Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[Super falcon]

Except engine Indian upgrade package is better than Russian one.

Dear how is it possible when owner is the only source of better upgrade because their software even if u use your own weapons Russia if needed won't allow to integrate it's software of jet with any western or indian weapons because Russia knows India won't be depending on Russia for future purchases and this Russia will never allow

 

[Super Flanker]

Dear how is it possible when owner is the only source of better upgrade because their software even if u use your own weapons Russia if needed won't allow to integrate it's software of jet with any western or indian weapons because Russia knows India won't be depending on Russia for future purchases and this Russia will never allow

If according to you the Russians won't allow the Integration of other Weopons (Israeli, Indian, French etc) than please tell me how have we managed to Integrate our own Indigenously built Astra BVRs on SU-30 MKIs?

Sukhoi SU-30 MKI already has a lot of Indian Components present in it and also the Mission computer onboard it is "Indian". If the Russians would have not want india to not depend on it than they would have never allowed it.

India will continue with Super Sukhoi, regardless of whether on its own or Russian package.

 

[no smoking]

redesign of airframe needs russian permission as it changes point performance by 15% which voilates contract

You don't need any permission from Russians for the re-designing airframe, that is your plane, you have 100% ownership of it.
However, any potential fault or issues after your re-designing will be your responsibility, they can reject to provide service, maintenance listed in the contract afterwards. It just like you purchased a Iphone, once you open it and modify the internal components or hardware, you are no longer entitle to the warranty of Apple.

 

[Shekhar Singh]

Dear how is it possible when owner is the only source of better upgrade because their software even if u use your own weapons Russia if needed won't allow to integrate it's software of jet with any western or indian weapons because Russia knows India won't be depending on Russia for future purchases and this Russia will never allow

Like Astra, like rustam, like brahmos etc. Mission computer is our's

 

[Covfefe]

Dear how is it possible when owner is the only source of better upgrade because their software even if u use your own weapons Russia if needed won't allow to integrate it's software of jet with any western or indian weapons because Russia knows India won't be depending on Russia for future purchases and this Russia will never allow

MKIs source codes are rumoured to be sold to India. That's why we have integrated all sorts of weapons with them, and DRDO uses that jet as a testbed for the integration of any weapon- be it Indian, Western or Russian. MBDA ASRAAM(to which Russians objected), Indian SAAW, Astra, Rudra, Nirbhay etc, Ruski Brahmos are all integrated with the platform.

 

[SARTHAK]

MKIs source codes are rumoured to be sold to India. That's why we have integrated all sorts of weapons with them, and DRDO uses that jet as a testbed for the integration of any weapon- be it Indian, Western or Russian. MBDA ASRAAM(to which Russians objected), Indian SAAW, Astra, Rudra, Nirbhay etc, Ruski Brahmos are all integrated with the platform.

iaf has a dedicated software lab for su 30mki ,and integration of weapons do not necessarily require source code(as Sameer joshi sir said on twitter about integration of newer weapons) idk how they do it without source codes but he said it when asked about india having source codes or not

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Why don't people clarify all these contract & modification rights related queries in interviews of DoD guys?

 

[Blademaster]

Why don't people clarify all these contract & modification rights related queries in interviews of DoD guys?

Because that's a state secret.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Because that's a state secret.

Yes most of it but i'm not talking about revealing source code or electronic circuitry. They could tell like to implement small thing like MAWS, jammers, more antennas. MKM implemented the MAW-300 but we are still struggling.
Beyond this, the Su-3X airframe is quite complex & Su-57 is already like a flattened & chiselled Su-3X.
Su-35 is the lastest & they have implemented 6-axis MAWS, LWR, jammer, removed canards, haven't modified airframe further. So i don't think there should be so much secrecy for components at superficial level.

 

[India Super Power]

Yes most of it but i'm not talking about revealing source code or electronic circuitry. They could tell like to implement small thing like MAWS, jammers, more antennas. MKM implemented the MAW-300 but we are still struggling.
Beyond this, the Su-3X airframe is quite complex & Su-57 is already like a flattened & chiselled Su-3X.
Su-35 is the lastest & they have implemented 6-axis MAWS, LWR, jammer, removed canards, haven't modified airframe further. So i don't think there should be so much secrecy for components at superficial level.

Sir according to u what should be in the upgrade of su 30mki
Your suggestions

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Sir according to u what should be in the upgrade of su 30mki
Your suggestions

At least bringing it to Su-35 standard.
Metal skin should be replaced with composite if possible.

Wingtip jammers have been implemented.

MAWS, LWR are pending. Implement spherical coverage of RF & EO sensors like DAS Upgrade avionics to sensor-fused level & remove rear cockpit in 50-70% MKIs just like in Rusian jets.

Full glass cockpit pending.

Give a good HMDS.

Being a TVC jet, with 8 AAMs & 75% fuel it would weigh around 29-30T, ideally it needs 120KN+ dry thrust engine to stop & go up rather than losing energy & altitude. But the problem is a 120KN+ engine may need higher dimensions. For now at least AL-41 variant would do.

Because engine advancement is a hurdle to load & performance hence smaller CCMs should be developed to fire after merging. At such close ranges, so much rocket fuel is not required. So if 2 smaller CCMs are fired instead of 1 then Pk increases. Startstreak SAM is a an example, although with different guidance system.

 

[India Super Power]

At least bringing it to Su-35 standard.
Metal skin should be replaced with composite if possible.
View attachment 151997

Wingtip jammers have been implemented.
View attachment 151999

MAWS, LWR are pending. Implement spherical coverage of RF & EO sensors like DAS Upgrade avionics to sensor-fused level & remove rear cockpit in 50-70% MKIs just like in Rusian jets.View attachment 152000

Full glass cockpit pending.
View attachment 152001

Give a good HMDS.

Being a TVC jet, with 8 AAMs & 75% fuel it would weigh around 29-30T, ideally it needs 120KN+ dry thrust engine to stop & go up rather than losing energy & altitude. But the problem is a 120KN+ engine may need higher dimensions. For now at least AL-41 variant would do.

Because engine advancement is a hurdle to load & performance hence smaller CCMs should be developed to fire after merging. At such close ranges, so much rocket fuel is not required. So if 2 smaller CCMs are fired instead of 1 then Pk increases. Startstreak SAM is a an example, although with different guidance system.

View attachment 152002
View attachment 152003

1) I don't think the airframe can be changed to composites even u have written it
2) do you still think su-35 level good for sensors even it was hit by vshorads don't u think something new should be done
3) as u suggested Das incorporation but is it possible in mki

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

1) I don't think the airframe can be changed to composites even u have written it
2) do you still think su-35 level good for sensors even it was hit by vshorads don't u think something new should be done
3) as u suggested Das incorporation but is it possible in mki

1) Please elaborate why it cannot be done. Contract issues? It is not technial challenge. Where there is a will there is a way. Look at China.
2) Jet fighters should not fly low within range of ManPADS/VShoRADS. If Su-35 has metallic skin then RCS would be high & SAM Pk would be high. But composite materials reduce risk like in Rafale. DIRCM can be added just like in Su-57. The wingtip jammers should focus on the SAM/AAM seekers.
3) Possible? Please talk to any engineering student on this. From engineering PoV, lots of 5th gen stuff is possible in 4th gen, that's why we call some planes as 4++gen.
Su-35 has already implemented MAWS in the same 6-axis positions as used by F-22's AN/AAR-56 & F-35's AN/AAQ-37. But how the optical sensors will use digital image processing depends on programming skills of engineers. You see a smart phone & CCTV cameras can identify bodies, face, ID the faces, differentiate b/w hmans & animals.
The Tesla car cam system is so advanced.

Then military grade system is supposed to be much more advanced & smarter. Otherwise people are just lavishly enjoying goverment jobs, facilities, pension, etc.

 

[India Super Power]

1) Please elaborate why it cannot be done. Contract issues? It is not technial challenge. Where there is a will there is a way. Look at China.
2) Jet fighters should not fly low within range of ManPADS/VShoRADS. If Su-35 has metallic skin then RCS would be high & SAM Pk would be high. But composite materials reduce risk like in Rafale. DIRCM can be added just like in Su-57. The wingtip jammers should focus on the SAM/AAM seekers.
3) Possible? Please talk to any engineering student on this. From engineering PoV, lots of 5th gen stuff is possible in 4th gen, that's why we call some planes as 4++gen.
Su-35 has already implemented MAWS in the same 6-axis positions as used by F-22's AN/AAR-56 & F-35's AN/AAQ-37. But how the optical sensors will use digital image processing depends on programming skills of engineers. You see a smart phone & CCTV cameras can identify bodies, face, ID the faces, differentiate b/w hmans & animals.
The Tesla car cam system is so advanced.
View attachment 152009

Then military grade system is supposed to be much more advanced & smarter. Otherwise people are just lavishly enjoying goverment jobs, facilities, pension, etc.
View attachment 152010

I have few doubts
Like u said composite is possible but for that we have to remove the entire airframe right ?
It could be possible but won't it be time consuming and expensive
Can those old engines power such advance avionics

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

I have few doubts
Like u said composite is possible but for that we have to remove the entire airframe right ?
It could be possible but won't it be time consuming and expensive
Can those old engines power such advance avionics

Currently the MKI, MKM, MKA, MKK, etc all these variants with metal skin may suffer for next 20-30 years till they will be in service, means their pilots will get killed either due pilot error, wrong strategy & tactics or simply due to large RCS favoring a missile.
Every country ha different investment priorities. If certain sections of MKI are replaced with composite panels to reduce RCS from certain angles then it can save a pilot's life & the jet. That's 1 reason why the Rafales are so costly compared to a double size MKI. If rafales can be license manufactured then why not composite panels for MKI? If Russia won't allow it then it is dead end otherwise wwe should make 1 or 2 modified test-jets. that's how latest blocks of F-15EX, F-16, F-18 are made. Japanese modified F-16 into Mitsubishi F-2, almost 100 have been made.

Advanced avionics doesn't mean high power consumption always. Today's smartphone is much more advanced than a 2000s laptop/desktop & consumes much less power. Su-35 has already implemented MAWS, LWR, jammer. Su-57 also uses same AL-41 engine but also has 2 DIRCMs + 2 L-band radar on levcons + 2 side looking AESA radars + rear looking radar + sensors on spine, belly, wings, rudder.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

MKIs source codes are rumoured to be sold to India. That's why we have integrated all sorts of weapons with them, and DRDO uses that jet as a testbed for the integration of any weapon- be it Indian, Western or Russian. MBDA ASRAAM(to which Russians objected), Indian SAAW, Astra, Rudra, Nirbhay etc, Ruski Brahmos are all integrated with the platform.

Most of MKI's source code for mission computer was written by HAL and IAF with inputs from ADA and Russia.
Not integrating ASRAAM with MKI is more of an political issue than a technical issue.

 

[SARTHAK]

Most of MKI's source code for mission computer was written by HAL and IAF with inputs from ADA and Russia.
Not integrating ASRAAM with MKI is more of an political issue than a technical issue.

yes i also heard the news ,that iaf once integrated asraam on su 30mki but then had to scrap it due to russia's objection

 

[Super Flanker]

I have been hearing Media Reports from Various sources stating that India had signed a deal for 12 SU-30 MKIs from Russia? Is this true?

 

[Super Flanker]

yes i also heard the news ,that iaf once integrated asraam on su 30mki but then had to scrap it due to russia's objection

I have a question : Did Russia object to ASRAAM Integration after it was Integrated or before it was Integrated in SU-30 MKI?

 

[Super Flanker]

Currently the MKI, MKM, MKA, MKK, etc all these variants with metal skin may suffer for next 20-30 years till they will be in service, means their pilots will get killed either due pilot error, wrong strategy & tactics or simply due to large RCS favoring a missile.
Every country ha different investment priorities. If certain sections of MKI are replaced with composite panels to reduce RCS from certain angles then it can save a pilot's life & the jet. That's 1 reason why the Rafales are so costly compared to a double size MKI. If rafales can be license manufactured then why not composite panels for MKI? If Russia won't allow it then it is dead end otherwise wwe should make 1 or 2 modified test-jets. that's how latest blocks of F-15EX, F-16, F-18 are made. Japanese modified F-16 into Mitsubishi F-2, almost 100 have been made.
View attachment 152023

Advanced avionics doesn't mean high power consumption always. Today's smartphone is much more advanced than a 2000s laptop/desktop & consumes much less power. Su-35 has already implemented MAWS, LWR, jammer. Su-57 also uses same AL-41 engine but also has 2 DIRCMs + 2 L-band radar on levcons + 2 side looking AESA radars + rear looking radar + sensors on spine, belly, wings, rudder.

I remember that few months back, one member had brought up the idea of making a Variant of SU-30 with advanced electronics and Composites.

I mean this is possible provided the Russians allow us (which I don't think so that they will). Also it will depend on how much TOT was provided by the Russians for Assembling SU-30 MKI here in India. I have also heard that till date, we still Import Raw material for SU-30 MKI.