Sukhoi PAK FA

[gadeshi]

On the himalayas, I read somewhere that there were problems getting the air force to fight in the Himalayan region.

Soviet Air Forces have fought in Afgan mountains very successful.
It just depends on your pilots skills and your planes reliability and ability to turn in tight space being loaded.
It is also an avionics abilities to work in close multiple reflectory environment that constantly changes in this flight.

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[gadeshi]

F-22 is not for sale .

after evaluation Indian Air-force rejected Eurofighters & selected Rafaels ,

there are many problems with Eurofighters and many times they have to stop operation of Eurofighters .

India should not buy outdated fighter planes .

Yes, but not because EF-2000 fighter abilities (which are superior than Rafale ones) but because of EF-2000 weaker strike capabilities while IAF needed primarily a strike platform.

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[airtel]

http://www.letemps.ch/r/Le_Temps/Quotidien/2012/02/13/Suisse/Textes/gripen.pdf


Strike misions:
From the strike point of view, the Rafale is the recommended aircraft.

Rafale: 7.63 ; Eurofighter: 5.75


Escort missions:
The Rafale is the only candidate with the best overall effectiveness to fulfil all type of Escort missions

Rafale: 7.41 ; Eurofighter : 6.54


Defensive Counter Air:
The Rafale is the only candidate with the best over all effectiveness to fulfill DCA missions (defensive counter air)

Rafale: 7.28 ; Typhoon: 6.49


Air Policing:
The Rafale is still recommended as the preferred candidate of Air Policing missions.

Rafale: 6.98 ; Typhoon: 6.48


Reconnaissance:
In the recce domain,the Rafale has been assessed with the best effectiveness, the Gripen and the Typhoon do not even achieve the minimum capabilities.

Rafale: 7.63 ; Eurofighter : 5.43


we should never buy Eurofighter , because Germany has a law which prohibits the sale of spare parts during war, we may have to ground the Typhoon fleet in such scenario and UK deprived us of spare parts for harrier fleet during kargil war, so we don't trust them.

 

[BON PLAN]

F-22 is in the past in any means.

one is on duty : F22

All the others are on trials, at best.

 

[BON PLAN]

It's up to debate. It's usually countries allied with the United States (South Korea, Japan, Canada, etc) that buy the F-series, while a lot of other countries that don't have a strong alliance buy the European counterparts.

The Eurofighter is by far the most versatile fighter plane on earth. It's far more adapt at fighting in close range combat and plane-to-plane combat.

Huuuuu.....

Do you know why GB eurofighters doesn't train in WVR against Rafale until some years? Because they badly loose all the encounters (one of the famous was in Corsica : 7 to 1)

So definitively the Eurofighter is not THE more adapted fighter in the world.

And what about it's versatility ? The only anti ship missile it has now is the Marte !!! I'm not sure the Storm Shadow or Taurus are integrated !!! and when it will carry 2 cruise missile (if ever) it will only have one small external tank !!!

No, No, and No, the EF is not the more versatile fighter of the world (F15E ? ), and not the best in AtoA fight.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

It will be a disaster for Indian defence.

Lets have a look...............

How Indian defence got fucked..........?

Corrupt Indian politicians and defence people allowed Russians to use India as their ATM machine.

They kept paying money to Russians in the name of "joint development projects".

Out of it, 50% money came back to India as corruption.

Remaining, Russians use to convert their projects in to products, for foreign customers, including India.

To maintain that corrupt cycle, Indian politicians and defence people never allowed Indian defence industrial complex get it developed.

If you wants proper defence industry in India, then stop funding Russian defence projects.

Stop that cycle, stop that modus operandi.

Unfortunately, that is not happening, even in Modi administration.

If IAF really wants PAK-FA , then they can buy it as a buyer too.

Let Russians develop it first as per our requirements.

No need pay $4 billion as development costs.

At the end of the day that is taxpayer's money.

How the hell GoI can justify that expanse in front of people specially when they can buy it without spending that $4 billion.......!

OK

Ate you OK with rafale deal ?

Because we are paying France dasault more than 2 billion for India specific integration of Indian weapons & customisation like integration of Israeli hmds aakash missiles etc

That too contracted and advance

That too for 36 rafales

That too without any structural modifications


But now you have a problem for paying 4 billion to Russia for highly modified pakfa

Can you please explain in detail

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Su-30 MKI - they gets in the form of kits, only assembly work get done in India.

Bhramos - even one of our mod made it clear on DFI, that India still struggling to get ToT for it.

Rafale - ever French provide any ToT yet.....! I never heard it though.

For that bold part, Russians developed it totally. Now after it still you think Indian defence ever get that freedom to fit Indian parts on it.

When I write these, even not a single IAF guy got permission to test PAKFA yet.

Get yourself educated about Indian level.of indigenization of su30mki

 

[Zebra]

Get yourself educated about Indian level.of indigenization of su30mki

Enlighten me than.

And it is not only me, check the reports submitted by the ministers, time to time in house itself.

Help your self, you can get those reports.

On top of it, have a look ----> "We have never had control over technology. ( http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/10/india-offers-to-buy-200-foreign-combat.html )

 

[Butter Chicken]

Enlighten me than.

And it is not only me, check the reports submitted by the ministers, time to time in house itself.

Help your self, you can get those reports.

On top of it, have a look ----> "We have never had control over technology. ( http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/10/india-offers-to-buy-200-foreign-combat.html )

73% of parts of Su-30 MKI are made in India,and about 51% of value.Greater indigenization is not possible due to contract which specifies metals,nuts,bolts etc to be sourced from Russia

 

[Zebra]

73% of parts of Su-30 MKI are made in India,and about 51% of value.Greater indigenization is not possible due to contract which specifies metals,nuts,bolts etc to be sourced from Russia

Keep lying again and again , one day it might become truth.

 

[Prashant12]

Russia expects to ink FGFA deal by Dec-end

Panaji: Russia expects to reach an agreement with India for the joint development of Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) for the Indian Air Force by December. The aircraft, known as the Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF) in India, will be based on Russia's PAK-FA T-50 jet fighter but will boast a radar and avionics suite that could be superior to the prototype.

"From our end, the agreement has been completed. There are, however, some formalities to get through. I think the agreement can be signed by the end of this year," the head of Rostec state corporation, Sergei Chemezov, said, adding, "We have pretty much finalized details. The onus is now on the Indian government."
Confirming the developments, a senior official of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) said that a formal announcement had been expected at the Brics summit, but that certain issues caused the formal inking of the agreement to be "missed by a whisker".

On whether the FGFA would include technology that is currently being developed for the sixth generation fighter aircraft that Russia is working on, Chemezov said, "The sixth generation aircraft is not really something we can seriously discuss right now as it is too far off. PAK-FA features can be introduced in the FGFA but, more importantly, one has to realize that this is a plane that will be developed jointly with India's engineers and constructors.

"I see, very realistically, that something such as avionics and radar detection would be even more improved and that would make the Indian FGFA more advanced than the PAK-FA that was introduced last year," he added.

Rostec is a Russian state-owned umbrella organization of 700 hi-tech civilian and military firms.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...fgfa-deal-by-dec-end/articleshow/55166961.cms

 

[3deffect]

Need more time on 5th-gen fighter jet, India tells Russia

• 

In the latest round of India-Russia military talks, New Delhi has told Moscow that it will need more time to examine the proposal to jointly develop the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA).

The FGFA, which is under development, is very much a future requirement for the Indian Air Force (IAF) upgrade programme, the Russian side was conveyed last week at a meeting between Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his Russian counterpart General Sergey Shoigu in New Delhi.

“We have asked for greater details with regards to the work India will be doing in manufacturing the plane and also technology transfer,” a top source in the Ministry of Defence (MoD) said. India and Russia have been working to conclude a pending agreement to co-develop the FGFA.

New Delhi has told Moscow that it wants a new engine and the plane must have super cruise ability, a 360-degree radar ability, added stealth features among 40-odd other India-specific modifications over the existing prototype. A plane called the ‘T-50’ built by the Russians under the PAK-FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) programme as FGFA is already being tested as prototype in Russia.

The two countries have to sign a research and development (R&D) contract for the FGFA, but before that the “wrinkles have to be ironed out”. The signing of a R&D contract has been pending since June 2013 when the preliminary design contract (PDC), which detailed out the fighter’s configuration, was completed. The PDC cost $295 million (Rs 1,500 crore approximately).

The IAF has said AL-41F1 engines being used on the existing T-50 were just upgraded versions of the Sukhoi-30MKI’s AL-31FP engines and it would need a new engine. Also, the MoD wants that the R&D contract should have an adequate share of work done in India, thus allowing Indian engineers to learn the art of designing and making a plane. The R&D contract is estimated to be for $4 billion (around Rs 26,000 crore). The R&D process and final development of the plane is expected to be spread across seven years.

An aircraft such as the FGFA would be ideal for missions deep into the enemy territory. The IAF is now operating at its lowest combat strength in more than a decade. It is down to 33 squadrons (some 16-18 planes in each) as against a mandated 42 squadrons needed for simultaneous and collusive two-front war scenario with Pakistan and China.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/Need-more-time-on-5th-gen-fighter-jet,-India-tells-Russia-29010

 

[Mikesingh]

Wow! Upgraded FGFA twin seater in IAF colors!

 

[Chinmoy]

Wow! Upgraded FGFA twin seater in IAF colors!

Nice Fan art................

 

[BON PLAN]

Russia expects to ink FGFA deal by Dec-end

Panaji: Russia expects to reach an agreement with India for the joint development of Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) for the Indian Air Force by December. The aircraft, known as the Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF) in India, will be based on Russia's PAK-FA T-50 jet fighter but will boast a radar and avionics suite that could be superior to the prototype.

"From our end, the agreement has been completed. There are, however, some formalities to get through. I think the agreement can be signed by the end of this year," the head of Rostec state corporation, Sergei Chemezov, said, adding, "We have pretty much finalized details. The onus is now on the Indian government."
Confirming the developments, a senior official of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) said that a formal announcement had been expected at the Brics summit, but that certain issues caused the formal inking of the agreement to be "missed by a whisker".

On whether the FGFA would include technology that is currently being developed for the sixth generation fighter aircraft that Russia is working on, Chemezov said, "The sixth generation aircraft is not really something we can seriously discuss right now as it is too far off. PAK-FA features can be introduced in the FGFA but, more importantly, one has to realize that this is a plane that will be developed jointly with India's engineers and constructors.

"I see, very realistically, that something such as avionics and radar detection would be even more improved and that would make the Indian FGFA more advanced than the PAK-FA that was introduced last year," he added.

Rostec is a Russian state-owned umbrella organization of 700 hi-tech civilian and military firms.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...fgfa-deal-by-dec-end/articleshow/55166961.cms

In Indian time, Dec 2016 may become .... Dec 2019 . See the story of the Rafale deal.....

 

[BON PLAN]

Wow! Upgraded FGFA twin seater in IAF colors!

praise the god Photoshop !

 

[IndianHawk]

In Indian time, Dec 2016 may become .... Dec 2019 . See the story of the Rafale deal.....

Well this drama is going on from 2000s ,
So perhaps it's delay phase is covered :biggrin2:

And with Russian economy in recession they will clinch it asap

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

With Cheenis getting J 20.FGFA is a must.Though i believe India will fly few squadrons of PAK FA as well.

 

[BON PLAN]

And with Russian economy in recession they will clinch it asap

or... just before the russian economy collapse ....

 

[Pash]

or... just before the russian economy collapse ....

I don't think Russian economy is this bad situation and don't forgot they are selling these days lot to China. But I hope that India will figure out soon about PAK-KA and will decide on FGFA