Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[IndianHawk]

Does India have the local tech to upgrade the Su-30MKI fleet into ” Super 30 ” on its own?

A country which pans to develop its own 5th Generation fighter jet and is already is working on the development of Tejas-Mk2 a 4.5+ Generation fighter and already has developed Tejas Mk1 4th Gen fighter and now plans to develop a Mk1A 4++ Gen fighter is still depended on the original equipment manufacturer for upgradation and modernization of what it calls the backbone of its airforce fleet? , let examine if India has local technology to upgrade them in the first place. Since IAF is only planning to upgrade only its avionics and electronics so this report will focus on this aspect.

AESA RADAR: NIIP N011M Bars radar, which is a passive electronically scanned array (PESA) system will be replaced by a derivative of the N036 X-Band AESA radar used on the 5th Generation Su-57 fighter jet. India’s indigenous Uttam AESA radar under development for the Tejas-Mk2 is a scalable radar that can be scaled up or down depending on antenna size requirement. Uttam AESA radar for Su-30 will require a larger bigger antenna which packs more T/R modules to take advantage of bigger space of the frontal nose cone of the Su-30MKI.

New Mission Computer: The Su-30MKI fleet is equipped with Mission Computer cum Display Processor-MC-486 and DP-30MK developed by India’s very own Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) in 1998. The 32-bit mission computer performs mission-oriented computations, flight management, reconfiguration-cum-redundancy management, and in-flight systems self-tests. In compliance with MIL-STD-1521 and 2167A standards, Ada language was adopted for the mission computer’s software. According to DARE it already has developed Advanced computers for next-generation aircraft and one developed for Tejas Mk1 and Mk2 which are PowerPC based computing architecture which is a 64-bit which is a big improvement in processing power.

Upgraded Su-30MKI Cockpit: India’s HAL already showcased newly upgraded cockpit which now features, Two 230mmx305mm high-resolution LCDs with a multifunction control panel with a wide 20°x30° field of view head-up display which brings it at par with the Cockpit of the Sukhoi Su-35. Samtel/DARE will develop new high-resolution LCDs.

Radar warning receiver (RWR): Su-30MKI fleet are equipped with DARE developed Tarang-Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF). DARE now has developed all digital RWR christened ‘Dhruti’ for the Su-30MKI fleet, based on its experience on D-29 RWR developed for the Mig-29UPG fleet.

Self-Protection Jammer Pods: Su-30MKI fleet are equipped with Russian SAP-518 pods which due to poor performance was supplemented with Israeli Elta EL/L-8222 Airborne Self Protection Jammer (ASPJ) pods, which now have been offered with wideband EL/L-8222WB pods. DARE also has developed DARE’s High Band Jammer (HBJ) which has begun dummy trials in 2019. Infrared image search and track system (IRST): IAF’s Su-30MKI fleet is equipped with Russian OLS-30 IRST which soon will be replaced by India’s Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) developed IRST which will be far more advanced and will be tuned to detect stealth aircraft at long range.

Integrated Radio Communication set (INCOM): Su-30MKI fleet are equipped with HAL developed Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A which will be replaced by indigenous Software Defined Radio systems (SDRs) which are being developed by WESEE (Weapons and Electronics Systems Engineering Establishment) jointly with BEL for all fighter jets in IAF fleet. These SDRs will be jam-resistant with secure features.

Radio Altimeter: HAL developed RAM-1701 is equipped on the Su-30MKI fleet which likely will be replaced likely by more advanced RAM-2700A which was developed for Jaguar and LCA-Tejas fleet. They are more countless system which can be replaced by Indian made one.
https://idrw.org/does-india-have-th...i-fleet-into-super-30-on-its-own/#more-224422

We also have ew suite D29 for mig29 which can be implemented on mki and we also have maws in development for mwf. Also Astra mk2 will come in 2-3 years even if derby ER doesn't come.

 

[lcafanboy]

Thread please........

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Map in Syria shows how PAF F-16s missed Su-30MKI


by miles Published April 9, 2020 | By admin SOURCE: MAHESHA M / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG 40 Years old fighter bomber Su-22 was recently in news over Syria after Turkish F-16 fired AIM-120-C5 Beyond visual range missile was successfully dodged by the aircraft over long-range. The incident occurred on March 3rd before that Turkish F-16 was shooting down jets over Syria with AIM-120-C5 BVR AAMs with ease and already had 4 Kills in recent times as seen below graphics. Before the March 3rd incident, Turkish Armed Forces managed to shoot down three Syrian Air Force jets over the skies of rural Idlib, this prompted the Russian military to get involved to limit the SyAAF’s losses. AMRAAM Kills in Syria 2012 onwards shows a particular situation where AMRAAMs were effective only when fired up within 30-40km range and not at DMAX range of over 100km as Pakistani air force wants to show to its people. Back to the Su-22 incident in Syria. Presence of Russian military aircraft particularly when Russian ISR (Intelligence Surveillance Reconnaissance) aircraft like Tu-214R was monitoring airspace and Su-30SM were kept on high alert for intercepts, meant that Turkish F-16 were pushed back and were not able to intrude Syrian air space at free will anymore but on March 3rd a Syrian Su-22 on a bombing mission over are where Turkish backed terror outfits were present prompted Turkish F-16s to come near the border and fire a long-range AIM-120-C5 BVR AAM at a juicy target Su-22 which was over 50km away from the launch F-16 aircraft. According to media reports, Russian Tu-214R monitored AIM-120-C5 BVR AAM launch from the border by the Turkish F-16 and informed the Syrian pilot who was flying Su-22 which allowed him to push his thrust throttle and make a run for back to his airbase. AMRAAM launched over 50km should have had very high pK (probability of kill) against a jet which is 40 years old and lacks modern EW systems to escape, especially for a missile system which claims a range over 100km against fighter jet sized targets but it was not to be, not only 40 old fighter bomber was warned about missile launch direction and was already running back at supersonic speed towards his airbase and successfully managed to dodge the missile. Su-22 is not equipped with advance EL/L-8222 Airborne Self Protection Jammer (ASPJ) pods like Su-30MKI which was armed that day when PAF F-16B piloted by Squadron Leader Hassan Siddiqui fired a volley of AIM-120-C5 BVR AAMs at Su-30MKI ” Avenger-1″ at DMAX. According to Sameer Joshi, ex-Indian Air Force fighter pilot, Siddiqui fired AMRAAMs when Su-30MKI was over 60km away from this aircraft. Su-30MKI ” Avenger-1″ effective deployed chaff and flares along with its EL/L-8222 Airborne Self Protection Jammer (ASPJ) to dodge a volley of AMRAAMs and after making aggressive defense maneuvers. According to PAF, Siddiqui was awarded Su-30MKI kill based on the thermal target being take down by an AMRAAM fired by him which was recorded by the PAF’s SAAB 340 AEW&C. IAF’s Squadron Leader Minty Agarwal who was the Fighter Controller that day said that Su-30 not only survived AMRAAMs even made a run towards PAF F-16s which were already running back after an aggressive push by Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman with his Mig-21Bis. IAF Chief also confirmed that AMRAAMs were fired at DMAX and fake Su-30kill was made only to divert counterclaim made by IAF of PAF F-16 being shot down. Squadron Leader Minty Agarwal and Sameer Joshi have confirmed one thing is that deployment of chaff and flares and the use of Israeli EW pod by the Su-30MKI was one of the major reasons why the aircraft was able to dodge the AMRAAMS. Lack of any evidence presented by the PAF also confirms that what Siddiqui took down was chaff and flares deployed by the Su-30MKI and later missile also being jammed by the EL/L-8222 successfully. Look at AMRAAM Kill-Map in Syria since 2012 shows that AIM-120-C5 BVR AAMs have no recorded claims of shotting down any combat jets or even 50km let alone 60km which Siddiqui has claimed. In fact, since the induction of AMRAAMs in the 1990s, there is no recorded kill over the 60-80km range even when AMRAAMS like C5 version have a range over 100km and most of the recorded kills have been around 20-30km range and over 40km against only against light trainer jet which was not equipped with any internal EW or RWR or even MAW

(@Sayaaf abe BC yeh thread khrab mt kr dusre MIG-21wale thread me hi apni gand marwa)

 

[Ajax01]

@LETHALFORCE we should ban this guy derailing thread after thread on his bullshit

 

[Assassin 2.0]

@LETHALFORCE
Check this @Sayaaf guy i don't mind him being of opposite side i like trolling him but now pork is just destroying every thread check the Su-30MKI thread its full of verbal diarrhea please take appropriate actions. He is working to derail and stop logical conversations.
If he wants to stick with 26 feb episode he should do that only on MIG-21 shot f-16 thread

 

[Neptune]

Lot of balatant lies, propaganda, Bollywood stories. You are as shameless as The BJP media trolls are. Do you even know the range of Pakistan SOW? Get a life dude, that India Stopped pakistan from crossing LOC LOL LOL.

Pakistan dominated Indian airspace while staying inside its own airspace. It made SU-30 run away from Battlefield, It made Mirages to Run Away from Battle field. IAF Was forced to launch MIG-21 to fillup the airspace.

Read up the timelines atleast from the First bomb and SU-30 AMRAAM Firing till the Abhinondon Plane getting shot down. It was a good 15-30 Mint Battle. And Indians fought the 15-30 mint battle with what?

And Here I'm hearing excuses Pakistan brought 24 Airplanes... What are you? A kid? Didnt you brought 24 planes on night of 26 FEB? Is this your excuse? that Pakistan brought 24 so we couldn't fight?

Get a life dude and watch the beautiful video of Pakistan H-4 missile airstrike on youtube to know that they didnt miss. They Hit it accurately.

Tell us how many mighty F-16s fired missiles on SU-30s during the Balakat raid? The answer is zero! In fact, if we go back some years Pakistani pilots could not even find American Chinooks let alone fire on American Chinooks that intruded into Pakistani airspace during the Bin Laden raid, instead incompetent Pakistani pilots were flying around cloudlessly while Americans soldiers were outside a Pakistan military base killing its terrorists/Pakistani nationals/IS assets. Notice how American pilots and military personnel have always made fun of and mocked how pathetically incompetent the PAF was, despite Pakistanis screaming they have the best pilots in the world. Yet in actual combat as well as training, Pakistanis got their clocks cleaned by the Americans every single time. So much for ‘best in the world’!

Pakis boast SU-30 not firing at F-16s but have amnesia about what happened a day earlier when Pakistani F-16 pilots stuck their heads in the sand and failed to do anything other then turn tail when the IAF was hitting Pakistani targets.

There are many logical reasons why the lone SU-30 did not fire on any of the 8 F-16s that day.


1. Altitude:

The SU-30 did not have enough altitude for the R-77 to achieve maximum range. For instance a 110km missiles like the Astra can achieve maximum range at 49,000 feet, while at sea level it’s range is just 21km.

Source for range claims:
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ramraamski-via-india-03072/


Numerical superiority:

The PAF had numerical superiority, as a result the IAF could not go on the offensive just like the day prior when PAF was in the same situation it could not go on the offensive. The IAF SU-30 could not fire because it was occupied keeping two flights, 8 F-16s total, busy, one group at 40,000 feet and one at 10-15,000. The PAF F-16s would go ‘hot’ (engage the SU-30) then turn ‘cold’ (flee before the SU-30 could respond). The SU-30 was in such a situation where it was ‘dodging’ missiles and could not go on the offensive because by the time it dogged a missile from a particular F-16, that F-16 was already gone and out of range while another different F-16 was ‘hot’ and ready to fire again causing the SU-30 to go on the defense again. Again altitude and numerical superiority was also a major factor as to who could and could not fire.


Defensive posture:


The lone SU-30 was confronting two groups of F-16s, one pair at 40,000 feet and another at 10,000 feet. The only mission the SU-30 had was to keep PAF busy and prevent any undetected incursions that could result in an ambush. Even if the SU-30 went to engage one pair of F-16s, the other pair, in theory, would try to ambush. The SU-30 did not fall for the bait, instead the 8 F-16s themselves were cautious and even though they had great numerical superiority none dared to seriously challenge the SU-30 despite the Pakistani propaganda. Instead PAF F-16s were playing a game of carousel and going ‘hot’ then ‘cold’.

So of all the bravado and boasting the PAF did they themselves fled the day prior and dared not challenge Indian aircraft the day earlier when the IAF had numerically outnumbered the PAF. Oddly enough, the next day when the PAF had the numerical advantage they never fully went on the offensive even again even a single SU-30, instead they would fire a missile then flee and when the scales tipped and the IAF started to scramble more aircraft the Pakis threw in the towel and bugged out. Moral of the story is the PAF is too afraid to challenge the IAF even when the PAF has a substantial numerical edge and when the PAF is outnumbered they outright don’t even show up.

 

[ezsasa]

Thread re-opened... Keep it clean boys....

 

[IndianHawk]

With hv thakur tweet we now know that software defined radios are already being implemented in su30 ,lca and jaguars. So one thing is done atleast .
Although sdr are probably Israeli for now.

 

[WARREN SS]

Thread please........

What DRDO should do is To Licence its AESA technology to Private sectors like It Did with DRDO Atags

Private Firms can Galvanize Large s pool of talent that PSU's lack and stronger Work ethics and commitment

Sukhoi Should Be armed With indigenous AESA Whether is takes 2-3 years

 

[IndianHawk]

What DRDO should do is To Licence its AESA technology to Private sectors like It Did with DRDO Atags

Private Firms can Galvanize Large s pool of talent that PSU's lack and stronger Work ethics and commitment

Sukhoi Should Be armed With indigenous AESA Whether is takes 2-3 years

Once tested completely uttam aesa will be outsourced to some manufacturer. Drdo is not a mass manufacturer.

 

[WARREN SS]

Once tested completely uttam aesa will be outsourced to some manufacturer. Drdo is not a mass manufacturer.

Its Goes To BEL
Well BEL Has good Work Ethics But For Further Upgrade And Better development DRDO should start JV with Private firms like Tata Advanced Systems Ltd. (TASL)

https://www.tataadvancedsystems.com/static.php?id=57

 

[Karthi]

Wind Blast Test on Lightweight Integrated Aircrew Helmet and Pressure Breathing oxygen Mask for Pilots

The integrated helmet-mask assembly has been designed to primarily incorporate Helmet Mounted Display and Sight (HMDS) as per user requirement and was subjected to open jet wind blast test at 600 KEAS at DGA, CEAT, France as per MiL 29591/1(AS). The integrated helmet with internally retractable dual polycarbonate visor system (with EMI/EMC complied pre-amplifier meeting RS-03 test) and pressure breathing oxygen mask has been developed by Defence Bio-Engineering & Electro Medical Laboratory (DEBEL), Bengaluru, against specific QRs issued by Indian Air Force.

The helmet-mask assembly was subjected to eight different profiles and has successfully withstood all the tests thereby proving the integrity of Helmet-Mask assembly during ejection. The team led by Dr R Indushekar, Sc ‘F’, DEBEL with representatives of Air HQ (Flying Clothing Cell), Regional Centre for Military Airworthiness (A/C), Director General Air Quality Assurance (DGAQA), Institute of Aerospace Medicine (IAM), Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE) and development partners from industries M/s Shakti Enterprises and M/s Vega Aviation participated in the successfully tests. The data obtained from 3-axes head accelerometer, eye pressure sensors, mouth sensor and bending moment and tensile force transducers in the neck (C1 & C7), was analysed by IAM as per the AGARD technique met the neck injury criteria.

Picture 1:- Lightweight Integrated Aircrew Helmet for Su-30, BISON, MiG 29 and Mirage aircraft with EMI/EMC complied pre-amplifier

Picture 2:- Pressure Breathing Oxygen Mask for pilots perating Su-30, BISON, MiG 29, BISON and Mirage aircraft

 

[AbRaj]

Its Goes To BEL
Well BEL Has good Work Ethics But For Further Upgrade And Better development DRDO should start JV with Private firms like Tata Advanced Systems Ltd. (TASL)

https://www.tataadvancedsystems.com/static.php?id=57

BEL is very competent organisation. Their products are very reliable and sufficiently modern too

 

[south block]

Its Goes To BEL
Well BEL Has good Work Ethics But For Further Upgrade And Better development DRDO should start JV with Private firms like Tata Advanced Systems Ltd. (TASL)

https://www.tataadvancedsystems.com/static.php?id=57

No DRDO should stick with state enterprise or PSU. ---- foreign agents PVT chetoos sellers ain't compromising Indian security.

 

[south block]

What DRDO should do is To Licence its AESA technology to Private sectors like It Did with DRDO Atags

Private Firms can Galvanize Large s pool of talent that PSU's lack and stronger Work ethics and commitment

Sukhoi Should Be armed With indigenous AESA Whether is takes 2-3 years

yes and making sure that tech reaches western hands through there Indian proxies aka chetoos sellers in no time compromising Indian security Hain!

 

[scatterStorm]

This article got wrong information about jammer pods. Infact it's actually the opposite , elta jammer Never really worked on su30 when it's radar was on and with indigenous rwr. Sap518 works and very recently it has been seen on multiple su30mkis.

Sap518 is the Russian one right?

 

[Neptune]

Sap518 is the Russian one right?

Yes, it’s used on the SU-30SM and some SU-35s also have that jammer. It’s reported that in 2015 an SU-30 locked onto a Turkish F-16 for 5 minutes and 40 seconds which is an eternity, then later an unidentified Mig-29 also locked into a Turkish F-16, this time for 4 minutes, 30 seconds. In the first incident it’s reported that Turkish airspace was violated by two aircraft, the SU-30SM and an SU-24. So on both occasions the Turks had every right to shoot back but for some reasons did not or could not. This is perhaps why the Turks are interested in buying SU-35s.

A few months later the Turks ambushed an lone SU-24 by loitering at low altitude then gaining altitude and firing from behind the SU-24, this leads to the hypothesis that it’s highly likely in the earlier incidents involving the F-16s that they were jammed by the SU-30SM/Mig-29 this is reasonable to assume considering the Turks have a history of being trigger happy.

What’s interesting is that if those Mig-29s were Syrian they likely had Belorussian jammers, the dilemma here is that the Syrian Air Force and their Mig-29 squadron are cowards that sit around in their hangers while Syrian soldiers are being bombed so i have a difficult time believing those Mig-29s were Syrian.


Russia has also had a lot about of success in jamming US electronic warfare aircraft, drones and JPS signals, they also jammed various Norwegian and Ukrainian equipment, obviously this was not the work of a SAP-518 but rather from the ground and or dedicated electric warfare aircraft but it just goes to show how effective Russian electric warfare has become.



Here are those jammers on an SU-30 in Syria. The SAP-518 is much larger then most jammers including those of the SU-30MKI and those found on some SU-35s. The SAP-518 are large SEAD type jammers similar to the types found the the F-18 Growler and A-6 Prowler and yes, size matters, the new Jammers for the F-18 growler are large and there are 3 of them.

 

[Hydra3]

Yes, it’s used on the SU-30SM and some SU-35s also have that jammer. It’s reported that in 2015 an SU-30 locked onto a Turkish F-16 for 5 minutes and 40 seconds which is an eternity, then later an unidentified Mig-29 also locked into a Turkish F-16, this time for 4 minutes, 30 seconds. In the first incident it’s reported that Turkish airspace was violated by two aircraft, the SU-30SM and an SU-24. So on both occasions the Turks had every right to shoot back but for some reasons did not or could not. This is perhaps why the Turks are interested in buying SU-35s.

A few months later the Turks ambushed an lone SU-24 by loitering at low altitude then gaining altitude and firing from behind the SU-24, this leads to the hypothesis that it’s highly likely in the earlier incidents involving the F-16s that they were jammed by the SU-30SM/Mig-29 this is reasonable to assume considering the Turks have a history of being trigger happy.

What’s interesting is that if those Mig-29s were Syrian they likely had Belorussian jammers, the dilemma here is that the Syrian Air Force and their Mig-29 squadron are cowards that sit around in their hangers while Syrian soldiers are being bombed so i have a difficult time believing those Mig-29s were Syrian.


Russia has also had a lot about of success in jamming US electronic warfare aircraft, drones and JPS signals, they also jammed various Norwegian and Ukrainian equipment, obviously this was not the work of a SAP-518 but rather from the ground and or dedicated electric warfare aircraft but it just goes to show how effective Russian electric warfare has become.



Here are those jammers on an SU-30 in Syria. The SAP-518 is much larger then most jammers including those of the SU-30MKI and those found on some SU-35s. The SAP-518 are large SEAD type jammers similar to the types found the the F-18 Growler and A-6 Prowler and yes, size matters, the new Jammers for the F-18 growler are large and there are 3 of them.



View attachment 45445

Do we have sap518 jammers? Or any plan to purchase

 

[Hydra3]

https://www.janes.com/article/94143...s-to-upgrade-su-30mki-says-former-air-marshal

The Indian Air Force (IAF) must address the need to upgrade its fleet of Russian-made Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighters, according to a former senior commander of the service.

Speaking at the 4-5 February Electronic Warfare Asia symposium in Singapore, retired Air Marshal Daljit Singh said, "The Sukhoi is quite obviously a superb and powerful platform. In terms of the carriage capability and its range it has great utility but the reality is that the programme originally came online in 1997 and there have been numerous technological advancements since then that dictate an update for the aircraft."

The IAF has acquired more than 250 of the type, most of which have been licence-assembled at the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) plant in Nasik, India.

Singh said two key elements in the Su-30MKI - the radar and the electronic warfare (EW) suite - are falling behind the current state-of-the-art elements and need to be upgraded. The radar is the NIIP N011M Bars radar, which is only a passive electronically scanned array (PESA) system and would need to be replaced with an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar to give Su-30MKI crews a higher level of situational awareness.

The EW suite is a greater challenge in that the aircraft's large radar cross-section makes a robust self-protection capacity mandatory. The aircraft's current EW suite is a variant of the Russian-produced KNIRTI SAP-518 wingtip-pod-mounted system, which can be augmented by the SAP-14 centreline stand-off jamming module.

 

[Neptune]

Do we have sap518 jammers? Or any plan to purchase

This certainly looks like an SAP-518