Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[IndianHawk]

IAF set to shelve Jaguar engine upgrade, could buy more Su-30 MKIs instead
Jaguar engines have seen a 15-30% reduction in thrust, and the cost of the upgrade is too high. One Sukhoi can perform the same role as two Jaguars.

New Delhi: The Indian Air Force is set to shelve its plan for an engine upgrade of the Jaguar deep penetration strike aircraft due to the high cost involved. Instead, it could go in for additional Sukhoi Su-30 MKIs to replace the aircraft that will be grounded, ThePrint has learnt.

Top sources in the defence establishment said the Rolls-Royce Adour 811 engines of the 1980s vintage twin-engine aircraft have seen 15-30 per cent reduction in thrust. This means the Jaguar cannot carry its full load.

The IAF had planned to go in for an engine upgrade and had selected US firm Honeywell’s F-125IN engines. But sources termed the Jaguar upgrade programme as being an awkward state of affairs.

“The price quoted by Honeywell and the HAL for ‘re-engining’ is just too high. For the price of two such upgrades, we can get one basic Rafale,” a source said.

Currently, the IAF operates a total of six squadrons of the Jaguar. However, in actual strength, there are only five squadrons, as the sixth is not a complete squadron.

Avionics upgrade won’t help
The Jaguar is already undergoing an avionics upgrade — from Darin-I to Darin-III standard — but this programme is seven years behind schedule.

“The Darin-III upgrade is all about avionics and a better cockpit system. However, the problem is with the engines. Since the thrust factor is coming down, the aircraft is already flying with lower load during peacetime operations as a precautionary measure,” a source said.

Sources added that there would come a time when aircraft would be grounded as and when their engine thrust comes below a specific point, as it would put the pilots’ lives at risk.

IAF pilots have a morbid joke among themselves that the Jaguar’s current engines are so underpowered that in case of one engine failing, the second takes the aircraft to the crash site, not back to safety.

More Sukhois
A source said the plan to procure more Sukhois was being considered because it could fulfil a similar role.

“One plan is to order more Su-30 MKIs to replace those fighters that would be grounded. As far as role is concerned, one Sukhoi can play the same role as two Jaguars,” the source said.

“We can’t really afford to ground the entire fleet if the engines become a problem. If we do that, our fighter squadron strength will come down to that of Pakistan. Not to forget that out of those 25 squadrons, we still have some of ageing MiGs.”
https://theprint.in/defence/iaf-set...ade-could-buy-more-su-30-mkis-instead/278687/

1 su30 for 2 jaguars. So for six squadron of jaguar 3 sq of su30mki needed.= 60 su30MKI.

I would rather see 40 su30mki + 40 more lca mk1a to replace them .

But it will eat into mwf orders which was supposed to replace jaguar by 2030.



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[tarunraju]

Since Jaguars are used mainly for ground-attack, I wonder if IAF could opt for Su-34 (mini-bomber) instead of 30MKI. They're practically the same airframe and have higher MTOW (to carry more bombs).So they could stick to the 18x 30MKI airframes, and all additional airframes could be Su-34.

 

[IndianHawk]

Since Jaguars are used mainly for ground-attack, I wonder if IAF could opt for Su-34 (mini-bomber) instead of 30MKI. They're practically the same airframe, but single-seaters (like Jaguars), and have higher MTOW (to carry more bombs).So they could stick to the 18x 30MKI airframes, and all additional airframes could be Su-34.

Jaguar carries 4 ton payload and su30mki carries 8 ton with far more fuel and range. So no need to go for su34.

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[tarunraju]

Jaguar carries 4 ton payload and su30mki carries 8 ton with far more fuel and range. So no need to go for su34.

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Yeah, but the Su-34 can carry 4 tons per hardpoint. It's also a side-by-side twinseater. There's additional hardening of the cockpit. It's capable of all of the Su-30's signature maneuvers.

 

[aditya10r]

It's high time we develop our own CAS aircraft for the IAF.Something along the lines of jaguar and su-34.

It will take time but will be worth it.

__________________________________________

 

[vampyrbladez]

It's high time we develop our own CAS aircraft for the IAF.Something along the lines of jaguar and su-34.

It will take time but will be worth it.

__________________________________________

There is a reason why USAF won't give up this beast!

BRRRRRRRTTTTT!

 

[vampyrbladez]

IAF set to shelve Jaguar engine upgrade, could buy more Su-30 MKIs instead
Jaguar engines have seen a 15-30% reduction in thrust, and the cost of the upgrade is too high. One Sukhoi can perform the same role as two Jaguars.

New Delhi: The Indian Air Force is set to shelve its plan for an engine upgrade of the Jaguar deep penetration strike aircraft due to the high cost involved. Instead, it could go in for additional Sukhoi Su-30 MKIs to replace the aircraft that will be grounded, ThePrint has learnt.

Top sources in the defence establishment said the Rolls-Royce Adour 811 engines of the 1980s vintage twin-engine aircraft have seen 15-30 per cent reduction in thrust. This means the Jaguar cannot carry its full load.

The IAF had planned to go in for an engine upgrade and had selected US firm Honeywell’s F-125IN engines. But sources termed the Jaguar upgrade programme as being an awkward state of affairs.

“The price quoted by Honeywell and the HAL for ‘re-engining’ is just too high. For the price of two such upgrades, we can get one basic Rafale,” a source said.

Currently, the IAF operates a total of six squadrons of the Jaguar. However, in actual strength, there are only five squadrons, as the sixth is not a complete squadron.

Avionics upgrade won’t help
The Jaguar is already undergoing an avionics upgrade — from Darin-I to Darin-III standard — but this programme is seven years behind schedule.

“The Darin-III upgrade is all about avionics and a better cockpit system. However, the problem is with the engines. Since the thrust factor is coming down, the aircraft is already flying with lower load during peacetime operations as a precautionary measure,” a source said.

Sources added that there would come a time when aircraft would be grounded as and when their engine thrust comes below a specific point, as it would put the pilots’ lives at risk.

IAF pilots have a morbid joke among themselves that the Jaguar’s current engines are so underpowered that in case of one engine failing, the second takes the aircraft to the crash site, not back to safety.

More Sukhois
A source said the plan to procure more Sukhois was being considered because it could fulfil a similar role.

“One plan is to order more Su-30 MKIs to replace those fighters that would be grounded. As far as role is concerned, one Sukhoi can play the same role as two Jaguars,” the source said.

“We can’t really afford to ground the entire fleet if the engines become a problem. If we do that, our fighter squadron strength will come down to that of Pakistan. Not to forget that out of those 25 squadrons, we still have some of ageing MiGs.”
https://theprint.in/defence/iaf-set...ade-could-buy-more-su-30-mkis-instead/278687/

This is possibly consolation prize for HAL for the additional Su 30 MKI orders they have been asking for. Su 34 is a no go! Completely different aircraft.

 

[Deathstar]

There is a reason why USAF won't give up this beast!

BRRRRRRRTTTTT!

Oh many my favourite , brrrtttttt..........

 

[IndianHawk]

Yeah, but the Su-34 can carry 4 tons per hardpoint. It's also a side-by-side twinseater. There's additional hardening of the cockpit. It's capable of all of the Su-30's signature maneuvers.

The era of Dedicated bombers is gone. We need rafale type fighters who can perform all the roles . Su30mki is multirole too and getting batter at ground attack. No need for another aircraft to maintain .

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[IndianHawk]

It's high time we develop our own CAS aircraft for the IAF.Something along the lines of jaguar and su-34.

It will take time but will be worth it.

__________________________________________

Mwf will perform that role better than jaguar.

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[uoftotaku]

Looks like HAL will somehow twist and turn the IAF to get those 72 additional MKI orders they desperately want.

Also on the SU-34 yes the MTOW is higher than SU-30 but that's because the basic airframe is much heavier due to more structure for better low level performance and also higher fuel capacity. As far as weapons load is concerned it still carries 8000kg which is same as the SU-30. The difference is that SU-34 has more hardpoints setup to carry "heavy" ordinance like the KAB/FAB-1500 as its purpose designed to be a dedicated bomber rather than an air superiority fighter with secondary bomber capability like the SU-30

Any last thing IAF needs is ANOTHER sub-type in its fleet

 

[Armand2REP]

Yeah, but the Su-34 can carry 4 tons per hardpoint. It's also a side-by-side twinseater. There's additional hardening of the cockpit. It's capable of all of the Su-30's signature maneuvers.

If IAF is going for numbers, Su-34 is the economical choice. For outright capability and survivability it would be Rafale.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

No need for more sukhois( expensive to maintain and 2 pilots),no mrca 2,no need for more aircraft types.IAF must pay the price for its horrendous choices over the years acquiring half a dozen aircraft types.

Fleet should be lca variants mk1a and mk2, rafale, upgraded sukhois and then amca thats it.Everything else slowly phase out over next 20 years.Better buy more rafales.Jaguar role is much diminished in modern warfare against sophisticated enemies.

 

[tharun]

So we are swapping one scrap with other....

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[arya]

No need for more sukhois( expensive to maintain and 2 pilots),no mrca 2,no need for more aircraft types.IAF must pay the price for its horrendous choices over the years acquiring half a dozen aircraft types.

Fleet should be lca variants mk1a and mk2, rafale, upgraded sukhois and then amca thats it.Everything else slowly phase out over next 20 years.Better buy more rafales.Jaguar role is much diminished in modern warfare against sophisticated enemies.

So you want IAF will waste next 30 years for his next gen planes . this is about national security keep this thing in mind

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

So you want IAF will waste next 30 years for his next gen planes . this is about national security keep this thing in mind

So you want more expensive sukhois ,even more than 18 ?Remember these sukhois are still built to 1998 specifications more or less.
Im saying upgrade existing sukhois.Go with lca full steam ahead.
Get rafales with spare money.

 

[arya]

So you want more expensive sukhois ,even more than 18 ?Remember these sukhois are still built to 1998 specifications more or less.
Im saying upgrade existing sukhois.Go with lca full steam ahead.
Get rafales with spare money.

Well if you go through this thread then you can find i am totally against more su30 mki . IAF don't need more su30 mki . we should upgrades our su30 mki with new engines and radars , missile .

But IAF need fighter planes as i said many times in past , IAF need SU57 at east 3 Sq . MMRCA , LCA2 , MCA.

But we need more fighter planes 5.5 gen . our total sq is just 24 while we must have atleast 40+ sq

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Well if you go through this thread then you can find i am totally against more su30 mki . IAF don't need more su30 mki . we should upgrades our su30 mki with new engines and radars , missile .

But IAF need fighter planes as i said many times in past , IAF need SU57 at east 3 Sq . MMRCA , LCA2 , MCA.

But we need more fighter planes 5.5 gen . our total sq is just 24 while we must have atleast 40+ sq

Su 57 is a dud,thats why we left the program.Its a fake stealth aircraft.

 

[arya]

Su 57 is a dud,thats why we left the program.Its a fake stealth aircraft.

How do you know that ??

well we left the program because few idiots here were giving priority to make in India as compare to national security & russia was not giving us TOT .

 

[WolfPack86]

With the IAF cancelling plans that began over a decade ago to up-engine its Jaguar jets, prospect for more Su-30 orders from HAL brighten — our report from January has perspective.