Sukhoi PAK FA

SKC

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it got Engine covered long ago
View attachment 60011
Is it only this prototype or model or being adopted for all future production models.
I still see so many pics with open engine area. Also the finish toward the Nozzles to be too much like previous generations. They should update it like on F-22.
 

bhramos

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Is it only this prototype or model or being adopted for all future production models.
I still see so many pics with open engine area. Also the finish toward the Nozzles to be too much like previous generations. They should update it like on F-22.
it will be adopted to all future orders, current orders are Algeria - 12, Russia 76 + 2, Belarus - 46 on loan..
2 out of 11 prototypes have covers, this year 2020 Russia will show production model as they will go into service ordered in 2017....
 

Neptune

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Is it only this prototype or model or being adopted for all future production models.
I still see so many pics with open engine area. Also the finish toward the Nozzles to be too much like previous generations. They should update it like on F-22.

The exposed metal engine covers have been taken care of long ago. Here is what the production model will look like, included are sawtooth nozzles.

00E1023A-AD23-4F09-A707-1CC0AA30DACE.jpeg
 

asianobserve

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Did you know the Su-57 Felon has the same RCS of a clean F/A-18 Super Hornet (and 1,000 times bigger than that of the F-35)?

‘The F-35 will be enjoying almost 6 times greater detection range against Su-57. The difference is so huge that Su-57 will be hopelessly outclassed. We see this time and again in Red Flags and Northern Edge with F-35 having 28–1 kill ratio against modern 4th gen. aircraft backed by AWACS and SAMs. The enormous difference in detection range from Stealth is the primary factor for such a lopsided kill ratio.

‘It doesn’t matter how capable radar or EW suite you have, they simply can’t compensate the enormous difference in detection range from a VLO airframe. You can have amazing performance at airshows but without Stealth you’re not gonna be in a fight against 5th gen. aircraft.

‘And this is ignoring the infancy of Su-57 program and consistent delay in the production/IOC since last 4 years or the fact Su-57’s avionics suite is not remotely comparable to that of F-35. The F-35 has a bigger and much more capable radar and orders of magnitude more powerful EW suite giving vastly superior Situational Awareness.

‘Where F-35’s DAS make it the only Fighter to fully operate in the IR spectrum, Su-57 can’t even use its forward-hemisphere IRST without further ruining its RCS. The IRST is turned backwards in Su-57 because it’s a sphere, the worst shape in terms of RCS that uniformly reflects in all direction.

‘Yet the Su-57 is portrayed as an equal counterpart to F-22 and F-35 with people talking about its kinematic performance or side-arrays without even understanding their actual purpose, let alone the impact on EMCON. How great are the Directed IRCMs (Laser turrets) while turning a blind eye to the fact Su-57 use a UV based Missile Warning System – making Su-57 significantly vulnerable to BVR missiles. 10 years since first flight and there’s no indication of K-77M or K-74M anywhere close to being operational, forcing Su-57 to fly with R-77 & R-74 externally (as they won’t fit inside).’

‘Imagine the kind of articles you’d see if F-35 didn’t have an operational missile that could fit internally. The Su-57 gets away with all the shortcomings using propaganda and fantasies, the likes of non-existent L band radar.


 

Neptune

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Did you know the Su-57 Felon has the same RCS of a clean F/A-18 Super Hornet (and 1,000 times bigger than that of the F-35)?

‘The F-35 will be enjoying almost 6 times greater detection range against Su-57. The difference is so huge that Su-57 will be hopelessly outclassed. We see this time and again in Red Flags and Northern Edge with F-35 having 28–1 kill ratio against modern 4th gen. aircraft backed by AWACS and SAMs. The enormous difference in detection range from Stealth is the primary factor for such a lopsided kill ratio.

‘It doesn’t matter how capable radar or EW suite you have, they simply can’t compensate the enormous difference in detection range from a VLO airframe. You can have amazing performance at airshows but without Stealth you’re not gonna be in a fight against 5th gen. aircraft.

‘And this is ignoring the infancy of Su-57 program and consistent delay in the production/IOC since last 4 years or the fact Su-57’s avionics suite is not remotely comparable to that of F-35. The F-35 has a bigger and much more capable radar and orders of magnitude more powerful EW suite giving vastly superior Situational Awareness.

‘Where F-35’s DAS make it the only Fighter to fully operate in the IR spectrum, Su-57 can’t even use its forward-hemisphere IRST without further ruining its RCS. The IRST is turned backwards in Su-57 because it’s a sphere, the worst shape in terms of RCS that uniformly reflects in all direction.

‘Yet the Su-57 is portrayed as an equal counterpart to F-22 and F-35 with people talking about its kinematic performance or side-arrays without even understanding their actual purpose, let alone the impact on EMCON. How great are the Directed IRCMs (Laser turrets) while turning a blind eye to the fact Su-57 use a UV based Missile Warning System – making Su-57 significantly vulnerable to BVR missiles. 10 years since first flight and there’s no indication of K-77M or K-74M anywhere close to being operational, forcing Su-57 to fly with R-77 & R-74 externally (as they won’t fit inside).’

‘Imagine the kind of articles you’d see if F-35 didn’t have an operational missile that could fit internally. The Su-57 gets away with all the shortcomings using propaganda and fantasies, the likes of non-existent L band radar.



He SU-57 has canted and mostly serrated surfaces to redirect radar energy. It’s smoother and more streamlined with less discontinuities. The F-18, with the exception of the v-tails, and intakes has no other canted surfaces, there are no trapezoid style shaping in the wings or bays and its full of discontent. It is impossible for an F-18 to ever match the RCS of the SU-57. Physics don’t make exceptions just because something is America. 90 degree corners are the ultimate ‘no no’ in stealth and the F-18 is full of them. The author of that article is plainly stupid and that is being kind.
 

asianobserve

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He SU-57 has canted and mostly serrated surfaces to redirect radar energy. It’s smoother and more streamlined with less discontinuities. The F-18, with the exception of the v-tails, and intakes has no other canted surfaces, there are no trapezoid style shaping in the wings or bays and its full of discontent. It is impossible for an F-18 to ever match the RCS of the SU-57. Physics don’t make exceptions just because something is America. 90 degree corners are the ultimate ‘no no’ in stealth and the F-18 is full of them. The author of that article is plainly stupid and that is being kind.
20200924_223407.jpg

images (14).jpeg

images (11).jpeg


They look pretty much the same. The Su-57's spherical FLIR is the worst signature compromise. The SH has no such error.
 

Steven Rogers

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View attachment 60245
View attachment 60243
View attachment 60244

They look pretty much the same. The Su-57's spherical FLIR is the worst signature compromise. The SH has no such error.
Round structure sitting on the front is a compromise for the frontal stealth but f18 isn't the best bet to compare,just look at your own pictures of the f18s,conical radome(huge reflector of the microwaves),framed canopy and the stabilizers (which are not even aligned with the main wing body) ,are just highlighted things,their are many minor and major reflectors on the f18 itself....
images (14) (1).jpeg
 

Neptune

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View attachment 60245
View attachment 60243
View attachment 60244

They look pretty much the same. The Su-57's spherical FLIR is the worst signature compromise. The SH has no such error.

They look the same because you are ignorant or trolling or both. I have spoke about RCS extensively (including the Su-57 rcs) but I’m going to keep it short and sweet because you are here to troll and you waste everyone’s time. The biggest violator of RCS rules are 90 degree corners. The IRST is very minor compared to an entire 90 degree fuselage.

It’s embarrassing that I even have to point out the obvious. How is anything remotely similar? If the F-18 is similar to the SU-57 then it must be similar to an F-22....

F69675C2-D46F-4B66-9122-7229D8CC02B9.jpeg


Notice the angular leading and trailing edges. The F-18 has nothing similar thus it will have major RCS despite what ignorant keyboard worriers might say.


121E6B23-1690-4F30-9D5D-8C73C86ACFC0.jpeg



Just for reference here is an example of a B-2 illustration showing edge diffraction.

773E347B-9398-4D57-A84C-DDCBA4486A22.jpeg




Congratulations, the F-18 violates every principle in the bellow illustration.

68C97681-879C-4D6C-B801-8552041EDE62.jpeg



The F-18 has magically somehow overcome physics to somehow equal the RCS of an aircraft that has canted angles, smooth streamlined fuselage and thoughtful design decisions.
 

Bhurki

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Not sure why people are so concerned about little details on Su57, when clearly the largest problem is its availability.

It won't be fielded in numbers adequate to maintain constant presence over any given mission sets.

Not to forget it doesn't even have the engines that were intended for it, and the thermal signatures of rather unstealthy Al41-F will weigh it down quite a bit.
 

no smoking

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Not sure why people are so concerned about little details on Su57, when clearly the largest problem is its availability.

It won't be fielded in numbers adequate to maintain constant presence over any given mission sets.

Not to forget it doesn't even have the engines that were intended for it, and the thermal signatures of rather unstealthy Al41-F will weigh it down quite a bit.
It is not an issue for Russia. In the next 20-30 years, Russia is more likely in a strategic defensive position, her air force is going to fight within her own homeland or close neighborhood. How to hunt the incoming stealth fighter jet/boomer under support of her own massive air defense network is her major mission. So she doesn't need that many Su-57.

On the other hand, US and her allies will have to come to Russia and China's territory to fight. So they need a big stealth jet fleet.
 

Swiftfarts

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It is not an issue for Russia. In the next 20-30 years, Russia is more likely in a strategic defensive position, her air force is going to fight within her own homeland or close neighborhood. How to hunt the incoming stealth fighter jet/boomer under support of her own massive air defense network is her major mission. So she doesn't need that many Su-57.

On the other hand, US and her allies will have to come to Russia and China's territory to fight. So they need a big stealth jet fleet.
Excellent point. Russia strategic depth is next only to US in whole world. US and it's Allie's would have to deal with layers and layers of powerful ground based radars + passive systems. There is no way a stealth plane penetrating deep into both of these countries.
 

Trololo

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Excellent point. Russia strategic depth is next only to US in whole world. US and it's Allie's would have to deal with layers and layers of powerful ground based radars + passive systems. There is no way a stealth plane penetrating deep into both of these countries.
Correct. Russian air doctrine is primarily defensive with the aim of severely degrading an invader's air force within Russian homeland. To that effect their main forte is in SAMs and similar sky denial assets. Their air force focuses largely on cheap aircraft produced in large numbers which go up and shoot down intruding aircraft primarily in WVR combat. A key observation here is that Russian aircrafts are not meant to be very serviceable, have long airframe and engine lives, etc. They are like use 10 times and then throw (metaphorically speaking). Once the plane has been used up, a new cheap bird is made ready. No wonder IAF spends so much money and muscle for the upkeep of Russian birds in their inventory.
 

panzerfeist1

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‘The F-35 will be enjoying almost 6 times greater detection range against Su-57. The difference is so huge that Su-57 will be hopelessly outclassed. We see this time and again in Red Flags and Northern Edge with F-35 having 28–1 kill ratio against modern 4th gen. aircraft backed by AWACS and SAMs. The enormous difference in detection range from Stealth is the primary factor for such a lopsided kill ratio.
I hope you do not take notes from most, but not all retards at F-16.net that make RCS guestimates based on what their whims tell them(or what some users have done here *cough*). Your taking red flag exercises that one aircraft will be more superior than the other when you do not even mention what exact 4th generation aircraft blocks(low or high end 4th generation aircrafts) were used in that exercise. I am sure it is easy for Russians to pull that Su-57s based on their own exercises have a 28-0 kill ratio against their 4th gens or other 4th gens in testing from countries that might be considered their allies and customers to give such positive results.

1500 F35 is for what can be brought to bear against Russia.(NATO only)
More than likely that number is needed against 3rd world countries to give "democracy" to. Bear against Russia I doubt since they are not like Serbs where they will allow over 37,000 combat sorties they will just use satellites, OTH radars and just target air bases with conventional hypersonic missiles. Even the S-400 we know I have counted that the system has 5 different radar sets.

‘And this is ignoring the infancy of Su-57 program and consistent delay in the production/IOC since last 4 years or the fact Su-57’s avionics suite is not remotely comparable to that of F-35. The F-35 has a bigger and much more capable radar and orders of magnitude more powerful EW suite giving vastly superior Situational Awareness.
Cant jump into the unknown and declare yourself a winner since their have been many avionic changes, along with some high end EW and radar systems given a chance to outperform F-35s and this is not regarding the 2nd version Su-57 in development from 2022-2024.

‘Yet the Su-57 is portrayed as an equal counterpart to F-22 and F-35 with people talking about its kinematic performance or side-arrays without even understanding their actual purpose, let alone the impact on EMCON. How great are the Directed IRCMs (Laser turrets) while turning a blind eye to the fact Su-57 use a UV based Missile Warning System – making Su-57 significantly vulnerable to BVR missiles.
For someone that absolutely does not pay any attention at all to what the Su-57 has gone through, you are forgetting that the aircraft also has 360 degree radar coverage and usually I take it that radar guided missiles always beat infrared guided missiles in tracking performance towards targets. UV based warning systems have perks that infrared warning systems don't have and vice versa.

The Su-57's spherical FLIR is the worst signature compromise.
More guestimates, we have already discussed this on what the RCS of that small sphere would be, and the likelyhood of it being more lower with RAS RAM combo to change the IRST when not in use. Radars are a preference over infrared systems and you should go check on line the capabilities of QWIP IRST systems

Not to forget it doesn't even have the engines that were intended for it, and the thermal signatures of rather unstealthy Al41-F will weigh it down quite a bit.

"It features Thrust Vectoring Control (TVC), advanced materials, optimized radar cross section and infrared (IR) signatures for stealth as well as Fully Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC). The Russian Air Force plans call for the PAK FA to be powered by the AL-41F1 engine until 2020 when an entirely new generation engine should be available boosting the aircraft's range, ceiling and overall performance. "

unstealthy compared to what? Just because they have found or created something better does not mean that the previous design is horrible. Like wanting ROFAR over AESA on your aircraft, an F-22 wanting a 4th gen over 3rd gen radar.
 

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