Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[MiG-29SMT]

Is possible to remove the canards on mki, will it help in rcs. su-35 doesn't have canards. j-16 as well.

it is not recommendable, aircraft are designed upon weight distribution in the airframe, the best is new engines and new avionics.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Even if we put a great radar on Su30 mki it still won't cut it in this era. It's truck size RCS is it's bane. The J10c those pakis are buying are very advance in terms of avionics, weapons and RCS reduction. Frontal part of J10c has very low radar cross section combined with an AESA and PL15, it'll be a force to reckon with. Honestly speaking i don't see MKI as our primary air superiority fighter anymore, i'll replace it with Rafale or Tejas Mk2. Somewhere on twitter i saw someone posting that in a testing Tejas' radar detected our MKI even befor our MKI's radar detected the Tejas. Though the J10 has a bigger radar even than i'll put Tejas Mk2 as our answer to J10s of pakistan and china. We don't know how advance china's airborne radars are but i'm pretty sure they're using GaN based TSA antennas for their J20 radars and pretty sure it'll be soon featured on their newest version of J10s and J16s. It's somehow very funny to think that the Russians are touting super sukhois radar upgrade as some sort of out of the earth upgrade even though they're still using those f*king PESA radars. God knows what'll happen to our Sukhoi upgrade but whatever happens i don't want to see another soviet garbage, i mean the russian radar on it

radars need electricity, J-10 has a single engine, Su-30MKI has two Al-31s, twice of the electricity generation capability.

Having an aesa radar does not mean automatically better range, why? well any radar will generate heat, that is electricity turned into heat, wasted electricity, so the radar has loses, add a single engine, sorry but you have believed too much Chinese propaganda.

A modern Su-30MKI can get newer 117 engines and new radars and will easily outmatch J-10.


Of course AESA radars are better to have better flexibility, but it does not mean automatically better range

 

[lixun]

radars need electricity, J-10 has a single engine, Su-30MKI has two Al-31s, twice of the electricity generation capability.

Having an aesa radar does not mean automatically better range, why? well any radar will generate heat, that is electricity turned into heat, wasted electricity, so the radar has loses, add a single engine, sorry but you have believed too much Chinese propaganda.

A modern Su-30MKI can get newer 117 engines and new radars and will easily outmatch J-10.


Of course AESA radars are better to have better flexibility, but it does not mean automatically better range


View attachment 105729

The aircraft uses the engine casing to generate electricity. This is related to the design of your aircraft and has nothing to do with several engines. Generally speaking, twin-engine fighters have larger internal volume and stronger electronic warfare capabilities. The radar depends on the size of the fighter's nose.

 

[lixun]

Is possible to remove the canards on mki, will it help in rcs. su-35 doesn't have canards. j-16 as well.

It is not recommended. The canard can improve the roll performance of the aircraft. After removing it, the flight control software of this aircraft needs to be rewritten.

 

[lixun]

it is not recommendable, aircraft are designed upon weight distribution in the airframe, the best is new engines and new avionics.


View attachment 105727

View attachment 105728

I suspect that the aircraft data is wrong. The su30SM with two-seater, canard and vector thrust has the same weight as the su27, which is very abnormal, and the engine thrust is still the data of the old AL31.

 

[hawwk]

Super Sukhoi will make it a beast.

super sukhoi and su/hal fgfa. i've been hearing this when i used to play rortos aircraft simulator in 5th grade.

they'll deliberately nerf it and put up a heavy price tag.

even su 30 mki is always kept on standby. we still use those age old mig for air combats.
we just need fcking 4th+ gen aircrafts.... that we can afford to use in actual combats....

 

[lixun]

super sukhoi and su/hal fgfa. i've been hearing this when i used to play rortos aircraft simulator in 5th grade.

they'll deliberately nerf it and put up a heavy price tag.

even su 30 mki is always kept on standby. we still use those age old mig for air combats.
we just need fcking 4th+ gen aircrafts.... that we can afford to use in actual combats....

This is not a question of how many fighter jets there are in India, it is a question of the logistics capabilities of the frontline airport.

 

[hawwk]

This is not a question of how many fighter jets there are in India, it is a question of the logistics capabilities of the frontline airport.

not talking about that. we've almost always used mig 21/29 against pak f16. it's a head to head dogfight... we don't use su 30 mki that much in actual combat scenarios because of the cost....
that's why i said that we need more affordable aircrafts 4+ gen to counter the chinese/pak counterpart aircrafts too...

su 30 mki is a very difficult aircraft to maneuver/ fly.

 

[hawwk]

it's like iaf is deliberately using mig because it knows either f16 would be shot down by it, or mig would be shot down by f16.
common indian mentality to use things until it fully breaks down

 

[lixun]

not talking about that. we've almost always used mig 21/29 against pak f16. it's a head to head dogfight... we don't use su 30 mki that much in actual combat scenarios because of the cost....
that's why i said that we need more affordable aircrafts 4+ gen to counter the chinese/pak counterpart aircrafts too...

su 30 mki is a very difficult aircraft to maneuver/ fly.

Leaving aside China, India needs a powerful armored assault cluster to fight against Pakistan, and it needs a powerful air force to provide air cover. This requires a heavy fighter with a large range and a large amount of ammunition.
So what about Pakistan’s negative tactics, to disrupt India’s offensive strategy through small-scale offensive operations. Then India needs a light fighter with little dependence on the airport, strong interception performance, and strong agility, like MIG21, MIG29, J10C,
In India’s plan, the LCA will undertake this task, but the LCA has been severely postponed.

 

[pipebomb]

it is not recommendable, aircraft are designed upon weight distribution in the airframe, the best is new engines and new avionics

su 30mki main drawback is its rcs not engine & radar

 

[pipebomb]

It is not recommended. The canard can improve the roll performance of the aircraft. After removing it, the flight control software of this aircraft needs to be rewritten.

Ofcourse fcs needs to be rewritten with the help of oem. But it will improve rcs and maybe drag. I think its feasible.

Is j-16 or su-35 less maneuverable than mki ?

 

[BON PLAN]

Fun fact is that their radar is a pulse doppler radar used in F-16, so if MKIs would have had BVR edge, Paki F-16s would have been a target practice for the BARS radar of the Flanker, now India has the BVR edge in the form of our indigenous Astra missile and some 130km R-27 missiles.

Su30 lacks a BVR missile with a range in touch with the radar range. It's not the case so far. Its the sole problem.

 

[BON PLAN]

Even if we put a great radar on Su30 mki it still won't cut it in this era. It's truck size RCS is it's bane. The J10c those pakis are buying are very advance in terms of avionics, weapons and RCS reduction. Frontal part of J10c has very low radar cross section combined with an AESA and PL15, it'll be a force to reckon with. Honestly speaking i don't see MKI as our primary air superiority fighter anymore, i'll replace it with Rafale or Tejas Mk2. Somewhere on twitter i saw someone posting that in a testing Tejas' radar detected our MKI even befor our MKI's radar detected the Tejas. Though the J10 has a bigger radar even than i'll put Tejas Mk2 as our answer to J10s of pakistan and china. We don't know how advance china's airborne radars are but i'm pretty sure they're using GaN based TSA antennas for their J20 radars and pretty sure it'll be soon featured on their newest version of J10s and J16s. It's somehow very funny to think that the Russians are touting super sukhois radar upgrade as some sort of out of the earth upgrade even though they're still using those f*king PESA radars. God knows what'll happen to our Sukhoi upgrade but whatever happens i don't want to see another soviet garbage, i mean the russian radar on it

If the chinese radars and birds are so nice, why are they purchased Su35? Why are they trying to purchase Su57? In fact the combat valor of the chinese weapons is totally unknown. Maybe they are very potent, but they lacks of experience and are not known as top quality producers (not like Japan, or Germany for exemple)

 

[lixun]

If the chinese radars and birds are so nice, why are they purchased Su35? Why are they trying to purchase Su57? In fact the combat valor of the chinese weapons is totally unknown. Maybe they are very potent, but they lacks of experience and are not known as top quality producers (not like Japan, or Germany for exemple)

If the United States is willing to sell F86, we are also willing to buy

 

[lixun]

Ofcourse fcs needs to be rewritten with the help of oem. But it will improve rcs and maybe drag. I think its feasible.

Is j-16 or su-35 less maneuverable than mki ?

Generally speaking, the upgrade of the aircraft is to improve the combat effectiveness with the least time and money, and the radar is replaced. The engine is already a very big upgrade. If you want to remove the canards, India might as well buy the su35 directly to save money.
The main source of the RCS value of su27 is that the two inlets can directly see the engine blades.
in fact, in AIM9X, PL10, this fourth-generation combat missile is in service today, WVR is not important.

 

[pipebomb]

There are two way to execute this rcs problem

1} A high power radar that nullifies opponent's rcs advantage & an equally long range weapon to execute the target at that range.( for eg. easiest mod mki can do is to integrate astra or similar class missile, it enhance mki's deadlines manyfold }

2} Optimise mki's rcs significantly.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

If the chinese radars and birds are so nice, why are they purchased Su35? Why are they trying to purchase Su57? In fact the combat valor of the chinese weapons is totally unknown. Maybe they are very potent, but they lacks of experience and are not known as top quality producers (not like Japan, or Germany for exemple)

From the amount of su35 they bought we can easily understand that they are not going to be their frontline fighter, instead they're most probably gonna pitch their su35s against their own j10s and j15s to evaluate the russian strength against chinese frontliners and secondly i'm pretty sure they wanted those Al-41 engines of su35 to further enhance their own program. And the Su57, well i never came accross any reliable source that says that china wanted to buy the Su57. Even if they buy Su57 in distant future than most probably it'll be for their izdeliye engines nothing else. Russians are way behind in terms of avionics than many russian fanboys care to admit. Look at their most advance airborne radar(beylka) and you'll see that it's a first gen AESA with patched antennas. They still using UV based MAWS on their Su57 whereas the world even DRDO has moved on to IR based MAWS. And regarding the chinese technology, well yes they might lack combat experience but they are way ahead of russia.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

There are two way to execute this rcs problem

1} A high power radar that nullifies opponent's rcs advantage & an equally long range weapon to execute the target at that range.( for eg. easiest mod mki can do is to integrate astra or similar class missile, it enhance mki's deadlines manyfold }

2} Optimise mki's rcs significantly.

First one is possible but the second one i don't think so.

 

[Tang]

RCS is not the issue if you have larger Radar & potent BVR missiles.
F15, Chinese Su27 clones, Russian Su30 and Su35 all have similar RCS.
In the case of 4th gen fighter -> With a larger size, RCS will increase but you have option of a powerful radar, so that you could see your enemy first.

So, therefore, Su30MKI with Aesa radar and better BVR can easily shot down even the best of the jets.

Your RCS theory is overblown.