Sukhoi PAK FA

[panzerfeist1]

Hi everyone I'm new here, I wonder is it really India quite the PAK-FA project?? If yes could you please explain why!!
I've just read in one site, so I decided to ask you guys is it true or not!
Sorry for my bad English, it's my second language.

India and Russia have their own stories.

India stated it was not stealth enough even, though I am wondering if they have ever compared another 5th aircraft in a anechoic chamber to make that assumption, or even own one themselves during that time(Turkey had yet to construct their chambers before starting TAI TFX) and of course visual appearance is not enough because if it was than we can all say that the KTK-02 Kantanka from Ghana is as stealth as the F-117 in appearance.

Russia does not trust India enough for a tech transfer of the Su-57 which resulted in cancellation according to them and it was not the only time Russia did not hold trust with India based on their previous accusations.

'No question of letting US officials near INS Chakra': India dismisses Russian reports | India News - Times of India (indiatimes.com)

 

[LegendaryR3D]

Hi everyone I'm new here, I wonder is it really India quite the PAK-FA project?? If yes could you please explain why!!
I've just read in one site, so I decided to ask you guys is it true or not!
Sorry for my bad English, it's my second language.

India has better technology in development now than Russia, and no longer needs another overpriced joint-partnership.

 

[bhramos]

#Russia’s Su-57 Has the Highest Weapons Carriage of Any Fifth Generation Fighter - and the Longest Engagement Range

 

[StealthFlanker]

#Russia’s Su-57 Has the Highest Weapons Carriage of Any Fifth Generation Fighter - and the Longest Engagement Range

Su-57 can't carry 10 AAM missile internally, its total quantity of internal long range AAM load is actually same as F-22, J-20, F-35 block 4 which is 6 missiles.
Also quite questionable that its missile has longest engagement range, on one hand, R-37 is a big missile, on the other hand missile such as Meteor and PL-21 will have very long range due to their nature of being ramjet missile and can throttle back to extend range
For air to ground missile:

 

[panzerfeist1]

If we want to be super accurate as of now as in not talking about future air to air missile loadouts, but the present here you go.

(1709) Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 9 (russiadefence.net)

If we are talking about the future with newer generation air to air missiles than a 8 air to air missile loadout is possible as much as the F-35 getting a 6 air to air missile configuration.

With folding wings(assuming the new air to air missiles are this)

latest news on Su-57 weapons. KTRV launched mass production of new generation corrected aerial bombs (topwar.ru)

KTRV launched mass production of new generation corrected aerial bombs

The Tactical Missile Armament Corporation has completed testing of new-generation gliding ammunition and has begun their serial production. Boris Obnosov, the general director of KTRV, told about this in an interview with the "Military-Industrial Courier".

According to the head of the company, last year KTRV completed work on gliding ammunition of 250, 500 and 1500 kg caliber, launching the serial production of new generation corrected aerial bombs. The company has signed long-term contracts for the supply of a new generation of ammunition to the Russian Aerospace Forces, bombs are already entering service with the Russian military aviation .

We have made very serious progress in the past year in the production of precisely corrected aerial bombs of the KAB series. Both in their quality and quantity. The tests of a new generation of planning ammunition of calibers 250, 500 and 1500 kilograms have been completed, long-term contracts have been concluded for their supply - said Obnosov.

The general director of KTRV also said that tests of the promising KAB-250LG-E with a laser homing head and high-explosive fragmentation warhead, as well as other ammunition developed for the fifth generation Su-57 fighter, are proceeding according to schedule. In addition, at the final stage of testing are new UPAB caliber 500 and 1500 kilograms with a television guidance head.

The head of KTRV announced the completion of work and obtaining permission for serial production of a new adjustable aerial bomb of 250 kg caliber at the end of last summer. At the same time, he promised that by the end of 2020 the company will complete three topics on air-to-air missiles, on corrected air bombs of 1500 and 500 kg, on air-to-surface products and several more projects

 

[StealthFlanker]

If we want to be super accurate as of now as in not talking about future air to air missile loadouts, but the present here you go.

View attachment 75358

(1709) Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6 - Page 9 (russiadefence.net)

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7978p200-su-57-stealth-fighter-news-6
In current configuration Su-57 carry 4 medium/long range AAM + 2 short range AAM internally
F-35 carry 4 medium/long range AAM
F-22 carry 6 medium/long range AAM +2 short range AAM
J-20 carry 4 medium/long range AAM + 2 short range AAM
So Su-57 doesn't carry more missile than its counterpart

If we are talking about the future with newer generation air to air missiles than a 8 air to air missile loadout is possible as much as the F-35 getting a 6 air to air missile configuration.

View attachment 75359

With folding wings(assuming the new air to air missiles are this)

View attachment 75386

latest news on Su-57 weapons. KTRV launched mass production of new generation corrected aerial bombs (topwar.ru)

KTRV launched mass production of new generation corrected aerial bombs

The Tactical Missile Armament Corporation has completed testing of new-generation gliding ammunition and has begun their serial production. Boris Obnosov, the general director of KTRV, told about this in an interview with the "Military-Industrial Courier".

According to the head of the company, last year KTRV completed work on gliding ammunition of 250, 500 and 1500 kg caliber, launching the serial production of new generation corrected aerial bombs. The company has signed long-term contracts for the supply of a new generation of ammunition to the Russian Aerospace Forces, bombs are already entering service with the Russian military aviation .

We have made very serious progress in the past year in the production of precisely corrected aerial bombs of the KAB series. Both in their quality and quantity. The tests of a new generation of planning ammunition of calibers 250, 500 and 1500 kilograms have been completed, long-term contracts have been concluded for their supply - said Obnosov.

The general director of KTRV also said that tests of the promising KAB-250LG-E with a laser homing head and high-explosive fragmentation warhead, as well as other ammunition developed for the fifth generation Su-57 fighter, are proceeding according to schedule. In addition, at the final stage of testing are new UPAB caliber 500 and 1500 kilograms with a television guidance head.

The head of KTRV announced the completion of work and obtaining permission for serial production of a new adjustable aerial bomb of 250 kg caliber at the end of last summer. At the same time, he promised that by the end of 2020 the company will complete three topics on air-to-air missiles, on corrected air bombs of 1500 and 500 kg, on air-to-surface products and several more projects

In future configuration (not counting SACM and Cuda like things on US aircraft)
Su-57 carry 6 medium/long range AAM + 2 short range AAM
F-35 carry 6 medium/long range AAM
F-22 carry 6 medium/long range AAM + 2 short range AAM
J-20 carry 6 medium/long range AAM + 2 short range AAM
So again, Su-57 still doesn't carry more missiles than its counterpart F-22 and J-20 . Sure it can carry 2 more short range missile compared to F-35, but that is not even remotely close to the claimed 250% of F-35 load out as mentioned in the article

 

[panzerfeist1]

In current configuration Su-57 carry 4 medium/long range AAM + 2 short range AAM internally
F-35 carry 4 medium/long range AAM
F-22 carry 6 medium/long range AAM +2 short range AAM
J-20 carry 4 medium/long range AAM + 2 short range AAM
So Su-57 doesn't carry more missile than its counterpart

In future configuration,
Su-57 carry 6 medium/long range AAM + 2 short range AAM
F-35 carry 6 medium/long range AAM
F-22 carry 6 medium/long range AAM + 2 short range AAM
J-20 carry 6 medium/long range AAM + 2 short range AAM
So again, Su-57 still doesn't carry more missiles than its counterpart

Wait whats going on here are we comparing a multirole to one that is limited in air to air roles or comparing two different multirole aircrafts here? The newer generation missiles will help us determine the loadout.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Wait whats going on here are we comparing a multirole to one that is limited in air to air roles or comparing two different multirole aircrafts here? The newer generation missiles will help us determine the loadout.

If you go in the link that Brahmos posted, you will understand what I'm talking about.
The comparison was between Su-57, F-22, J-20 and F-35

 

[panzerfeist1]

If you go in the link that Brahmos posted, you will understand what I'm talking about.
The comparison was between Su-57, F-22, J-20 and F-35

so of those 3 aircrafts only one is limited to a air to air role? I am just shocked with your term of using counterpart when comparing different role aircrafts.

I would not dismiss a 10 missile loadout depending on what new generation of missile it is. I remember being the only user back at key aero that suggested the SU-70 will have a air to air role that was dismissed and if we look at the present we can see how that has turned out.

 

[panzerfeist1]

Also quite questionable that its missile has longest engagement range, on one hand, R-37 is a big missile, on the other hand missile such as Meteor and PL-21 will have very long range due to their nature of being ramjet missile and can throttle back to extend range

Does the meteor or PL-21 have a 400km range? I think we went over this not too long ago. until my last response is do you hate ho chi minh.

 

[StealthFlanker]

so of those 3 aircrafts only one is limited to a air to air role? I am just shocked with your term of using counterpart when comparing different role aircrafts.
I would not dismiss a 10 missile loadout depending on what new generation of missile it is. I remember being the only user back at key aero that suggested the SU-70 will have a air to air role that was dismissed and if we look at the present we can see how that has turned out.

None of them are purely fighter, even F-22 can do air to ground role with GBU-39+ SAR and GMTI mode. I used counterpart here as in stealth fighter
The thing is there is no missiles that allow 10 missiles internal load on Su-57 yet, there isn't any plan to increase the number of internal rack to do that yet. And if we truly taking into account these hypothetical load out that isn't mentioned yet, then we must also take into account missile like Cuda or SACM, so really, Su-57 still doesn't carry more AAM than its counterpart like they are implied

 

[panzerfeist1]

Dont forget to add the K-77ME and AIM-260 with the Meteor in size reference I don't want anyone to think you have some kind of bias. PL-21 is like 5.5 meters long on google search. Not even the Meteor or K-37M are that big.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Does the meteor or PL-21 have a 400km range?

Depends, at what altitude and what launch speed? what is the altitude and speed of targets?

I think we went over this not too long ago. until my last response is do you hate ho chi minh.

50:50, I don't hate or like him, he is a generic figure just like Stalin, Obama or Putin. I couldn't care less about them

 

[StealthFlanker]

Dont forget to add the K-77ME and AIM-260 with the Meteor in size reference I don't want anyone to think you have some kind of bias. PL-21 is like 5.5 meters long on google search. Not even the Meteor or K-37M are that big.

There is literally no information about AIM-260, so it is impossible to make any kind of comparison
K-77ME is a ramjet K-77, so parobably same range as JNAAM and Meteor
PL-21 is long and very thin, so I think its with have longest range due to low drag

 

[panzerfeist1]

None of them are purely fighter, even F-22 can do air to ground role with GBU-39+ SAR and GMTI mode. I used counterpart here as in stealth fighter

Just bombs yippee.

The thing is there is no missiles that allow 10 missiles internal load on Su-57 yet, there isn't any plan to increase the number of internal rack to do that yet. And if we truly taking into account these hypothetical load out that isn't mentioned yet, then we must also take into account missile like Cuda or SACM, so really, Su-57 still doesn't carry more AAM than its counterpart like they are implied

Nope we cant decline such an option depending if the newer generation Su-57 has different different racks or folding fins for air to air missiles, there are users that think it has a 12 missile loadout but I am not one of them. Seeing the pantsir quad missile size in comparison to MSDM I am not ruling out a CUDA type configuration for the Su-57 either.

 

[panzerfeist1]

Depends, at what altitude and what launch speed? what is the altitude and speed of targets?

ranges for PL-21 are 400km but of course the K-37M has this with but with a smaller size. Meteor at max shows me 220kms and that has yet to be determined in comparison the AIM-260 and both K-77M versions.

There is literally no information about AIM-260, so it is impossible to make any kind of comparison
K-77ME is a ramjet K-77, so parobably same range as JNAAM and Meteor
PL-21 is long and very thin, so I think its with have longest range due to low drag

PL-21 is 300kg heavier than the K-37M so the diameter didnt help much but hey that aint bad for them.

 

[panzerfeist1]

It even looks like the PL-21 is getting close to matching the GZUR scramjet missile since that missile weighs around 1,500kg with mach 1-2+ faster speeds, 0.5 meter added length, but of course it has to have a decent heavy warhead since its being equipped with bombers.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Nope we cant decline such an option depending if the newer generation Su-57 has different different racks or folding fins for air to air missiles, there are users that think it has a 12 missile loadout but I am not one of them. Seeing the pantsir quad missile size in comparison to MSDM I am not ruling out a CUDA type configuration for the Su-57 either.

There is not even a real photo of MSDN yet so it kinda pointless to talking about it at this point, we can indeed decline option like 10 missiles internally for Su-57 since there isn't even a program of record for that yet, no mini missile, no additional rack, so there isn't really any point mentioning the hypothetical load that pretty much only appearing in forum discussion.
Do you see anyone claimed F-35 has 12 AAM internally? eventhough SACM, Cuda , peregrine missile are all program of record?. Obviously not, because their fate aren't too certain at this point. The 10 missiles internal load for Su-57 is even worse because it isn't even a program of record

 

[StealthFlanker]

ranges for PL-21 are 400km but of course the K-37M has this with but with a smaller size. Meteor at max shows me 220kms and that has yet to be determined in comparison the AIM-260 and both K-77M versions.

Quite strange that you fully believe K-77ME can reach 300-400 km but doesn't believe Meteor can do the same, eventhough they practically same class

PL-21 is 300kg heavier than the K-37M so the diameter didnt help much but hey that aint bad for them.

being heavier isn't always a bad thing when it come to range, since it give missiles more momentum. But bigger cross section is bad because that increase drag without benefit

 

[panzerfeist1]

There is not even a real photo of MSDN yet so it kinda pointless to talking about it at this point, we can indeed decline option like 10 missiles internally for Su-57 since there isn't even a program of record for that yet, no mini missile, no additional rack, so there isn't really any point mentioning the hypothetical load that pretty much only appearing in forum discussion.

you sure about that? https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidh...-for-miniature-self-defense-missile-for-jets/ That is not the only source that has said one meter. Also I do not know if you got the memo yet but there is a 2nd variant Su-57 conducting tests based on new avionics, new weapons and new engines.

Do you see anyone claimed F-35 has 12 AAM internally? eventhough SACM, Cuda , peregrine missile are all program of record?. Obviously not, because their fate aren't too certain at this point. The 10 missiles internal load for Su-57 is even worse because it isn't even a program of record

I was still talking about the Su-57 but of course you cant determine what new missiles are either of if or the time and date without delay if those missiles will even be fielded. Go click on the russia defense net link to see that discussion. I am only giving a 10 air missile option but your still not explaining why that is not feasible.

Quite strange that you fully believe K-77ME can reach 300-400 km but doesn't believe Meteor can do the same, eventhough they practically same class

No I like my chances on the range estimates of the K-77M versions in comparison to Meteor missile. I am well aware of the Meteor's missiles range from one of your own sources. Don't mix up the K-77M to me referencing the range of K-37M.

being heavier isn't always a bad thing when it come to range, since it give missiles more momentum. But bigger cross section is bad because that increase drag without benefit

It gives no option for a internal weapons bay placement despite being the same range as the K-37M. Unless the Chinese and the U.S. with the HAWC program are all like fuck stealth.