Sukhoi PAK FA

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[bhramos]

 

[JBH22]

So what you are saying is that stealth fighters will only ever be used to fight either third world or small air forces that will not be able to produce / procure them? That is the assumption behind your post.

My point was, if all major air forces go for stealth, likelyhood of dogfights increases due to significant reduction in both detection ranges and missile acquisition / guidance ranges.

Dogfighting is here to stay.
If you noted during Feb 2019, once pakistan launched 24 aircrafts between detection and interception, it quickly shifted to melee. Neither Russian nor US BVR did what it was supposed to do. War will remain dirty.
The dirtier if you have a competent and determined opponent.
The idea that stealth is panacea for quick victory is and will remain an illusion for the following reasons;
1) Prohibitive cost of each 5th gen platform, no airforce can fully equip its forces with such planes. CErtainly not India
2) Training cycle; TO train and lose a pilot is some cost to the ex chequer.
3) Opex: maintenance cost is high for such platform.

 

[Super Flanker]

Regardless of whether we buy the SU-57 or not. One thing is for sure. This plane has a lot of potential for Improvement in it. This is one of my favourite Russian Aircrafts of all time! Vodka maro

 

[Trololo]

Regardless of whether we buy the SU-57 or not. One thing is for sure. This plane has a lot of potential for Improvement in it. This is one of my favourite Russian Aircrafts of all time! Vodka maro
View attachment 126028

Su 57 will never be a true 5th gen because its design inherently limits stealth. Having said that with good weapons and electronics it will be a formidable foe.

 

[Super Flanker]

Su 57 will never be a true 5th gen because its design inherently limits stealth. Having said that with good weapons and electronics it will be a formidable foe.

Yes. It was designed more of an Anti stealth Aircraft in my opinion. I agree that it isn't currently a true fifth generation fighter aircraft but the Russians knew that they won't be able to match the Stealth of Aircrafts like the F-22, F-35 Lighting Fighter Aircraft. So hence they Designed su-57 as an anti Stealth Aircraft considering That Russian doctrine is mostly Defensive in nature.

 

[Trololo]

Yes. It was designed more of an Anti stealth Aircraft in my opinion. I agree that it isn't currently a true fifth generation fighter aircraft but the Russians knew that they won't be able to match the Stealth of Aircrafts like the F-22, F-35 Lighting Fighter Aircraft. So hence they Designed su-57 as an anti Stealth Aircraft considering That Russian doctrine is mostly Defensive in nature.

Yes. Its designed to detect and shoot down incoming OPFOR stealth assets in conjunction with ground based EW and SAMs. Which is why stealth shape is frontal only. I remember Sukhoi's boss mentioning on Takeoff Magazine many years ago that the Su 57 is designed to meet the F22 head on and then defeat it in WVR.

 

[Super Flanker]

Yes. Its designed to detect and shoot down incoming OPFOR stealth assets in conjunction with ground based EW and SAMs. Which is why stealth shape is frontal only. I remember Sukhoi's boss mentioning on Takeoff Magazine many years ago that the Su 57 is designed to meet the F22 head on and then defeat it in WVR.

Yes

 

[bhramos]

Workers on assembly line of Su-57 use augmented reality

 

[Trololo]

Workers on assembly line of Su-57 use augmented reality

Its a good aid for the worker, but does it improve the plane's quality of construction or fit and finish?

 

[blackjack]

Su 57 will never be a true 5th gen because its design inherently limits stealth. Having said that with good weapons and electronics it will be a formidable foe.

I guess the Su-57 is still the biggest rage out there because I have noticed other stealth platforms like the LTS and Su-70 have not been criticized yet even though they also have huge market potential.

Its not like those aircrafts are not under the radar of U.S. aviation enthusiasts(good pun from me)

 

[blackjack]

 

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[Lonewolf]

View attachment 126423

U know russian isn't our first Language , can u please translate and then add photos


Edit:used Google lens now , issue resolved

 

[blackjack]

 

[blackjack]

bomb test fired.

 

[Sigmamale101]

battlefield keeps on evolving, stealth makes regular aircrafts obselete, photonic radar operated SAMs and near orbit aircrafts make stealth obselete its just the way things go

Photonic radars are a pipe dream in aircraft. Maybe in ground or ship based radar in future but not on planes.

 

[blackjack]

Photonic radars are a pipe dream in aircraft. Maybe in ground or ship based radar in future but not on planes.

The antenna sizes are as thin as paper giving a smart skin kind of option so in what way is it a pipe dream and even if it wasnt for aircrafts.......

https://rg.ru/2018/04/08/revoliuciia-v-tehnike-lokacii-v-rossii-sozdaetsia-radiofotonnaia-rls.html

For example, the basis of radar missile defense systems and tracking of space objects are huge radar complexes. The premises in which the equipment is located are multi-storey buildings. The use of photonic technologies will allow you to fit all the control and data processing systems in much smaller dimensions - literally in several rooms. At the same time, the technical capabilities of radars to detect even small objects at a distance of thousands of kilometers will only increase. Moreover, due to the use of photonic technologies on the radar screen, there will be not a mark of the target, but its image, which is unattainable by classical radar. That is, the operator instead of the usual glowing point will see what is really flying - an airplane, a rocket, a flock of birds or a meteorite, it is worth repeating, even thousands of kilometers from the radar.

On the screen of the photon radar will appear not the mark of the target, but its image, which is unattainable by classical radar.

Now all radar systems - military and civilian - operate in a strictly defined frequency range, which complicates the technical design and leads to a variety of radar nomenclature. Photonic radars will achieve the highest degree of unification. They are able to instantly rebuild in a very wide range of operating frequencies - from meter values to millimeters.

The characteristics of the S-500 Prometheus air defense system were announced
It has long been no secret that the so-called stealth aircraft are clearly visible in the meter range, but most accurately their coordinates are better given by stations of centimeter and millimeter ranges. Therefore, in air defense systems, meter stations with very large antennas work simultaneously, and more compact ones - centimeters. But the photonic radar, scanning space in the long frequency range, will easily detect the same "invisible" and, instantly adjusting to a broadband signal and high frequency, will determine its exact coordinates in height and range.

https://rg.ru/2018/04/22/radiofotonika-stanet-drajverom-sovremennoj-radioelektroniki.html

Developments in the field of radiophotonics go in several directions. Is there anything out there? Absolutely. For example, in the Research Institute of Long-Range Radio Communication under the leadership of Alexei Shulunov, a prototype of a radiophotonic radar has already been assembled. This is an X-band radar with an optical heterodyne, which can be rebuilt in the widest range of radio waves - from meter frequencies to millimeter.

According to experts, it is the ability of radiophotonic radars to instantly rebuild in the widest frequency range that will change the entire radar technology, including the construction of various radar complexes.

ground radars can share this information to their aircrafts so whoever has the longest range air to air missiles wins

 

[Sigmamale101]

but most accurately their coordinates are better given by stations of centimeter and millimeter ranges.
But the photonic radar, scanning space in the long frequency range, will easily detect the same "invisible" and, instantly adjusting to a broadband signal and high frequency, will determine its exact coordinates in height and range.

This is the problem. Basic rule when comes to radars.... Higher frequency...better resolution, higher bandwidth, lower noise floor etc but less range + more power requirements.

Photonic radars work on very high frequency range W band ( 80 to 110 GHz )...

due to very higher atmospheric attenuation in 60 GHz & 110 GHz + range

there is a small window between these absorption peaks with less atmospheric attenuation and greater range...also
millimeter waved are of same size as raindrops....so precipitation cause additional attenuation due to scattering (rain fade) as well as absorption so a radar working at say 100 Ghz will be subjected to 25 times greater attenuation (one way) than an X band working on 10 GHz. For a radar receiving reflected signal that’s 50 times greater attenuation.

This mean you need 50 time more power to have comparable range of an X band radar. For example to have same range let say 400km for a radar which has 20 kW peak power...... photonic radar would require somewhere around 1 MW power. 1 MW power on a fighter jet ? good luck with that.

 

[blackjack]

This is the problem. Basic rule when comes to radars.... Higher frequency...better resolution, higher bandwidth, lower noise floor etc but less range + more power requirements.

Photonic radars work on very high frequency range W band ( 80 to 110 GHz )...

due to very higher atmospheric attenuation in 60 GHz & 110 GHz + range

there is a small window between these absorption peaks with less atmospheric attenuation and greater range...also
millimeter waved are of same size as raindrops....so precipitation cause additional attenuation due to scattering (rain fade) as well as absorption so a radar working at say 100 Ghz will be subjected to 25 times greater attenuation (one way) than an X band working on 10 GHz. For a radar receiving reflected signal that’s 50 times greater attenuation.

This mean you need 50 time more power to have comparable range of an X band radar. For example to have same range let say 400km for a radar which has 20 kW peak power...... photonic radar would require somewhere around 1 MW power. 1 MW power on a fighter jet ? good luck with that.

Conventional radars are entirely different from photonic radars where photodetectors are used to multiply frequency without any decibel losses. Conventional radars are also restricted with antenna sizes photonic radars are not. You might find the 1st operational one which will be the Yakhroma radar where it can work in the meter and millimeter range, better yet have you ever heard of any military radar operating in millimeter waves?