK]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

 

[Mariner HK]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

Well, what can I say. You've got it all in reverse.

The Flanker-H costs about $100 million a pop, and you're seriously expecting the SU-35 to be cheaper? The $60 million is the absolute naked price of the AC. Unless you are going to use it for airshows, you need the weapons, the EW suite and the maintainance logistics.

R u serious? plz check ur data bro. Rafale is 4 ++ gen fighter cost 100 mil and EF cost 105mil $ as per MMRCA tender and Chinese bought Su 35 for 60 mill and India make Su30 MKI at 25+ mill $ Russia make Su 30 at 32 + mil USD $

The Su-30MKI takes a lot of its components from the SU-35, and not the other way around.

What kind of judgement is this? More Components in Su 30 than Su 35? For ur kind notice Su 35 is a fighter 4++ gen better than Su 30 MKI in all aspects and Su 35 is not a RC Plan as u think abut it man.

The funding for the Flanker-H improved the financial position of the Sukhoi coorporation, but saying it was responsible for development of SU-35 is a little too much.

Brooo what u are up to ? Seriously? There would be no Su 35 if Su 27 was a failure mate

 

[Mariner HK]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

 

[p2prada]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

Naah !!!

i am not confused i know what i am saying

processor is the nerve centre for IMA whther it is for car or a jet or a bike

If u compare a car processor with a f22 jet processor
is like comparing a desktop computer with a supercomputer's processor

That is the thing. We are not comparing a car and a bike, we are comparing a car and a car.

Just because LM or Dassault advertises something, that doesn't mean it is the best or anything of the sort.

In the end most of the processors used in such computers for aircraft are very similar. For all you know, they may all be using the same Power PC architecture that's famous around the world today.

That is the problem "why cannot it be confirmed"?

Confidential. Secret. They like to keep it that way.

Anyway, we may be reading too much into Zelin's comments. Whatever the flaws on the Su-35 may be fixed on the Super MKI.

 

[p2prada]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

yes, you are absolutely right. it does depends on processor speed. but american processors may be advanced Russian processors might just good enough to give what we actually want

Everybody uses IBM or the sort.

Even IAF will be using PowerPC based processors in the future.

Russians use TI in their aircraft based missiles from as far back as late 90s.

Computers in the military industrial complex has always used COTS.

 

[p2prada]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

Dude i accept Rafale s in duiffrent class but 180+ rafale is bulshit. Seriously.Ef is better in any aspect vs Rafale its point 1.

Since the Korean competition in 2002, Rafale has been the top contender in terms of technical parameters in every single contest. EF has always come 2nd or worse.

And India's bid to replace started before 2000 but RIGHT NOW WE NEED TO THINK LIKE RAL PRO. cHINA BUYING 40+ SU 35 AND FOLLOW ON EXPECTED,Chinese 5th gen fighter is Alive and chinese Carrier born fighter is Alive like coffee smells. So Idia should concentrate on tejas MK2 and mass produce itatleast 300 .Buy rafale not 180+ but 60 Buy EF true 4++ gen fighter for IAF atleast 100 Then but Rafale M for Aircraft carrier atleast 60 Just look at this... Am i wrong ? Rafale is no better than EF and Super sukoi no better than EF and Su 35 and Tejas MK2 no less than mirrage Upgrade nmannn THINK

We are upgradin g to super sukoi standard Which is better than Su 30 mki itself

EF is unnecessary. It is not fully developed and won't be. If the European economy further deteriorates, EF may never see full development.

Dude see i like su 30 too ok Su 30 mki is no where near to Su 35 ans Super Sukoi WONT be and CANT be better thsn thsn Su 35. Radar of su 35 is double the range of rafale. And if we want we can have su 35 with AESA rADAR TOO.

Su-35 with AESA will be at least 6 years away from the date of order. We don't need a Su-35 with AESA in 2020. Waste of money.

Dude serioulsy ? buy MKI? our IAF should be nuts,ut they are clever they gone for rafale and super sukoi. I must tell u all thst Upgrading mirage 2K to somwhate rafale standard buy buying rafale is Diffrent thing altogether hope u understood my wxample buds

I didn't get anything you said here.

 

[santosh_g]

Re: A frequent statement Super Sukhoi SU-30MKI will be better than SU-

Everybody uses IBM or the sort.

Even IAF will be using PowerPC based processors in the future.

Russians use TI in their aircraft based missiles from as far back as late 90s.

Computers in the military industrial complex has always used COTS.

yes sir, but there can be slight performance difference. so one can fill that gap with very good software