Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[hit&run]

Abhijit Iyer-Mitra says that the cold and dry air of Russia allows it to achieve the rated range but the hot and humid climate of India greatly limits the performance.

He says that the Elta jammer is not integrated into the other systems like the radar and Tarang and that it interferes with the operation of both as it classifies them as hostile.

He is exaggerating 'know everything' moron.

For him, SU-30 MKI is a dead plane.

 

[Compersion]

always curios know the reason why we stopped using mig-25 (perhaps why not have bought some mig-31s)

and also performance and difference between rafael and su-30mki together with mig-25/31

speed, range, use (would a mig-25/31 with air to air missiles add to value with a mixture of su-30mki and rafales)

 

[Flying Dagger]

always curios know the reason why we stopped using mig-25 (perhaps why not have bought some mig-31s)

and also performance and difference between rafael and su-30mki together with mig-25/31

speed, range, use (would a mig-25/31 with air to air missiles add to value with a mixture of su-30mki and rafales)

SAM + Satellite/better cameras available ended the need to maintain Mig25 class jet .

They had speed and altitude on their side Mig 31 is for interception role similar to what mig 21 bison did for us. While Mig 31 (to be retired by 2028) is pure interceptor with speed close to mach 2.8 /3 . Russia is huge and they needed an aircraft which can travel fast to cover as much ground it can.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Abhijit Iyer-Mitra says that the cold and dry air of Russia allows it to achieve the rated range but the hot and humid climate of India greatly limits the performance.

He says that the Elta jammer is not integrated into the other systems like the radar and Tarang and that it interferes with the operation of both as it classifies them as hostile.

This guy is high on something I guess. Just read this dubious article from him . I should have posted it on Tejas thread or AMCA but I think it suits the discussion we were having.

https://theprint.in/opinion/air-chi...ircraft/303718/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[smestarz]

the biggest failure for Tejas project was that India tried to develop many technologies like Engine, Radar etc which are difficult to develop without proper knowledge, and tried to put them together in one plane.
If Tejas had insisted on Kaveri engine and Uttam radar, it would have remained a model only.

This guy is high on something I guess. Just read this dubious article from him . I should have posted it on Tejas thread or AMCA but I think it suits the discussion we were having.

https://theprint.in/opinion/air-chi...ircraft/303718/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Armand2REP]

This guy is high on something I guess. Just read this dubious article from him . I should have posted it on Tejas thread or AMCA but I think it suits the discussion we were having.

https://theprint.in/opinion/air-chi...ircraft/303718/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Everyone has a bias, the question is are his facts a lie?

 

[Armand2REP]

If Tejas had insisted on Kaveri engine and Uttam radar, it would have remained a model only.

The Flying Daggers would not have an IOC aircraft right now if they had waited on Uttam and Kaveri, this is a fact.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Everyone has a bias, the question is are his facts a lie?

His facts are exaggerated. Yes, Russian engines are less efficient in India's climate, but not as much as he mentioned. He said it only has a range of 600km in India, whereas we clearly saw in exercise Gaganshakti that the Sukhois had far more range than that. They did missions in one end of India, refuelled once, and flew to the other end for the second mission in the same sortie. So obviously the range is still good. His point about the various electronics not talking to each other is also exaggerated. India has used it's own electronics as a third party bridge between western and Russian electronics. Of course, the integration is not as smooth as in Rafale, but still more advanced than anything China or pakistan have.

 

[Armand2REP]

His facts are exaggerated. Yes, Russian engines are less efficient in India's climate, but not as much as he mentioned. He said it only has a range of 600km in India, whereas we clearly saw in exercise Gaganshakti that the Sukhois had far more range than that. They did missions in one end of India, refuelled once, and flew to the other end for the second mission in the same sortie. So obviously the range is still good. His point about the various electronics not talking to each other is also exaggerated. India has used it's own electronics as a third party bridge between western and Russian electronics. Of course, the integration is not as smooth as in Rafale, but still more advanced than anything China or pakistan have.

Of course they are capable of more but due to the high number of engine failures the IAF put that cap in place as a safety measure. In order to reduce the failure rate the pilot is not allowed to fly further than that. Before the safety measures were put in place they were suffering 2-3 engine failures a month.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Of course they are capable of more but due to the high number of engine failures the IAF put that cap in place as a safety measure. In order to reduce the failure rate the pilot is not allowed to fly further than that. Before the safety measures were put in place they were suffering 2-3 engine failures a month.

Don't know. That's a lot of conjecture. Out of all the complaints about MKI from credible sources, range doesn't seem to be one of them. Haven't heard of pilots being restricted to short distances.

 

[Armand2REP]

Don't know. That's a lot of conjecture. Out of all the complaints about MKI from credible sources, range doesn't seem to be one of them. Haven't heard of pilots being restricted to short distances.

That is what he is referring to, either he pulled it out of his butt or it is true.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Everyone has a bias, the question is are his facts a lie?

Actually I have already addressed that

and Good that you have atleast accepted that bias you have for French goodies

Sukhoi have been performing really fine right now. Infact Mig 29 UPG have better availability rate of 65-75% than Mirage 2000.

The reduction in thrust was taken into account during induction itself and there are higher thrust engine also available since a very long period of time.

 

[Armand2REP]

Sukhoi have been performing really fine right now. Infact Mig 29 UPG have better availability rate of 65-75% than Mirage 2000.

Apparently they are performing fine because they have a strict set of safety restrictions. The M2000 has no such restrictions which is why it is the tip of the spear from Kargil to Balakot.

 

[Neptune]

Apparently they are performing fine because they have a strict set of safety restrictions. The M2000 has no such restrictions which is why it is the tip of the spear from Kargil to Balakot.

The Mirage uses a low thrust engine, which generally means better reliability. The East Germans lowered the thrust on their Mig-29s to decrease maintenance and reliability if my memory serves me well.


There is also around 250 SU-30MKI’s vs about 50 Mirage 2000’s. The SU-30s fly half way around the world on a regular basis for vigorous exercises. They are pushed hard on a regular basis, of course they will have more mishaps and failures over the years. Mirage is a great platform but they don’t clock anywhere near the hours that the SU-30s do and they probably don’t get pushed as hard as SU-30s since they are almost exclusively used as strike platforms. The SU-30 is a proven platform, same applies for the Mirage.

During the Balakat strike the Mirages used Israeli munitions and targeting pods, which is obviously not native to the Mirage but something the Indians integrated and something they felt was appropriate for the targets. They could have used the SU-30 for the same role but instead used them for air superiority.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Apparently they are performing fine because they have a strict set of safety restrictions. The M2000 has no such restrictions which is why it is the tip of the spear from Kargil to Balakot.

Not really actually it's the other way around.

During Kargil It was Mig 29 armed with BVRAAM missiles which made PAF hide inside airbase. They provided cover for Mirage 2000 to operate freely.

Similarly In Balakot we had Sukhoi providing cover. Mirage is our only modern strike fighter till Rafale / Tejas arrives in number.

And M2000 are in low numbers that is why IAF take special care of them while Sukhoi /Mig29 are the workhorse .

I always wish we had bought more Mirage 2000 instead of Jaguars /mig23/27 etc. It already have low thrust engine and it also see reduction in thrust in Indian condition . Rafale M88-4Es might address the issue better.

 

[Armand2REP]

Similarly In Balakot we had Sukhoi providing cover. Mirage is our only modern strike fighter till Rafale / Tejas arrives in number.

During the Balakot strike the M2000s flew in a strike package of 12 aircraft, half of those were loaded with bombs while the other half provided escort and jamming. It wasn't MiG-29 or Sukhoi protecting them but other Mirages. As they are data linked the Mirages can talk to each other, the Russian aircraft cannot talk to French aircraft and might shoot them down.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Don't know. That's a lot of conjecture. Out of all the complaints about MKI from credible sources, range doesn't seem to be one of them. Haven't heard of pilots being restricted to short distances.

Actually it's the range which is considered it's best selling point and ability to take long sorties with refuelling.

 

[Flying Dagger]

During the Balakot strike the M2000s flew in a strike package of 12 aircraft, half of those were loaded with bombs while the other half provided escort and jamming. It wasn't MiG-29 or Sukhoi protecting them but other Mirages.

Yes there was a strike package of 12 Mirage But 4 Sukhoi were also there in the sky right around the border to cover and take care of any escalation or challenge by PAF.

Mig 29 weren't part of Balakot strike. I never said that either.

They were providing cover during Kargil 1999

 

[Armand2REP]

Actually it's the range which is considered it's best selling point and ability to take long sorties with refuelling.

Did the MKIs that recently flew to France fly without landing in between? They were flying with an Ilyushin full of spare parts.

 

[Neptune]

Did the MKIs that recently flew to France fly without landing in between? They were flying with an Ilyushin full of spare parts.

Who doesn’t fly with support crews and aerial re-fuelers? You don’t suppose those nice large French aircraft are in those pictures to do dogfighting do you?