Sukhoi PAK FA

Arihant Roy

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An ultra high res pic of the first or technically speaking second serially produced Su-57.

Just look at the surface smoothness. Instead of several small composite panels, large area panels have been used which have reduced the no of fasteners and rivets.

277093.jpg
 

SKC

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An ultra high res pic of the first or technically speaking second serially produced Su-57.

Just look at the surface smoothness. Instead of several small composite panels, large area panels have been used which have reduced the no of fasteners and rivets.

View attachment 71580
From the top the fit and finish was looking unlike a soviet or Russian plane for the first time. But from below it is same old Russian manufacturing. The problem with missile bay doors not aligning properly still looks to be present. Even the Indian serviced Su and Migs looks better then Russian ones. They need to work a lot on their manufacturing practices.
 

Neptune

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From the top the fit and finish was looking unlike a soviet or Russian plane for the first time. But from below it is same old Russian manufacturing. The problem with missile bay doors not aligning properly still looks to be present. Even the Indian serviced Su and Migs looks better then Russian ones. They need to work a lot on their manufacturing practices.

It has nothing to do with alignment, the weapons bays have a tapered inner edge hence the look or appearance of a gap. The alignment on everything seems very good on the serial model. Some of the earlier prototypes had some poor quality but that was mostly because they used old manufacturing techniques just for the sake of getting the aircraft airborne to test aerodynamics, avionics and performance.


The lower part of the fuselage, specifically the cowlings, resembles the SU-30/27 but I would not say the manufacturing techniques or materials are the same. The criticism I have is some panels, still don’t have the sawtooth edges; I think this makes it look more antiquated. It’s very annoying and confusing how Sukhoi decided the add serrations to some panels but not others.


Here is a close up of the underside of the mid fuselage:

E367ACA6-9FFE-4D14-AE26-8258A9464D17.jpeg



The quality seems really good, but again the lack of serrations are present. I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that Sukhoi still has round protruding censors, some fanboys will make wild excuses that somehow RAM will magically negate the shape but that is delusional and not based on reality and science.

As for HAL manufacturing, I don’t see where you get the idea that HAL manufactured Sukhoi have some better manufacturing techniques, if anything there has been a number of Indian built Sukhois that crashed due to Indian components/QC.
 

Neptune

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Interesting picture LMFS/ @panzerfeist1 posted on another forum:

Looks to show serrations in front of random on older prototype. Sukhoi didn’t use those serrations on serial model. Makes one wonder why? It helps with RCS since the MiG-29K and MiG-35 uses those serrations around the random while Rafale has hundreds of those serrations on the lower fuselage, intakes, canards and trailing edges. The J-20 also treated its canards with similar serrations. Perhaps Sukhoi discovered those serrations made little difference but then that doesn’t explain why other aircraft, even conventional ones like MiG-29s, use those serrations.

Conventional wisdom would indicate if more serrations are used on the SU-57, the lower the RCS will become. In my opinion if the SU-57 treated its random, LEVCONs, frontal canopy, access panels, rear engine nacelles, and fuselage just in front of the horizontal stabilizers, then the RCS would decrease a substantial amount. Let’s see if any future SU-57 upgrades will incorporate these changes.



D650BC5E-F420-4D18-B334-75F839D17959.png
DABAD107-4161-4AA5-9476-C775A38CFAEB.jpeg
 

Arihant Roy

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From the top the fit and finish was looking unlike a soviet or Russian plane for the first time. But from below it is same old Russian manufacturing. The problem with missile bay doors not aligning properly still looks to be present. Even the Indian serviced Su and Migs looks better then Russian ones. They need to work a lot on their manufacturing practices.
Nope you are mistaken. Compare this with a phase 1 airframe. All those counter sunk rivets have been adequately treated and sealants applied at the necessary edges and gaps.
 

panzerfeist1

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@Neptune I have just found out that the TAI TFX also carries the same kind of IRST shape as the Su-57, does Turkey possess Anechoic chambers or thoughts on their decision?
 

Neptune

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@Neptune I have just found out that the TAI TFX also carries the same kind of IRST shape as the Su-57, does Turkey possess Anechoic chambers or thoughts on their decision?

I don’t know much about the TAI TFX, only that it looks a lot like the F-22 but Turkey is at least a few decades away from fielding the aircraft since Turkey doesn’t have the ability to make most of the critical components of the aircraft. Either way it’s just a mock up from what I know and I don’t see any IRST on it. Mind posting a picture of that IRST?

Anechoic chambers are not that rare, I suspect Turks have a least one since they have supposedly developed or at least modified radars.
 

panzerfeist1

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I don’t know much about the TAI TFX, only that it looks a lot like the F-22 but Turkey is at least a few decades away from fielding the aircraft since Turkey doesn’t have the ability to make most of the critical components of the aircraft. Either way it’s just a mock up from what I know and I don’t see any IRST on it. Mind posting a picture of that IRST?

Anechoic chambers are not that rare, I suspect Turks have a least one since they have supposedly developed or at least modified radars.
They only have design concepts of it, Just wondering if a 6 face polygon sapphire glass puts in extra costs or if that shape folds back in on the F-35 if it was to get a DIRCM and eventually use it.

TAI-TFX-IRST.jpg


TAI TFX IRST 2.jpg
 

panzerfeist1

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Also a random question for anyone in the board lets say the Su-57's 2nd variant gets equipped with ROFAR can it engage air to air missiles with the 30mm rounds from the 9-a1-4071k cannon which has a max 1.2km range engaging aerial targets, like tracking an inbound air to air missile at a 5-10km range or farther before firing.

I heard that the 26.5–40 GHz T-14 AESA radar as an APS can track 40 airborne or 25 ground targets down to 0.3 m in size. There was even a news report that the T-14 can even use the Kord gun to engage a shell or missile. http://oruzhie.info/tanki/628-t-14-armata So if it gets bumped up to using 100ghz is that accuracy enough for the Su-57 to use its guns? Or do they need to go higher in frequency? https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...er_Radars_to_Detect_Small_Drones#.X-d9NzSSnIU like 300ghz for example. https://www.translatorscafe.com/uni... case of electromagnetic,by 10⁸ Hz = 3 meters.
 

Ayushraj

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If we fund Russian sukhoi su57 program. It's just a suicide on our won self. Plaaf bought su-27 (Chinese reverse enginneered j11) , su-30(Chinese j-16), su-33(j15). Plaaf also bought su-35. Just like all these sukhoi were sold to China and afterwards they were reverse enginneered. Same would happen with su-57.
 

silentlurker

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Also a random question for anyone in the board lets say the Su-57's 2nd variant gets equipped with ROFAR can it engage air to air missiles with the 30mm rounds from the 9-a1-4071k cannon which has a max 1.2km range engaging aerial targets, like tracking an inbound air to air missile at a 5-10km range or farther before firing.

I heard that the 26.5–40 GHz T-14 AESA radar as an APS can track 40 airborne or 25 ground targets down to 0.3 m in size. There was even a news report that the T-14 can even use the Kord gun to engage a shell or missile. http://oruzhie.info/tanki/628-t-14-armata So if it gets bumped up to using 100ghz is that accuracy enough for the Su-57 to use its guns? Or do they need to go higher in frequency? https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...er_Radars_to_Detect_Small_Drones#.X-d9NzSSnIU like 300ghz for example. https://www.translatorscafe.com/unit-converter/en-US/frequency-wavelength/5-29/gigahertz-wavelength in centimetres/#:~:text=In the case of electromagnetic,by 10⁸ Hz = 3 meters.
 

silentlurker

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Sorry, hit enter before ready:

1800 RPM, so around 30 RPS. You're gun target so its a headon engage. Lets say Su57 at 1500kph. Incoming missile 2000kph (Mach2?) Close rate 972m/s. Even at a detection from 10km, thats 10 seconds to vector toward the missile and line up the gun exactly... It would have to be computer-aided/controlled and even then I don't think it would be reliable. Maybe a last resort measure when you get caught by surprise head-on?
 

panzerfeist1

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Jesus Christ what is with every user getting a ban here, I dont think it could be worse than a admin and a user talking about Nigeria at another forum in a Su-57 thread
 

panzerfeist1

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I am sure this has been argued before on why the Su-57 didn't get flat nozzles. Heat / IR sig reduction system for Su-57. According to the chart, it reduces the IR sig from the engine exhaust by 3 - 3.5 times. Details are classified but it's assumed an aerosol substance is injected into the exhaust. Thanks to magnum @russiadefensenet. according to said user he said the USSR developed flat nozzles and used them on a testbed Su-27, and found that it reduced thrust by 15%

su-57 exhaust.jpg
 

Cruise missile

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Jesus Christ what is with every user getting a ban here, I dont think it could be worse than a admin and a user talking about Nigeria at another forum in a Su-57 thread
Bcz our moderator is one sissy guy with low sense of humour.
 

panzerfeist1

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Bcz our moderator is one sissy guy with low sense of humour.
Easy there, I do not want another ban for you in case he pops his head here :rofl: I tried IP/MAC address changing to get different accounts at other certain forums, but they deny session cookies and if you dont accept the forum tracking your sessions than I believe that would give the forum a red flag that they know you are using things like Nord VPN, Opera, etc(which i believe deny session tracking cookies). so I am wondering if I can fool spacebattle/(haven't tried secretprojects) again for some other time by just keeping the tracking cookies and having a different IP and MAC address that does not immediately change periodically.

Old news but relevant news regarding where countries are at in hypersonic air to ground missiles which can be important to what the Su-57 can use.

(2292) Tu-22M3: News - Page 27 (russiadefence.net)

About Gzur

From Macks 2013

“I’m not trying to get ahead of ourselves,” says Boris Obnosov, “but we looked at all our developments and came to the conclusion that it is necessary to consolidate all efforts. And not only because it is one of the priority tasks for Russia. Speaking of hypersound, we must bear in mind first of all a long-term flight in the atmosphere with speeds exceeding 4–5 M. We have products that fly today at a significantly higher speed, but this is either ballistic descent or its varieties. And we are talking about a controlled flight in the atmosphere with speeds of 6–7 M, in the future - 10–12 M ”.

There is no end to work,” Obnosov emphasizes. - It all depends on the speed that is set. If we talk about 4-5 M, then the ramjet engine with subsonic combustion (Ramget) for today is fully developed. The corporation mastered it, we, together with NPO Mashinostroenie, Lytkara enterprise Soyuz, are pioneers here.

If you go to higher speeds, it is necessary to achieve normal operation of the supersonic combustion engine (Scramjet)"

Испытания новой гиперзвуковой авиационной ракеты с бомбардировщика Ту-22М3 - bmpd — LiveJournal

"In the Western press it was reported that the GSUR is a missile with a speed of MI6 and with a range of 1500 km when flying on a high-altitude

profile. The missile is 6 metres long and weighs about 1,500 kg. The missile is equipped with a direct air-jet engine "Product 70" developed by Soyuz TMKB in Turaevo, and is equipped with a combined active-passive radar homing head known as "Grana-75" which is being developed by the Ural Design And Design Bureau "Detail" in Kamensk-Uralsky; Broadband passive channel ("Fringe-75PC") for this homing head is created by the Central Design Bureau of Automation (CCBA) in Omsk. The "Granya-75" refers to the modification of the "Granya-K" homing head used in the tactical anti-ship missile X-35U.

"In 2017, the Western press reported that, according to sources in the Russian industry, by 2020 it was assumed that the rocket of the ENVISAGE will be serially produced at a rate of "up to 50 products per year." Thus, the missile was in the test phase in 2017, but the above-mentioned TASS report indicates that the tests are not yet complete.

At a conference of representatives of the aviation industry in Moscow in April 2013, the former commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, Colonel-General Alexander Selin, said that at that time Russia was implementing a two-stage program for the development of air hypersonic missiles (apparently, we are referring only to missiles with PVRDGPRD).

The first phase envisaged the development of a "compact operational and tactical aircraft missile with a range of 1,500 km and a speed of 6 Makhov" by 2020; this is the aforementioned GUPR. It should be supplemented in the next decade with a weapon with a global range of MI12."
Not to get mixed up with the Kinzhal in 2018

Russia tests new hypersonic missile designed for Tu-22M3M strategic bomber - source - Military & Defense - TASS

"Recently, a new hypersonic missile was tested on the Tu-22M3. The missile will be part of the armament range of the upgraded Tu-22M3M along with a number of other latest aviation weapons," the source said.

According to the source, the work on the new missile began several years ago. Its tests should be completed simultaneously with the work on the upgraded Tu-22M3M bomber.

He clarified that this missile does not belong to the line of X-32 missiles, noting that it is "completely different." The official did not name the characteristics of the new missile.

The Kinzhal is the latest Russian airborne system that consists of a MiG-31K aircraft as a delivery vehicle and a hypersonic missile. According to media reports, a Kinzhal missile is the airborne version of the Iskander tactical missile system. Another hypersonic missile was created for the Su-57 fifth-generation fighter. Missile name and characteristics are unknown.


Would not recommend posting any above info at sino defense or secretprojects if you feel like you want to have long lasting accounts over there. Rather if some don't believe internal hypersonic air to ground missile projects for the Su-57 the 6 meter GZUR(scramjet estimated at mach 6-7) is a good external carry option like the HAWC for the F-35. Though I am wondering how much the 6 meter length could be decreased by to fit in the Su-57 bay just to get the range to 500kms instead of 1,500kms?
 

Salyut1

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I am sure this has been argued before on why the Su-57 didn't get flat nozzles. Heat / IR sig reduction system for Su-57. According to the chart, it reduces the IR sig from the engine exhaust by 3 - 3.5 times. Details are classified but it's assumed an aerosol substance is injected into the exhaust. Thanks to magnum @russiadefensenet. according to said user he said the USSR developed flat nozzles and used them on a testbed Su-27, and found that it reduced thrust by 15%

View attachment 71915
I think the two things Sukhoi has traded for are S Duct, and the flat nozzle for the engine, in exchange for a larger armory and maneuverability for the aircraft. I think they can easily do it, because they already have prototypes!


On the sidelines, where can I complain about an account?
 

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