Sukhoi PAK FA

[Karthi]

Speculated Radar blocker of Su57 each vane has S Shape so effectively it can act as similar like S Duct . And numerous S vanes makes sure about the scattering of Radar Waves even more than Single S Duct . May be I am wrong.

 

[bhramos]

Russia starts building Naval Su-57k prototype

 

[StealthFlanker]

View attachment 70465

Speculated Radar blocker of Su57 each vane has S Shape so effectively it can act as similar like S Duct . And numerous S vanes makes sure about the scattering of Radar Waves even more than Single S Duct . May be I am wrong.

With that design, you run into the issue of wavelength vs hole gap. When the radiowave has bigger wavelength than the gap/holes, the specular return effectively reflected of the gap as if that a flat surface. The easiest way to imagine it is by looking at any microwave oven. You will see them all have a metal screen that allowed you to see your food and yet the radiation doesn’t burn your face off. The channel gap of the blocker can never be as big as the whole inlet itself, so the effective bandwidth can never be as wide as an S-duct inlet. While it can still be effective against fighter radar which have short wavelength, it is unlikely to be effective against AEW&C or ground radar

 

[lcafanboy]

Folding wings.....

 

[Karthi]

With that design, you run into the issue of wavelength vs hole gap. When the radiowave has bigger wavelength than the gap/holes, the specular return effectively reflected of the gap as if that a flat surface. The easiest way to imagine it is by looking at any microwave oven. You will see them all have a metal screen that allowed you to see your food and yet the radiation doesn’t burn your face off. The channel gap of the blocker can never be as big as the whole inlet itself, so the effective bandwidth can never be as wide as an S-duct inlet. While it can still be effective against fighter radar which have short wavelength, it is unlikely to be effective against AEW&C or ground radar
View attachment 70484

Depends on the material , Absorbing coatings etc . If that logic none of the fighters are Stealthy , if we use wavelength to cover the entire body of F22 then it will appear in Radar screen . I think even this Radar blocker can be optimised for different purposes.

 

[panzerfeist1]

I don't think you understand my comment and how ramjet engine work
A normal rocket motor such as the one on R-77-1, AIM-120C, has a fixed burn rate, that mean the thrust remain relative constant regardless of velocity , altitude. You always burn through your fuel for the same amount of time, in short the burn time is a constant value. But this as a disadvantage, once missile climbed to high altitude, you don't need high thrust because the drag is lower, so your high thrust is wasted
A two thrust rocket motor such as the one on K-77M, AIM-120A/B has two mode of operation, the boost stage and the sustain stage. After the missile is boosted in the initial acceleration, the boost stage run out and you have the sustain stage to save fuel for high altitude flight. But just like before, you can't adjust the fuel flow rate. The burn rate of both your boost stage and your sustain stage are different but they are also a fixed value. However, the air density isn't a constant variable but it change with altitude. 30k ft, 45k ft, 60 kft all have different air density so with a fixed burn rate your fuel flow isn't optimized
A ramjet engine is an air breathing engine, it doesn't carry oxidizer inside so you can carry more fuel. Secondly, a ramjet engine like any air breathing engine, can adjust its thrust by changing the fuel flow rate. This ability to control the fuel flow is called the throttle ability. If the missile is at low altitude, then the thrust can remain high, if the missile is at high altitude then the it reduce the thrust. If target is 20 km from your aircraft then the thrust is very high for acceleration. If target is 200 km from your aircraft then the thrust is low for sustain. For example, F-15 has top speed of Mach 2.5 and maximum combat radius of 2037 km but do you think it can fly the maximum combat radius with top speed?. It doesn't. Maximum range isn't achieve with maximum speed and vice versa. How much your missile can reduce fuel flow depend on a quantity called the turn down/throttle ratio, the bigger this ratio is, the wider range of thrust that your missile can operate at. The lower the thrust, the lower the fuel consumption, but come with that is lower speed. To sum up, your ramjet missile, whether it is K-77ME, Meteor, Klevok-D2 , Onyx-M or Brahmos, you can either have the range or the speed, but not both at the same time.

Let me pull up some sources anyways on those missiles because I still think it is a little important, they do have air breathing missile projects coming out of the ears anways so here we go.

https://www.russiadefence.net/t2758p450-russia-us-and-other-developments-in-hypersonic-research There is a 6 meter long 3 ton scramjet UAV. Now between the scramjet engine and booster by just looking at those pictures the booster will be over 3 meters while the scramjet engine will be less than 3 meters. Since the booster is mach 3-4 the requirements of a scramjet are mach 5+.

I am not trying to score brownie points for indian users on a india defense forum, but I personally think India is 2nd place behind Russia in air-breathing missiles.

Defense World

View News at Defense World

www.defenseworld.net

"BrahMos-NG will have same 290 km range and mach 3.5 speed but it will weigh around 1.5 tons, 5 meters in length and 50 cm in diameter, making BrahMos-NG 50 percent lighter and three meters shorter than its predecessor."

And of course the warhead weight will be the same. Also I am not trying to pull your leg here

Air to Air Brahmos missile will be ready by 2024: Latest News

“Brahmos” is India’s most advanced cruise missile, supersonic “Brahmos” cruise missiles are currently available in two versions: anti-ship version

www.defenceaviationpost.com

Boost To India’s Air Defence: BrahMos Aerospace To Develop Anti-AWACS Missile With Over 400 Km-Range For IAF

The BrahMos Aersopace, an Indo-Russian joint venture, is mulling on developing an air-to-air version of the BrahMos missile that will be able to destroy airbone warning and control systems (AWACS), reports Sputnik News

swarajyamag.com

The BrahMos Aerospace, which has developed world’s fastest cruise missile BrahMos, is a joint venture between the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) of India and the Federal State Unitary Enterprise NPO Mashinostroyenia of Russia.

According to the report, the company will soon conduct test of the anti-AWACS missile that will have a range in excess of 400-500 km.

“We are thinking to develop the air-to-air version with anti-AWACS capability. The range can be in excess of 400-500 km and the test will be sometime in the near future,” BrahMos chief executive officer (CEO) Sudhir Kumar Mishra said in an interview.

Sadly no speed estimates but an eye to keep on later.

BrahMos Supersonic Cruise Missile Gets 500km Range

India and Russia are planning to increase the target range of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile to 500-kms hypersound will be attained with this increase in range

www.bisinfotech.com

According to Alexander Maksichev, the managing co-director of BrahMos Aerospace company, hypersound will be attained with this increase in range. The missile has a current speed of 2.8 mach and the speed of hypersound will be attained through modernisation, resulting in figures of more than 4.5 Mach, the official was quoted as saying by ANI. Apart from this, serial production of the supersonic cruise missile started in March, the report says.

India plans Two Hypersonic BrahMos-2K version of the cruise missile – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

India is going to be a tough competition for the U.S. in terms of equiping a hypersonic air breathing air to ground missile along with fielding scramjets on ships or subs. Onyx-M is technically the same. Also I hope your not a quick to forget kind of person based on past arguements and that is that air breathing missiles deal with lower air density better than solid fuel missiles(which of course is the reason why Zircon has lower altitude estimates than MRBM and SRBMs). The only news reports I have gotten about airbreathing missiles is same warhead weights, higher speeds, same range based on previous design and cutting off 3 meters = Brahmos-NG. Onyx-M has bumped up to 800kms with claims of mach 5 while keeping the same size of its predecessor. Brahmos-2K will supersede the previous supersonic brahmos with mach 5 to 800kms(in other words same size) because they state the only thing they are doing is just upgrading the ramjet design itself. And of course the Klevok-D2 is on the same route to surpass the solid fuel hermes with a heavier warhead speed and range while looking to maintain the same length. Solid fuels have a way more difficult time dealing with air density than air breathing missiles.

Have you looked at AARGM-ER itself? ramjet are air breathing engine, AARGM-ER doesn't have any air inlet. And like I said before, there were many plan for AARGM-ER and ramjet was one of that, but in the end they didn't use it

Mike Stuart is Orbital ATK’s director of business development for strike weapons and defense electronics, Orbital ATK is the company that make AARGM-ER
I said there isn't much know about Klevok-D2 because there are many thing you don't know. Max weight is 150 kg and warhead is 57 kg, but do you know how heavy is the seeker? how heavy is the pop out wing?. Even if we ignore these details, a ramjet engine can't start operation from stand still like a rocket motor, it must be accelerated to about Mach 2 by the booster before the ramjet engine can start working, do you know how heavy is the booster compared to the ramjet stage?. And their references is "according to sources" ??? what sources exactly?
Secondly, AARGM-ER already done the captive carry test where as there isn't even a physical mock up of Klevok-D2 yet so information about AARGM-ER is more reliable and fixed while information about Klevok-D2 can change

Your acting like Xanderscrew from f-16.net when I got him riled up enough that instead of posting one meme image he ended posting 5-7 shitpost meme images(you, me and neptune probably get the joke), except your more of the intellectual version of him, even Winged_One at Spacebattle told you to keep it at a minimum and I nearly choked on my food when I saw that. I have already stated what missile company is working on the missile, along with weight, length size along with booster and ramjet range......Also that Mike Stuart source is a little confusing based on this.

"Stuart said the company is evaluating multiple sources for the aft actuator solution and also for the new rocket motor design that, Jane's understands, is expected to deliver an engagement speed that is double that of the current AARGM. "Our assessment is that there are propulsion options out there that are high TRL and can quickly transition into a production scenario to meet the USN's timelines," he said.

While the propulsion type has yet to be decided, a ramjet solution has not been discounted. "The current Orbital ATK design concept is not a ramjet, but it certainly doesn't remove that potential. However, it will be the USN and its requirements office that make the final decision on where they want to go with propulsion," he said."

The current Orbital ATK design they could be talking about is the AGM-88E for all we know, and than deciding a paragraph later that they are undecided about propulsion makes me already discard this article, they state AARGM-ER meets the USAF's requirements, but currently AFAIK not the USN requirements just yet. This is planned for the F-35C https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...st-and-long-range-strike-missile-demonstrator

"The company's Defense, Space & Security division announced that the Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division (NAWCWD), part of Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR), had awarded it this contract, worth approximately $30 million, on Oct. 20, 2020. The work will be conducted under what is officially called the Supersonic Propulsion Enabled Advanced Ramjet (SPEAR) program. The goal is to conduct the first flight of the demonstrator in late 2022."

There are images of the Klevok-D2 in size comparison of Hermes with a simple google search, also from the website of the missile project https://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase...&backUrl=6dcabd75-d2bb-45b0-b9c5-2ad4722bcb2f

Not everyone whoever disagreed with you is a version of me can you stop the victim mind set ?
I literally have a heated discussion with Neptune not so long ago in this same thread

Sorry it is little disturbing how similar you, Neptune, Garrya and ActionJackson are. There is a reason why others call it the echo chamber, rather if that is good or bad I don't know.........Although I still see the strong resemblance of Garrya in you, like the spamming tons of images similar to another account of yours(probably why I was shit posting Garrya image threads from F-16.net to resemble your images here XD), put threads into bottomless pitts, etc.

 

[panzerfeist1]

For example:, your target is at 20k ft, you have one fighter at 30k ft and another at 60k ft then the fighter at 60k ft can attack target from longer distance
But if you have a fighter at 40kft and one target at 20kft and another at 60k ft then you can attack the target at 60k ft from longer range.
It is very hard to imagine without visual tool, so I think you can try in a simulator like DCS to find out for yourself.

Yeah seeing the Russian graph air to air missiles already proved that, but I have different altitude requirements regarding future aviation air to air missiles for later gen aircrafts.

No missile can escape physic unfortunately. If you want more speed, you need higher thrust. And higher thrust will consume fuel at a faster rate

All the air-breathing missiles I presented beg to differ though

 

[panzerfeist1]

@panzerfeist1 since you posted my reply on Russian Defense. Net I had to respond to the following from a member:


“I mean , look at it. The guy is saying that the LEVCONS are a problem but in same breath , he gives the J-20's F-16 wing sized canards a full endorsement.”

This guys need some education, firstly I never mentioned J-20 canards let alone “F-16 wing size”. Secondly this guy needs to understand the difference between something like intake ramps, and the discontinuities they create (perpendicular discontinuities at that) and something like a canard. This is basic science, something that can be easily proven with open sources, something I have done many times before.


The intake with perpendicular intake ramps, gaps from those ramps, hinges from those ramps and perpendicular ‘radar blockers’ will have a higher RCS then a smooth intake. Some people are in complete denial and ignorant; some people think physics don’t apply to their favorite aircraft.

https://qr.ae/pNwQUh Hey man I am down to earth guy on criticism and even have positive reviews and criticism for both 5th gen aircrafts from my own article, I at least learn that there are new problems mentioned of the aircraft, but rather if they are resolved or not is a separate issue I do not know.

 

[Arihant Roy]

View attachment 70465

Speculated Radar blocker of Su57 each vane has S Shape so effectively it can act as similar like S Duct . And numerous S vanes makes sure about the scattering of Radar Waves even more than Single S Duct . May be I am wrong.

This is the preproduction variant of the IGV of Item 30 which is the second phase engine.

The radar blocker with which Pakfa is flying now isn't this. The blocker is not a single article but part of a device which they call Device S.

 

[Cruise missile]

This is the preproduction variant of the IGV of Item 30 which is the second phase engine.

The radar blocker with which Pakfa is flying now isn't this. The blocker is not a single article but part of a device which they call Device S.

What was the need of doing all this when they could have simply designed the S shaped duct.

 

[panzerfeist1]

What was the need of doing all this when they could have simply designed the S shaped duct.

According to f-16.net if you have S DUCT you are the stealthiest motherfucker around, there is no other solution around it that has been repeatedly mentioned here, or over here https://qr.ae/pNwQUh

 

[no smoking]

I am not trying to score brownie points for indian users on a india defense forum, but I personally think India is 2nd place behind Russia in air-breathing missiles.

Oh, please. The Brahmos is Russian designed missile produced by India. Brahmos NG will be still based on Russian technology.

The only pure Indian hypersonic vehicle is the one tested last year, which only lasted 20 seconds, still in the very early R&D stage.

On the other hand, US' X51 already performed 200 seconds test in 2010.

So, please do some google before making us laugh.

 

[panzerfeist1]

The only pure Indian hypersonic vehicle is the one tested last year, which only lasted 20 seconds, still in the very early R&D stage.

On the other hand, US' X51 already performed 200 seconds test in 2010.

So, please do some google before making us laugh.

Is that suppose to impress me? I want you 1st to do some research on what the Kholod Project is and also why the US purchased Kh-31 missiles. Based on the cancerous responses I am getting here the irony is the soviet union selling any available information to the west is the biggest mistake they ever made. Can't image how further behind we would be without getting spoonfed.

 

[Karthi]

Oh, please. The Brahmos is Russian designed missile produced by India. Brahmos NG will be still based on Russian technology.

The only pure Indian hypersonic vehicle is the one tested last year, which only lasted 20 seconds, still in the very early R&D stage.

On the other hand, US' X51 already performed 200 seconds test in 2010.

So, please do some google before making us laugh.

Oho dear 70 percentage of the Brahmos was Indigenous , Work share was 51-49 India developed 51 percentage of tech . ( Forgot the actual values but somewhat similar what I mentioned)

 

[Karthi]

The Su-57 Felon’s radar blockers were allegedly exposed by a video part of a longer feature aired by Russian television for the centenary of the Chkalov State Flight Test Center.

As the test pilot started the engines the framing showed the flight surfaces repositioning as the hydraulic system came online and, in particular, the wing’s leading-edge extensions (which act as maneuvering flaps) as they raised themselves, leaving a clear visual of the left engine air intake.

As we already reported, the Su-57 uses a S-duct air inlet which does not cover the entire engine faces, as done for the F-22 Raptor and the F-35 Lightning II, leaving it exposed to radar signal reflection. The problem was said to be mitigated by a radar blocker that, however, was never seen on the prototypes.

Using some quick color manipulation on screenshots from Channel One’s video, some observers on Twitter claimed they were able to unveil for the first time the Su-57 radar blocker.

We have tried to edit a screenshot from the video but weren’t able to obtain the same level of details so we can’t be sure the image wasn’t doctored. Anyway, the blocker may actually be composed by more pieces and this one might be the first to be hit by the air flow entering the inlet. The aircraft appears to be the eight flyable prototype, bort number 509, which was reportedly used to test the final version of the avionics and should be also the third flyable prototype of the second-stage development.

Our own attempt at highlighting the inside of the air intake didn’t expose the same level of details as seen in some images circulated on social media. This does not mean those images were fake though.

The second-stage most noticeable difference is the new engine specifically developed for the Su-57, known as Izdeliye 30 (literally Product 30), but, since the engine is not yet ready for production and tested only on an earlier prototype, the aircraft is still using the Saturn AL-41F-1, derived from the Su-35 Flanker E’s engine. The Product 30, which should provide 18’000 kgf of thrust instead of the 15’000 kgf of the current engine, is supposed to be more efficient than previous designs and able to give the Felon a top speed in excess of Mach 2 and a supercruise capability at Mach 1.3, featuring also 3D thrust vectoring and a “stealthier” nozzle.

The Russian news agency TASS recently stated that UEC-Ufa Engine Production Association (part of the United Engine Corporation within Rostec) will begin the production of the Product 30 engine in 2022, with the first serial deliveries of the Product 30-equipped Su-57 in 2023. The engine prototypes should be in the final testing phase.

Later in the video, the seventh flyable prototype, bort number 058, was shown inflight without its canopy. This segment of the video was also posted by the Russian Ministry of Defense on YouTube and widely reported online. While a similar flight could seem strange at first, it’s possible that it was related to testing for the aircraft escape system.

The Su-57 was often criticized for the lack of some stealthy features, like exposed rounded surfaces, rough panel’s seamlines, etc. Many of these seem to be missing, or at least reduced, on the aircraft that are now being built serially, as it was visible on the second Su-57 (T-50S-2/51002) under construction this summer. The first photos were released after a visit of the Russian Defense Minister at Sukhoi’s Komsomolsk-on-Amur (KnAAZ) plant. Experts noted an improved manufacturing quality, together with some other differences like the IRST (InfraRed Search and Track) sensor covered by RAM (Radar Absorbing Materials) while in the stowed position, modified air inlets at the base of the vertical tail stabilizers and better sealed panel gaps.

Even before the first delivery, a major upgrade is being developed for the second-stage. The final configuration of the second-stage will fly for the first time in 2022 with, other than the Product 30 engines, new avionic, new guided weapons and the hydraulic actuators of the flight controls replaced by electromechanical actuators. The upgrades will reportedly reduce maintenance costs and increase the efficiency.

In the last few days, more images and videos of the serial production of the Su-57 surfaced on Twitter. The videos show Sukhoi workers are using Augmented Reality during the assembly of the Su-57 and, according to some sources, the headsets used seem to be the Microsoft Hololens (or a clone). The system is employed during a number of processes during the production, with some examples showing its usage on the fuselage and the landing gear.

It has also been reported that the Su-57 will have an export version, known as Su-57E, announced during the Army-2020 international military and technical forum in Russia this summer. No details are known however about this variant, but it’s safe to say that the Felon will have degraded performance, capabilities and avionics, similarly to the export variant of other fighter aircraft. Like happened in 2019, unverified reports begun circulating about a sale of the Su-57E to Algeria, however the Russian government stated that the Russian Aerospace Forces have the priority over the export variant, so it’s unlikely that there will be any international orders at this point.

The Aviationist

 

[panzerfeist1]

Seems quicker than expected. Испытания нового вооружения Су-57 завершат в 2021 году - первый зампред коллегии ВПК РФ - (militarynews.ru)

"Moscow. December 16. INTERFAX – Tests of the Su-57 aircraft' weapons complex, including intra-body aircraft, will be completed in 2021, Andrey Yelchaninov, the first deputy chairman of the Russian Military Industrial Commission (VIC) panel, told Interfax.
"The peculiarity of the Su-57 is that it carries not only weapons that are already used by other types of aircraft (Mig-29, Su-30SM, Su-34), but also new types of weapons that will be used from the in-body space. Their tests are planned to be completed in 2021 as part of the aviation weapons complex," Yelchaninov said.
He stressed that these are completely new weapons samples that are created from scratch, including using new guidance principles.
"It's a really big step forward. The Su-57 is a smart aircraft with smart weapons - air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles, - said the first deputy chairman of the Russian Military Defense Ministry.
According to him, the transfer of the first su-57 series to the military is expected in the planned time - until the end of December.
"There is full confidence that the aircraft in the form, which is transferred to the troops, will complete state tests in 2021, all technical problems have been solved," Yelchaninov said, adding that 10 prototypes of the Su-57 have already performed more than 4.2 thousand test flights.
He noted that work was continuing on the "second stage" engine, which provided the aircraft with cruising supersonic speed. "Hopefully, within the framework of this or the next serial contract, the planes will already be supplied with a new engine," the source said. "

 

[StealthFlanker]

Depends on the material , Absorbing coatings etc . I think even this Radar blocker can be optimised for different purposes.

Firstly, I don't think you understand what I was saying. Have you ever heard of something called the faraday cage?. A very good example of a faraday cage is the metal mesh on your Microwave oven. You can see what inside but the radiation doesn't burn your face off, if you put your phone inside, it lose signal. Because when the hole is smaller than the wavelength, the radio wave treat the grid as a surface. So specular return get reflected back as if it strike a surface instead of sliding through the hole. The easiest way to understand is to imagine throwing a basket ball at a mesh with hole smaller than the ball, your ball will bounce back.

If that logic none of the fighters are Stealthy

No, it doesn't make stealth fighter impossible in anyway, stealth fighter is already made from plat surface shaped in a way to direct specular reflection away from the source

if we use wavelength to cover the entire body of F22 then it will appear in Radar screen

F-22 is 18.9 meter long, if the wavelength as long as the F-22 then frequency is 15.8 MHz. The only type of radar with that kind of wavelength are OTH-B and OTH-SW radar, they are massive stationary array that are often kilometers long

 

[StealthFlanker]

Let me pull up some sources anyways on those missiles because I still think it is a little important, they do have air breathing missile projects coming out of the ears anways so here we go.

https://www.russiadefence.net/t2758p450-russia-us-and-other-developments-in-hypersonic-research There is a 6 meter long 3 ton scramjet UAV. Now between the scramjet engine and booster by just looking at those pictures the booster will be over 3 meters while the scramjet engine will be less than 3 meters. Since the booster is mach 3-4 the requirements of a scramjet are mach 5+.

How is that massive 3 tons paper UAV related to Klevok-D2 and K-77ME in anyway?

I am not trying to score brownie points for indian users on a india defense forum, but I personally think India is 2nd place behind Russia in air-breathing missiles.

Defense World

View News at Defense World

www.defenseworld.net

"BrahMos-NG will have same 290 km range and mach 3.5 speed but it will weigh around 1.5 tons, 5 meters in length and 50 cm in diameter, making BrahMos-NG 50 percent lighter and three meters shorter than its predecessor."
And of course the warhead weight will be the same. Also I am not trying to pull your leg here

Air to Air Brahmos missile will be ready by 2024: Latest News

“Brahmos” is India’s most advanced cruise missile, supersonic “Brahmos” cruise missiles are currently available in two versions: anti-ship version

www.defenceaviationpost.com

Boost To India’s Air Defence: BrahMos Aerospace To Develop Anti-AWACS Missile With Over 400 Km-Range For IAF

The BrahMos Aersopace, an Indo-Russian joint venture, is mulling on developing an air-to-air version of the BrahMos missile that will be able to destroy airbone warning and control systems (AWACS), reports Sputnik News

swarajyamag.com

The BrahMos Aerospace, which has developed world’s fastest cruise missile BrahMos, is a joint venture between the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) of India and the Federal State Unitary Enterprise NPO Mashinostroyenia of Russia.

According to the report, the company will soon conduct test of the anti-AWACS missile that will have a range in excess of 400-500 km.

“We are thinking to develop the air-to-air version with anti-AWACS capability. The range can be in excess of 400-500 km and the test will be sometime in the near future,” BrahMos chief executive officer (CEO) Sudhir Kumar Mishra said in an interview.

Sadly no speed estimates but an eye to keep on later.

Where does it say Brahmos-Ng has the same warhead weight as first Brahmos?

BrahMos Supersonic Cruise Missile Gets 500km Range

India and Russia are planning to increase the target range of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile to 500-kms hypersound will be attained with this increase in range

www.bisinfotech.com

According to Alexander Maksichev, the managing co-director of BrahMos Aerospace company, hypersound will be attained with this increase in range. The missile has a current speed of 2.8 mach and the speed of hypersound will be attained through modernisation, resulting in figures of more than 4.5 Mach, the official was quoted as saying by ANI. Apart from this, serial production of the supersonic cruise missile started in March, the report says.

India plans Two Hypersonic BrahMos-2K version of the cruise missile – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

the hypersonic brahmos is supposed to be the scramjet version so it uses very different engine and also cruise at higher altitude.

India is going to be a tough competition for the U.S. in terms of equiping a hypersonic air breathing air to ground missile along with fielding scramjets on ships or subs. Onyx-M is technically the same. Also I hope your not a quick to forget kind of person based on past arguements and that is that air breathing missiles deal with lower air density better than solid fuel missiles(which of course is the reason why Zircon has lower altitude estimates than MRBM and SRBMs). The only news reports I have gotten about airbreathing missiles is same warhead weights, higher speeds, same range based on previous design and cutting off 3 meters = Brahmos-NG. Onyx-M has bumped up to 800kms with claims of mach 5 while keeping the same size of its predecessor. Brahmos-2K will supersede the previous supersonic brahmos with mach 5 to 800kms(in other words same size) because they state the only thing they are doing is just upgrading the ramjet design itself. And of course the Klevok-D2 is on the same route to surpass the solid fuel hermes with a heavier warhead speed and range while looking to maintain the same length. Solid fuels have a way more difficult time dealing with air density than air breathing missiles.

Firstly, Onyx-M isn't a scramjet missile, it is a ramjet missile and it isn't hypersonic either.
Secondly, a scramjet missile such as Zircon operate very different from MRBM and SRBM, Zircon use a scramjet engine that need air but can provide constant thrust till impact, MRBM and SRBM use rocket that doesn't need air but operate for much shorter period of time, so they are boosted outside atmosphere so that they don't have to deal with air resistance
Thirdly. Brahmos-Ng doesn't have the same warhead as the first Brahmos and beside, the range of the first Brahmos is also restricted by Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR). Onyx-M doesn't have Mach 5 speed and to be frank, the extended range could come from higher throttle ratio which I explained earlier used to reduce fuel flow.
Brahmos-2K is a scramjet engine which cruise at much higher altitude than ramjet Brahmos, the aerodynamic is also different.
Finally, air breathing missile deal with thick air much better than solid rocket motor, and Klevok-D2 will have better range than Hermes but that doesn't change the fact that ramjet missile get to their extreme range by throttle back => reduce fuel consumption by reduce thrust

All the air-breathing missiles I presented beg to differ though

They don't, physics always the same

Your acting like Xanderscrew from f-16.net when I got him riled up enough that instead of posting one meme image he ended posting 5-7 shitpost meme images(you, me and neptune probably get the joke), except your more of the intellectual version of him, even Winged_One at Spacebattle told you to keep it at a minimum and I nearly choked on my food when I saw that.

I didn't post meme images, I give you data of an on going ramjet program

I have already stated what missile company is working on the missile, along with weight, length size along with booster and ramjet range.

You don't know the length or weight of the booster. You don't know the length or weight of the control section. You might know the caliber but not the full length, there is just isn't enough data for estimation. Even more hopeless to compare with something completely different like K-77ME

....Also that Mike Stuart source is a little confusing based on this.

"Stuart said the company is evaluating multiple sources for the aft actuator solution and also for the new rocket motor design that, Jane's understands, is expected to deliver an engagement speed that is double that of the current AARGM. "Our assessment is that there are propulsion options out there that are high TRL and can quickly transition into a production scenario to meet the USN's timelines," he said.

While the propulsion type has yet to be decided, a ramjet solution has not been discounted. "The current Orbital ATK design concept is not a ramjet, but it certainly doesn't remove that potential. However, it will be the USN and its requirements office that make the final decision on where they want to go with propulsion," he said."
The current Orbital ATK design they could be talking about is the AGM-88E for all we know, and than deciding a paragraph later that they are undecided about propulsion makes me already discard this article, they state AARGM-ER meets the USAF's requirements, but currently AFAIK not the USN requirements just yet. This is planned for the F-35C https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...st-and-long-range-strike-missile-demonstrator

"The company's Defense, Space & Security division announced that the Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division (NAWCWD), part of Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR), had awarded it this contract, worth approximately $30 million, on Oct. 20, 2020. The work will be conducted under what is officially called the Supersonic Propulsion Enabled Advanced Ramjet (SPEAR) program. The goal is to conduct the first flight of the demonstrator in late 2022."

It isn't confusing if you follow the project from the start. Ramjet was considered at first but then discarded. AGM-88E is AARGM and AGM-88G is AARGM-ER
SPEAR is a different ramjet program

There are images of the Klevok-D2 in size comparison of Hermes with a simple google search, also from the website of the missile project https://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase...&backUrl=6dcabd75-d2bb-45b0-b9c5-2ad4722bcb2f

https://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase...&backUrl=6dcabd75-d2bb-45b0-b9c5-2ad4722bcb2f
Where is the size comparison?

Sorry it is little disturbing how similar you, Neptune, Garrya and ActionJackson are. There is a reason why others call it the echo chamber, rather if that is good or bad I don't know.........Although I still see the strong resemblance of Garrya in you, like the spamming tons of images similar to another account of yours(probably why I was shit posting Garrya image threads from F-16.net to resemble your images here XD), put threads into bottomless pitts, etc.

in case of garry, I can see why because I copy his blog photo and sometime paragraph to argue as I'm too lazy to spend hours looking up pictures. This is just like people used to cite picture from APA and Picard. But in case of others, there is no similarity. It just your victim mind set

 

[panzerfeist1]

How is that massive 3 tons paper UAV related to Klevok-D2 and K-77ME in anyway?

Because it contradicts what you are saying about ramjet designs where you need to sacrifice speed for range and vice-versa perhaps? Like how some sizes remained the same with a bump up in speed and range? Klevok-D2 is a ramjet design that just happens to surpass its predecessor design like the one I have mentioned.

Where does it say Brahmos-Ng has the same warhead weight as first Brahmos?

Sources like this say that? https://www.india.com/news/india/br...uccessful-test-firing-from-su-30-mki-2682176/

"The version which will be fitted on Tejas will be called BrahMos NG (BrahMos Lite) and it will be much lighter although the payload will be the same."

the hypersonic brahmos is supposed to be the scramjet version so it uses very different engine and also cruise at higher altitude.

Yup, but there are ramjets that hit mach 5 as well.

Firstly, Onyx-M isn't a scramjet missile, it is a ramjet missile and it isn't hypersonic either.

Whatever makes you feel better I guess. https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6478037

"The existing Russian supersonic cruise missiles will be improved by increasing their range and bringing the speed to hypersonic. This was announced in an interview with TASS by the general director, the general designer of NPO Mashinostroyenia (part of the Tactical Missile Arms Corporation) Alexander Leonov."

Эксперт: бросковые испытания ракеты "Оникс-М" с дальностью 800 км уже проведены

По словам главного редактора журнала "Арсенал Отечества" Виктора Мураховского, дальность увеличена за счет нового состава топлива, а также более легкой и компактной бортовой радиоэлектроники ракеты

tass.ru

"Expert: onyx-M missile tests with a range of 800 km have already been carried out. According to the chief editor of Arsenal of the Fatherland magazine Viktor Murakhovsky, the range has been increased due to the new fuel composition, as well as a lighter and more compact onboard radio electronics."

Secondly, a scramjet missile such as Zircon operate very different from MRBM and SRBM, Zircon use a scramjet engine that need air but can provide constant thrust till impact, MRBM and SRBM use rocket that doesn't need air but operate for much shorter period of time, so they are boosted outside atmosphere so that they don't have to deal with air resistance

Like I said it deals with air density better.

Thirdly. Brahmos-Ng doesn't have the same warhead as the first Brahmos and beside, the range of the first Brahmos is also restricted by Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR). Onyx-M doesn't have Mach 5 speed and to be frank, the extended range could come from higher throttle ratio which I explained earlier used to reduce fuel flow.
Brahmos-2K is a scramjet engine which cruise at much higher altitude than ramjet Brahmos, the aerodynamic is also different.
Finally, air breathing missile deal with thick air much better than solid rocket motor, and Klevok-D2 will have better range than Hermes but that doesn't change the fact that ramjet missile get to their extreme range by throttle back => reduce fuel consumption by reduce thrust

Pretty much you are re-iterating the same responses of onyx and brahmos are not this or that when I have already responded to those responses with more sources. Brahmos-2k comes with a 1st and 2nd phase developments, that's a yes. But I am having a hard fucking time copy and pasting the old source which states same ramjet but increasing to mach 5 speeds with more range. https://idrw.org/india-plans-two-hypersonic-brahmos-2k-version-of-the-cruise-missile/ see the 2nd sentence in the 2nd paragraph, than see the last paragraph and last sentence. Than at that point your probably realize that the brahmos version they are getting upgraded has a uncanny resemblance to the two Tass sources I have posted earlier here regarding the Onyx-M speed and range(Holy shit what a coincidence). Believe what you want about the Klevok-D2 but that does not change what the missile corporation statements about that missiles improvement over the Hermes.

They don't, physics always the same

Technology does not stay the same.

I didn't post meme images, I give you data of an on going ramjet program

No I have stated I can get multiple screenshots of you somehow derailing threads as a meme, and having to make separate threads based on those discussions your in(I like to browse other forums for information). I say your better than one F-16.net user because your images are not shitposts.

You don't know the length or weight of the booster. You don't know the length or weight of the control section. You might know the caliber but not the full length, there is just isn't enough data for estimation. Even more hopeless to compare with something completely different like K-77ME

And of course your statements I can say the same exact shit about the AARGM-ER, but they seem to have given quite a good amount of details of the klevok-d2. Besides the new engines and avionics for testing in 2022-2024 the good news which I posted recently here is that at the end of 2021 new made from scratch weapons will be ready meaning we to see if there is new air breathing missiles for the aircraft,etc. I am not stopping you from discarding what the missile corporation has said of the missile I will respectively follow what they have said like you have respectively followed what Stuart has said if the results of that missile are accurate in the end. Have some faith in me because there were missile design claims for a mig-41 that said several hundred kilometers missile carrying several air to air munitions similiar to the k-77m and I did not take that kind of data as off the bat but the Klevok-D2 was a exception for me because they did state a missile corporation name designing it.

It isn't confusing if you follow the project from the start. Ramjet was considered at first but then discarded. AGM-88E is AARGM and AGM-88G is AARGM-ER
SPEAR is a different ramjet program

SPEAR was only mentioned because it was the USN requirement and that the current AARGM-ER despite what Stuart has said wont do since the USN was looking for a ramjet design of the agm-158. Either way with SPEAR being planned for a wider internal weapons bay like the F-35C and that orbital OTK designed a internal weapons bay weapon getting close to hypersonic speeds but they still need a ramjet besides the claimed specs made.

https://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase...&backUrl=6dcabd75-d2bb-45b0-b9c5-2ad4722bcb2f
Where is the size comparison?

https://en.topwar.ru/176806-kakim-budet-giperzvukovoj-raketnyj-kompleks-klevok-d2.html Here the other source was the missile corporate designing said missile design. As stated earlier, same length with same max diameter 207-210mm tube used.

in case of garry, I can see why because I copy his blog photo and sometime paragraph to argue as I'm too lazy to spend hours looking up pictures. This is just like people used to cite picture from APA and Picard. But in case of others, there is no similarity. It just your victim mind set

OK.

 

[no smoking]

Is that suppose to impress me? I want you 1st to do some research on what the Kholod Project is and also why the US purchased Kh-31 missiles.

No, just to give you the facts which you don't know or pretend to be not knowing.
Russia has been always leading the world in the anti-ship supersonic missile, but it doesn't mean India is also leading US in this area.