Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[bhramos]

..................................................................

 

[ashdoc]

Yeah we need more mkis with r77 longer range missile version.

 

[bhavesh100]

Yeah we need more mkis with r77 longer range missile version.

Unless SU MKI Has AESA RADAR, good ew system, and stand off air to air of more than 150 km and air to ground of 100 km with spice Bombay, no need to waste money to upgrade them. Get French rafale

 

[tarunraju]

..................................................................

This kinda confirms that HAL won't be manufacturing Rafale, but rather a PPP consortium. Congis will cry rivers of randi-rona. IAF is ordering 18 more Su-30 airframes this October to replenish lost aircraft and keep HAL's line running a few months longer.

It also foreshadows the Rafale order being larger than expected (I'm betting on 180 airframes or 10 sqns, including the 36 airframes fully-imported), because that's how the local manufacturing consortium can break even and make some coin.

 

[IndianHawk]

Unless SU MKI Has AESA RADAR, good ew system, and stand off air to air of more than 150 km and air to ground of 100 km with spice Bombay, no need to waste money to upgrade them. Get French rafale

Su30 MKI radar is hybrid and very well capable of guiding very long range bvr. Even without aesa su30 MKI with sfdr missile will be able to hit targets as away as rafale with meteor.
So bigger necessity is long range bvr not aesa.
That is why derby ER is being proposed.

Su30 MKI is continuously evolving. It's upgrade will see better ew Suite with new rwr and Maws etc.

Don't forget extraordinary capabilities su30 holds - tremendous jamming power , very long endurance time , mini AWACS role to guide other fighters , buddy refueling to fill other fighters and bramhos carrying capacity.

I think we should order 72 more sukhoi with bramhos and nirbhay capabilities. That way we will have 40+72= 112 su30mki with bramhos air ready to strike anywhere within 2000km from Indian bases.

Especially in Andaman and in Arunachal such su30mki+bramhos combo can threaten Chinese mobilization and depots.


Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[bhavesh100]

Su30 MKI radar is hybrid and very well capable of guiding very long range bvr. Even without aesa su30 MKI with sfdr missile will be able to hit targets as away as rafale with meteor.
So bigger necessity is long range bvr not aesa.
That is why derby ER is being proposed.

Su30 MKI is continuously evolving. It's upgrade will see better ew Suite with new rwr and Maws etc.

Don't forget extraordinary capabilities su30 holds - tremendous jamming power , very long endurance time , mini AWACS role to guide other fighters , buddy refueling to fill other fighters and bramhos carrying capacity.

I think we should order 72 more sukhoi with bramhos and nirbhay capabilities. That way we will have 40+72= 112 su30mki with bramhos air ready to strike anywhere within 2000km from Indian bases.

Especially in Andaman and in Arunachal such su30mki+bramhos combo can threaten Chinese mobilization and depots.


Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

Yes I under stand, India can defend its air space with su 30 mki and all surface to air missiles and new radar system. I am looking at next 20 years where you have to go 500 km in some one territory and do the job. Stand of missiles are all fine with 300 km plus range. We need to look at dominating air space beyond 500 km from our border.

 

[IndianHawk]

Yes I under stand, India can defend its air space with su 30 mki and all surface to air missiles and new radar system. I am looking at next 20 years where you have to go 500 km in some one territory and do the job. Stand of missiles are all fine with 300 km plus range. We need to look at dominating air space beyond 500 km from our border.

Pakistan doesn't have more depth than 250-300km.

Sfdr is under testing and will have range of 340km for AWACS like targets.

Bramhos air has range of 500 km .
Nirbhay has a range of 1000+ km. And air launch version of nirbhay is being developed with similar or greater range.

All of these weapons will be Carried by su30 so it can strike at 500km and beyond from within India airspace.

Secondly you don't send an aircraft to strike that far you them use ground based cruise missile as it is far more safe and effective.

Even if we get rafale we will still not send it 300km inside china . Nobody does that.
At best it will enter 100km and launch scalp.

Now compared to that su30MKI can launch bramhos from 500 km already. With nirbhay which will be subsonic su30 will be able to hit far deeper than rafale while staying far behind rafale.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[Tridev123]

The Su-30mki is a beast and can go deep into China, if need be. But it can be relevant only if it has Bvr missiles whose range at a minimum must be greater than Amraam C5 carried by Pak jets. What is the use of a 400 km range radar if it cannot fire first at Pak F16s. The US Bvr missiles have a good reputation. Chinese Bvr missiles are untested and probably overrated. So I agree with other members that a long range bvr(>120km) is absolutely necessary. The Su-30mki having a large RCS will present a bigger target. But it can detect the F16 earlier due to its 400km radar.

 

[vampyrbladez]

This kinda confirms that HAL won't be manufacturing Rafale, but rather a PPP consortium. Congis will cry rivers of randi-rona. IAF is ordering 18 more Su-30 airframes this October to replenish lost aircraft and keep HAL's line running a few months longer.

It also foreshadows the Rafale order being larger than expected (I'm betting on 180 airframes or 10 sqns, including the 36 airframes fully-imported), because that's how the local manufacturing consortium can break even and make some coin.

Is the 18 kit order separate from HAL's order? AFAIK the 18 is pretty much confirmed for October signing.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/india-to-buy-18-more-su-30mki-fighter-jets-from-russia/

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...ected-sign-more-mig-29s-and-su-30mkis-october

 

[IndianHawk]

The Su-30mki is a beast and can go deep into China, if need be. But it can be relevant only if it has Bvr missiles whose range at a minimum must be greater than Amraam C5 carried by Pak jets. What is the use of a 400 km range radar if it cannot fire first at Pak F16s. The US Bvr missiles have a good reputation. Chinese Bvr missiles are untested and probably overrated. So I agree with other members that a long range bvr(>120km) is absolutely necessary. The Su-30mki having a large RCS will present a bigger target. But it can detect the F16 earlier due to its 400km radar.

Long range bvr are coming. Many sources have claimed Astra mk1 itself is better than aim120c5 . Derby ER with dual pulse is proposed. Russian are proposing rvv BD/sd version with long ranges .

Astra mk2 with dual pulse motor is in works and finally sfdr in testing. But yes all of these solutions will take some time.

Anyway by September rafale will be here with meteor pushing paki on back foot.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[tarunraju]

Is the 18 kit order separate from HAL's order? AFAIK the 18 is pretty much confirmed for October signing.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/india-to-buy-18-more-su-30mki-fighter-jets-from-russia/

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...ected-sign-more-mig-29s-and-su-30mkis-october

HAL simply wants that 18-unit order to be a 72-unit (4 sqn) order so it can keep its line running for long enough till IAF gets serious about MWF. The only reason I see it would want more MKIs is because it got whiff that Rafale local manufacturing won't fall into its laps, at least it's not certain.

 

[Tridev123]

Will be happiest if our own Astra mk1 can out range Pak Amraam C5. The Paf's entire confidence and bravado rests on their combination of F16 and Amraam. They know in their hearts that the JF17 Blunder and Chinese Bvr missiles cannot be relied upon. Remove their F16 threat and they will cry for peace. Our Astramk2 dual pulse missile development must be fast tracked.

 

[Tridev123]

Long range bvr are coming. Many sources have claimed Astra mk1 itself is better than aim120c5 . Derby ER with dual pulse is proposed. Russian are proposing rvv BD/sd version with long ranges .

Astra mk2 with dual pulse motor is in works and finally sfdr in testing. But yes all of these solutions will take some time.

Anyway by September rafale will be here with meteor pushing paki on back foot.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

Can you confirm if new 130km plus Russian Bvr missiles have been integrated with our Su30mki. Absolutely necessary as 27th Feb can be repeated. Don't trust the Pakis.

 

[ashdoc]

Can you confirm if new 130km plus Russian Bvr missiles have been integrated with our Su30mki. Absolutely necessary as 27th Feb can be repeated. Don't trust the Pakis.

They have been ordered, but I don't think they have been integrated.

 

[IndianHawk]

Can you confirm if new 130km plus Russian Bvr missiles have been integrated with our Su30mki. Absolutely necessary as 27th Feb can be repeated. Don't trust the Pakis.

Don't fall for paki propaganda. 100+ km range never has killed any fighter jets. Most bvr kills have happened under 25-30 km range.

A missile most effective within its no escape zone. For aim120 c5 nez is barely 25 km. So unless paki fire it coming 30 km near su30 , su30 will evade the missile or jam it.

And if they come this close r77 is enough to down f16. After all it was an r73 of mig21 which took down f16.

Meteor is game Changer because its nez Is 60km+ . Sfdr will be same .

Astra with dual pulse and Israeli derby ER both will have much bigger nez than aim120c5.

Paki can only ambush su30 to stop it for a while . If su30 was on offensive and we strike Pakistan with surprise you will see multiple f16 down as su30 command hight and air superiority.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[uoftotaku]

The problem IAF is concerned with about MKI new orders is a legitimate one. HAL is basically still making the same aircraft which configuration was fixed in 1998. In the intervening 20 years, technology has moved forward leaps and bounds but the MKI has seen no incremental Block type improvement or updates.

They have just been blindly churning out and increasing outdated aircraft. IAF does not want to saddle itself with 72 brand new aircraft which will essentially be obsolete fresh put of the factory. HAL is still nowhere near offering the Super 30 MLU package which IAF wants.

They could have offered 72 new build air frames in Super 30 configuration and IAF would have ordered. As it is why should they?

It's only because HAL wants to protect its reservation chaap guys jobs that they are doing this randi rona in their favourite darbaari Pubby mans column.

 

[Tridev123]

Don't fall for paki propaganda. 100+ km range never has killed any fighter jets. Most bvr kills have happened under 25-30 km range.

A missile most effective within its no escape zone. For aim120 c5 nez is barely 25 km. So unless paki fire it coming 30 km near su30 , su30 will evade the missile or jam it.

And if they come this close r77 is enough to down f16. After all it was an r73 of mig21 which took down f16.

Meteor is game Changer because its nez Is 60km+ . Sfdr will be same .

Astra with dual pulse and Israeli derby ER both will have much bigger nez than aim120c5.

Paki can only ambush su30 to stop it for a while . If su30 was on offensive and we strike Pakistan with surprise you will see multiple f16 down as su30 command hight and air superiority.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

Bit confused regarding terminology No Escape. Zone. How is NEZ defined?. Does nez happen only when missile has fuel and powered flight so it can undertake high g manoeuvres. Or does nez happens when Bvr missile on board seeker locks on to target. We know that initial flight of Bvr missiles will be guided by aircraft radar and only when target is close the missiles on board seeker switches and locks on target. My understanding of nez is, say a missile with 120km max range and 25 km no escape zone, the missile can be fired 120km away from target but will actually hit the target only if it comes within 25km from the target. Meaning that the enemy aircraft does not need to come 25 km close to the targeted aircraft. What is the reality?. How do we define nez.

 

[uoftotaku]

Bit confused regarding terminology No Escape. Zone. How is NEZ defined?. Does nez happen only when missile has fuel and powered flight so it can undertake high g manoeuvres. Or does nez happens when Bvr missile on board seeker locks on to target. We know that initial flight of Bvr missiles will be guided by aircraft radar and only when target is close the missiles on board seeker switches and locks on target. My understanding of nez is, say a missile with 120km max range and 25 km no escape zone, the missile can be fired 120km away from target but will actually hit the target only if it comes within 25km from the target. Meaning that the enemy aircraft does not need to come 25 km close to the targeted aircraft. What is the reality?. How do we define nez.

NEZ is defined as the range at which a target is unable to "outrun" a missile in a tail chase situation.

Even head on, if an aircraft detects a missile launch the immediate action is to turn and run. They try to simply outrun the missile. Every missile only has finite "powered" flight till its motor runs out of juice so if you can open up distance to beyond this then you have "escaped" as the missile can no longer catch you.

NEZ is that area within which this turn and run is not possible as the missile will catch up to you in powered flight before it runs out of juice.

 

[IndianHawk]

The problem IAF is concerned with about MKI new orders is a legitimate one. HAL is basically still making the same aircraft which configuration was fixed in 1998. In the intervening 20 years, technology has moved forward leaps and bounds but the MKI has seen no incremental Block type improvement or updates.

They have just been blindly churning out and increasing outdated aircraft. IAF does not want to saddle itself with 72 brand new aircraft which will essentially be obsolete fresh put of the factory. HAL is still nowhere near offering the Super 30 MLU package which IAF wants.

They could have offered 72 new build air frames in Super 30 configuration and IAF would have ordered. As it is why should they?

It's only because HAL wants to protect its reservation chaap guys jobs that they are doing this randi rona in their favourite darbaari Pubby mans column.

This is not accurate. MKI may not have gone airframe upgrade but it's weapons and electronics have improved a lot.

It has an all digital Indian radar warning system .
It has sap18 jamming pod and Israeli jamming pods. While an Indian jamming pod is under development.

Su30 has added Astra mk1 to its arsenal along with all new type of Indian pgm , lgbs.

It has mated with bramhos which is a rare feat for any aircraft in the world.

It's radar is still most powerful radar than any paki fighter. And it's engine have enough power to propel it to Mach 1.8.

Let me post from BRF the upgrads planned for su30 MKI.


Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[IndianHawk]

Credit to Karan M on BRF

What we do have in our local/imported kitty so far are:

6 channel RWR to prevent Blanking Eagle eye (on order, in induction)

and DR118 (trials)HBJ pod to replace Russian/Israeli jammers (status awaited)

MAWS (ready for fitment, trials?)

i-Derby ER (order yet to be placed)

ASRAAM (2x Su-30s modified as testbed, initial integration work cleared, orders yet to be placed)Brahmos (orders placed)

Spice 2000 (being added)

Desi weapons - all in development but which will make a radical change to the Su-30:

PGHSLD (450/500kg), GPS bombs (500kg/1000kg),
Glide bombs (500kg-1Ton, 30km-100km range),

NGARM, Rudra M2, SAAW

New avionics architecture + 2x wide area displays (DARE has proposal ready)

Software defined radio (orders placed, to replace/supplant existing Russian radios which are capable but lower bandwidth etc).

Additional "missing" items:

New IRST (program for domestic one has merely received DAC clearance)Radar upgrades,

run to Russia (which ideally IAF should have funded LRDE for, to at least progress domestic capability for the future)

Engine upgrades (Russians are putting in 117S variants into Su-30 SM)

New weapons from Russia e.g.
VRLAAM for AWACS etc (RVV-BD, 300km range)Towed decoy package (a bunch available) + expendable decoys (eg Brite Cloud)

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk