Need to look for it. But in the posts where I quoted Ajai Shukla, even he said the Arjun was inducted before requirements were satisfied. This is actually well known.
Again as i understand it
Army gets its first armoured regiment of MBT Arjun
5/25/2009
History of sorts was made today as the Indian Army proudly equipped itself with the first Armoured Regiment of indigenously built Main Battle Tank, Arjun. The development marks the fruition of 35 years of research in self-reliance by dedicated Indian scientists against all odds.
16 tanks (Cumulative 45 Arjun tanks) were handed over to Lt.Gen.D.Bhardwaj, DGMF, towards formation of the 1st Arjun regiment by Shri S.Chandrasekar, Addl. DGOF (AV) and flagged-off by Dr.A.Sivathanu PIllai, Chief Controller, Research & Development & Distinguished Scientist, DRDO at a function in Avadi today. MBT Arjun is the state-of-art main battle tank designed and developed by Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment(CVRDE), Avadi along with other DRDO and industrial partners. MBT Arjun is provided with excellent mobility, superior fire power and protection and the features are quite comparable to contemporary world tanks. The Kanchan Armour, Hydro-pneumatic suspension, Armament system, Integrated Fire Detection & Suppression System, system engineering and system integration of complex weapon platforms are some of the significant indigenous technologies of Arjun, developed by DRDO labs. Initially 12 prototypes were developed during 1983 to 1990 and they were subjected to field trials of more than 20,000 kms and 1100 rounds. Based on user feedback 15 pre-production vehicles were developed during 1990 to 1995 and they were subjected to field trials of more than 70,000 kms and 8000 rounds. After the satisfactory trials, army placed an indent initially for 15 limited series production in Nov 1997 and cumulatively 124 in Mar 2000. The development of Arjun was carried out in a number of stages and evaluation through extensive field trials. After satisfactory performance, Army placed an indent for the full compliment of 124 nos. of MBT Arjun in Mar 2000.
As there was a long gap from the R&D phase to production phase from 1993 to 2000, problems related to re-establishing production lines and vendor sources and resolving overseas issues like technology denial in view of Pokhran testing, change over and mergers of OEMS for the critical items, delayed initial commencement of production. In order to meet the production requirement, additional infrastructure facilities and machine tools were established at HVF, Avadi and Ordnance Factory, Medak. However, the first pilot batch of production tanks was handed over to Army on 7th August 2004 in the presence of the then Defence Minister Shri. Pranab Mukherjee. During subsequent production, Army insisted upon the demonstration of medium fording capabilities of MBT Arjun. Both CVRDE and HVF, continuously worked on war footing, to meet the stringent requirement of medium fording to a height of 2.1m in water with preparation time of 30 minutes as retro-fitment solution and demonstrated successfully to Defence Minister Shri A.K.Antony and other dignitaries on 2nd July 2007. Subsequently, the production tanks were incorporated with all medium fording modifications and the next batch of nine tanks were handed over by Sep 2007.
Meanwhile, Army carried out the Accelerated Usage Cum Reliability Trials (AUCRT) in 5 phases on two tanks from Nov 2007 to Aug 2008 covering more than 8000 km and 800 rounds of firing in each tank. AUCRT is required for assessing the spares requirement for the entire life of the tank besides evaluation of reliability of tank. Each phase consists of 1000kms run and 100EFC (Approx. 160 rounds of APFSDS and HESH – Primary and secondary rounds) over a temperature range of -5 to 500C. One of the main issues during AUCRT trials was the failure of the bearings of Transmission of M/s RENK, Germany, due to rise in lub oil temperature. However, this was immediately solved by modifying the software during AUCRT itself and the efficacy of the software was proved for more than 4000kms. However a comprehensive solution of modifying the bearing assembly by providing a special coating was carried out to take care of the temperature problem and the retrofitment of bearing assembly being carried out in all the tanks.
The outcome of AUCRT trials raised the confidence levels of the users over the reliability and endurance of MBT Arjun and they confirmed that the overall performance of the MBT Arjun during the stringent AUCRT trials was satisfactory and cleared the production tanks with minor modifications suggested during AUCRT, for induction. Both CVRDE and HVF along with DGQA agencies worked out methodologies to introduce all AUCRT modifications within shortest time frame and the next batch of 17 tanks were handed over to Army by 3rd March 2009.
As suggested by Army after AUCRT trials, Arjun tanks were subjected to rigorous trials and assessment by a third party audit (an internationally reputed tank manufacturer). After the extensive evaluation, the reputed tank manufacturer confirmed that the MBT Arjun is an excellent tank with very good mobility and fire power characteristics suitable for Indian desert. They also added inputs such as quality auditing, production procedures and refined calibration procedures for further enhancing the performance of MBT Arjun. DRDO, will be incorporating all these inputs in the next regiment of 62 tanks for handing over to Army before Mar 2010 as desired by the Army.
The regiment of 45 tanks will be subjected to a conversion training and field practice for a period of 3 months. Thereafter, the Army is planning to conduct a comparative trial with T 90 tanks in Oct/Nov 2009 to assess the operational deployment role of the tanks. The present batch of 124 tanks will be delivered by Mar 2010.
Veerendra/Rajendra
Release Id :48844
Nothing in there suggests the Arjun was forced on the Army before testing and trials were complete.
The Army barely had 45 tanks by 2009 , and all of those were for testing.
Hopefully it stays that way. IAF already has 4 LCAs in operation.
Again as i understand it
LCA Tejas
8/4/2011
Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) for Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas has been completed in December 2010. So far, 1,659 flight tests have been completed.
LCA, Tejas Phase-ll Programme (Air Force version) was sanctioned in November 2001 at a cost'of Rs.3301.78 Cr. with Probable Date of Completion (PDC) of December 2008. The project is likely to be completed by December 2012 with an additional cost of Rs.2475.78 Cr. The additional cost is to meet the expanded scope of the programme, increased cost of materials, manpower, maintenance of facilities, etc.
Phased development approach has been changed to concurrent development approach. Annual Review by Raksha Mantri, Review by Secretary, Department of Defence R&D and Quarterly Review by Deputy Chief of Air Staff are being regularly carried out to check the delay in completion of project.
Indian Air Force has ordered 40 Tejas Mk-I aircraft (20 aircraft in IOC and 20 aircraft in FOC standard). Two aircraft will be ready by March 2012 for induction.
This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri Uday Pratap Singh in Lok Sabha today.
PK/NN
Release Id :73840
I don't see how there can be 4 in service already.
Especially considering since that press release , there has been a delay of one year at least.
And even if they were already in service , they would be initial production aircraft to achieve FOC standard.
which is standard practice.
This is an unacceptable risk. The Patriot developers gave guarantees of successful use in the Gulf war, it failed. Heads rolled.
I fail to see your point really,
In retrospect a lot of thing look like "unacceptable risks" , in practice its pretty much par for the course.
Your never going to have risks and guarantee's your comfortable with , if you are then your more likely misinformed about the risks or guarantees .
Yes. The Patriot's biggest failure was when a Scud interception failed and 28 men died for it. Guess what, it was a software error, something to do with the RT clock.
Stuff like that is par for the course sadly.
Anything to do with SE needs a lot of Quality control.
But then you have deadlines , so one thing has to give.
Software engineering.
Sure you can say the LCA is more advanced. But the end result is that the JF-17 followed the timetable set for it while the LCA did not.
Sure , by that measure one can say if the LCA was accepted before it met the current ASR it would also be success.
however
Using your own logic that inducting planes before they are ready is worse than not inducting.
Then the JF-17 would not be success.
Currently they are very much stuck with planes that need new avionics and missiles , their operational readiness is very much in question NO ?
Not at all. F-16 jockeys will ask for F-35 and F-15 jockeys will ask for F-22. Both are excellent aircraft. But when pilots have such an option, then ask one of them to choose the F-16 Block 52 over the F-35 instead. USAF can afford such aircraft, so pilots are happy.
According to what you suggested prior in your question.
Well why not make the F-22B(Strike varriant) , why make the F-35 at all.
By all measures the F-22 has superior design.
Why go for a smaller single engine design in the first place , why would those pilots choose that over a bigger twin engine aircraft ?
why complicate the issue at all
IAF has Mirage 2000 and MIg-29
They also have Rafale and MKI.
Why any of the Mirage or mig-29 pilots fly their planes over the Rafale and MKI ?
according to what i think you suggest , they should scrap both the mirage and Mig-29 and get more Rafale and MKI.
However IAF has expensive upgrade plans for both aircraft costing billions of dollars(more money then they have ever had to commit towards the LCA project). Why shouldn't all those resources be put into MKI and Rafale because that's what the pilots want and what we can afford.
Now i could be crazy but i am thinking there are certain logistical and financial reason for the IAF not jut getting MKI and Rafale to replace everything.
I also think there may be logistical and financial reason for the Tejas to be Best in role for the IAF. even though Aircraft with much better performance may be available .
IAF can afford such aircraft as well, so why should our pilots be any less happy.
Saying that is one thing , proving that is more than just saying it.
There are finite resources on what we can have as defense expenditure. That much i know.
we want 42 squadrons , how much is that going to cost ?, can we pay for that ?
can we even go back to 39.5 squadrons with more expensive aircraft to replace the ones we lost ?
can all questions like that be answered.
Sure. An option between a LCA and Mig-21 would see LCA as the winner. But is LCA the only option?
So you want to replace a ASR compliant Tejas with a bigger more expensive foreign equivalent because you can pay for the difference ?
We are inducting much better aircraft while replacing the Mig-21s.
Not one aircraft for all roles , isn't that why the MKI is not our go to.
They all cost different amounts , have different payloads, they can be available at different dates.
I think in reality replacing the Mig-21's with bigger aircraft , that cost more and require more maintenance, is more complicated than you make it out to be.
Especially when the budget books have been balanced to expect the Tejas.
How much is the maintance cost on the mig-21 and how much is the cost on one of the larger twin engine.
More importantly, the Bison pilots are all senior pilots now. The young ones have moved away from the Migs and the remaining 80 old Mig-21s have been grounded. Young pilots are being given the MKIs followed by Rafale and PAKFA in the future. Old pilots will switch between the Mig-21 and Mig-29 squadrons as they have the experience to fly these aircraft along with moving to MKI or Rafale squadrons as WSOs.
I can't believe that without some source, it sounds way to simplified to ever be true.
Personnel assignments should be way more complicated in practice
All new aircraft are getting simulators. The old and experienced pilots still flying the Mig-21 don't need basic simulator training on the Bisons anymore.
New pilots use the Mig-21's also , i have heard of unnecessary crashes involving junior pilots.
Tejas squadrons can also be a great place for newer pilots to earn their stripes.
