Sukhoi PAK FA

[sachin458377]

NEW DELHI: After several months of hectic negotiations on technical details, India and Russia are ready with a detailed work-share agreement for joint production of a fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA). Russia will now share critical new generation aircraft technologies as part of a deal that would include production of over 100 fighters in India.
The two nations are also expected to incorporate a new company by October for the production of Kamov Ka 226 light choppers, which would involve significant private sector participation.
Both projects have been accelerated ahead of Indo-Russian summit talks in Goa next month that will be attended by President Vladimir Putin.

Officials who have been briefed on ongoing talks told ET that the FGFA program in particular will yield rich dividends to India due to the quantum of technology on offer.
India and Russia agree on details of new joint production of fifth generation fighter aircraft
"From a preliminary documents that was barely two dozen pages, we have agreed on a 650 page detailed plan that specifies exactly what all will be shared," the official said.
Unlike in the past when a broad agreement would be signed on fighter deals like the Su 30 MKI contract, this time around Indian negotiators have gone deep into details of the joint production plan.
The project got a boost last year from Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar after being on the brink of collapse.
The signing of the work share agreement is expected shortly, with India committing to invest $4 billion over the coming years to develop a tailor-made version of the fighter. One of the major concerns of the Indian side was the development of a new jet engine for the fighter and its weapons package.
India has already spent $300 million in a preliminary design contract for the project with Russia that was completed in June 2013.
In the initial stage, HAL and Russian Helicopters will sign up for the joint company but the Indian side is clear that a private sector partner will be brought in at a later stage to assist the project.
Pune-based Kalyani Strategic Systems is tipped as a front runner for this partnership to manufacture helicopter engines for the KA 226.
On the chopper contract, officials said that work is being accelerated to ensure that a new joint company is incorporated by the time the summit level talks begin.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ion-fighter-aircraft/articleshow/54203573.cms

 

[sachin458377]

With FGFA , Suhkoi30MKI, Rafale ........is the space left for F16 or F18?

 

[Scarface]

With FGFA , Suhkoi30MKI, Rafale ........is the space left for F16 or F18?

Yes,there is,
Our defence minister has been quoted by several sources saying that India(MoD) is going to announce purchase of Eurofighter Typhoon/F-16/F-18/Gripen (any one of these) by the end of this fiscal year

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/repor...e-in-india-intiative-manohar-parrikar-2214779

Personally I'm not happy with the choices of Aircraft but they'll have to do

 

[sachin458377]

but with so many types it will be difficult to maintain inventory??

 

[smestarz]

We shall be the Zoo of the World fighter planes.
Total chaso and confusion with spares, inventory and maintenance.
The cost of spare management will go up expnentially unless we ask the manufacturers to ensure maintenance throughout

but with so many types it will be difficult to maintain inventory??

 

[Scarface]

but with so many types it will be difficult to maintain inventory??

I'm sure it's not as big a hassle as it's being made out to be,the MoD and IAF must have considered this issue and if it was a dealbreaker then they wouldn't have gone through with it

 

[smestarz]

Try not to assume that IAF top brass has this kind of vision
We are talking of an air force brass who were supposed to be topmost professionals and for the low availability of Su-30 MKI they did not see themselves as part of the problem and concluded that French planes are better and incidentally the entire Mirage 2000 fleet was grounded due to lack of spares. So which is better a plane with 0 Availability or a plane likle Su-30 MKI which had 45% availability?
I am not saying that 45% availability is good, but then the IAF top brass blame it all on Russian planes, where as all this time they are source of the problem. After appointment of Parrikar as DM, a civilian identifies the problem and remedies it to ensure that the availability rate is higher than 60%. This shows how incompetent IAF top brass is. It is no doiubt that they were good fighter pilots, but then they are clueless about other aspects specially spares management. A world Class football player cannot necessary be a world class coach .. eg Maradona.

IAF is the one having a totally confused air force with severe lack of vision. We are upgrading Jaguar which even after upgrade will be good only against Pakistan. Not China, thus China is sure that Jaguar would not be used in Eastern sector, and that would hold true for Mirage 2000. How many planes in present IAF stable can be used both against Pakistan and China, that would mean only MiG-29 and Su-30 MKI only.
Even Rafale is supposed to used only against Pakistan !!!

I think before signing any new plane, it is best to start some sort of education for IAF brass about spare ordering and spare management, else it would be a reality that we would be starting a war with Pakistan and entire fleet would be grounded due to lack of spares.

I'm sure it's not as big a hassle as it's being made out to be,the MoD and IAF must have considered this issue and if it was a dealbreaker then they wouldn't have gone through with it

 

[mayfair]

Much of our current inventory- Mig 21, Mig 27, Mig 29, Mirage 2000, Jaguar will be phased out in the next 10-15 years or will be extremely long in the tooth to be relied upon as frontline fighters..

We'll be left with Su-30 MKI (~270) + Rafale (if the deal is signed 36) + LCA (120+) + AMCA (If it works out) and FGFA.

That's 4-5 types of combat aircraft.

That's comparable with most other airforces in the world.

 

[Screambowl]

pata nahi BC kya karte rehte hai ..

This came after Pakis announced negotiation with Russia on Su35 so may be we are also giving disinfo.

 

[Scarface]

Try not to assume that IAF top brass has this kind of vision
We are talking of an air force brass who were supposed to be topmost professionals and for the low availability of Su-30 MKI they did not see themselves as part of the problem and concluded that French planes are better and incidentally the entire Mirage 2000 fleet was grounded due to lack of spares. So which is better a plane with 0 Availability or a plane likle Su-30 MKI which had 45% availability?
I am not saying that 45% availability is good, but then the IAF top brass blame it all on Russian planes, where as all this time they are source of the problem. After appointment of Parrikar as DM, a civilian identifies the problem and remedies it to ensure that the availability rate is higher than 60%. This shows how incompetent IAF top brass is. It is no doiubt that they were good fighter pilots, but then they are clueless about other aspects specially spares management. A world Class football player cannot necessary be a world class coach .. eg Maradona.

IAF is the one having a totally confused air force with severe lack of vision. We are upgrading Jaguar which even after upgrade will be good only against Pakistan. Not China, thus China is sure that Jaguar would not be used in Eastern sector, and that would hold true for Mirage 2000. How many planes in present IAF stable can be used both against Pakistan and China, that would mean only MiG-29 and Su-30 MKI only.
Even Rafale is supposed to used only against Pakistan !!!

I think before signing any new plane, it is best to start some sort of education for IAF brass about spare ordering and spare management, else it would be a reality that we would be starting a war with Pakistan and entire fleet would be grounded due to lack of spares.

I'm not going to discredit any IAF brass be it top or bottom or the MoD because people take offense when they criticize their favorite Russian aircraft and be that as it may MoD has more administrative power in this issue than the IAF,and the current Defence minister by your own admission has done a fine job so far,so I'm sure inventory has been taken into account.

 

[mayfair]

We are upgrading Jaguar which even after upgrade will be good only against Pakistan. Not China, thus China is sure that Jaguar would not be used in Eastern sector, and that would hold true for Mirage 2000. How many planes in present IAF stable can be used both against Pakistan and China, that would mean only MiG-29 and Su-30 MKI only.

How do you come to that conclusion?

Even Rafale is supposed to used only against Pakistan !!!

AFAIK, one Squadron of Rafale will be based in Ambala and the other in the Eastern Sector.

 

[Adioz]

Try not to assume that IAF top brass has this kind of vision
We are talking of an air force brass who were supposed to be topmost professionals and for the low availability of Su-30 MKI they did not see themselves as part of the problem and concluded that French planes are better and incidentally the entire Mirage 2000 fleet was grounded due to lack of spares. So which is better a plane with 0 Availability or a plane likle Su-30 MKI which had 45% availability?
I am not saying that 45% availability is good, but then the IAF top brass blame it all on Russian planes, where as all this time they are source of the problem. After appointment of Parrikar as DM, a civilian identifies the problem and remedies it to ensure that the availability rate is higher than 60%. This shows how incompetent IAF top brass is. It is no doiubt that they were good fighter pilots, but then they are clueless about other aspects specially spares management. A world Class football player cannot necessary be a world class coach .. eg Maradona.

IAF is the one having a totally confused air force with severe lack of vision. We are upgrading Jaguar which even after upgrade will be good only against Pakistan. Not China, thus China is sure that Jaguar would not be used in Eastern sector, and that would hold true for Mirage 2000. How many planes in present IAF stable can be used both against Pakistan and China, that would mean only MiG-29 and Su-30 MKI only.
Even Rafale is supposed to used only against Pakistan !!!

I think before signing any new plane, it is best to start some sort of education for IAF brass about spare ordering and spare management, else it would be a reality that we would be starting a war with Pakistan and entire fleet would be grounded due to lack of spares.

IAF top brass sometimes indeed does behave like a spoilt brat. They are always against setting up of joint theater commands and also against a 5-star rank "Chief of defence staff ". They believe that any joint-ness will relegate the air force into a force meant for support of ground forces and tie-down their resources thereby denying them chances at air-interdiction missions. Doctrines of Army and Air force are not aligned and a lack of coordination is dangerous. Hopefully Parrikar will be able to push through his agenda of joint theater commands.

Much of our current inventory- Mig 21, Mig 27, Mig 29, Mirage 2000, Jaguar will be phased out in the next 10-15 years or will be extremely long in the tooth to be relied upon as frontline fighters..

We'll be left with Su-30 MKI (~270) + Rafale (if the deal is signed 36) + LCA (120+) + AMCA (If it works out) and FGFA.

That's 4-5 types of combat aircraft.

That's comparable with most other airforces in the world.

Well, actually, all other air-forces maintain a lower number of twin-engine fighters and more single-engine fighters. After Mirage retires, somewhere in 2027, IAF will have almost all twin-engine fighters. Only LCA will be single engine. Hi-lo matrix is lopsided in the Indian case.

 

[Adioz]

With FGFA , Suhkoi30MKI, Rafale ........is the space left for F16 or F18?

Plenty of space, even after F-18.

 

[smestarz]

Seen how useful Jaguar was during Kargil war?

I think both will be based on central India far away from Action, only Ambala might be true

How do you come to that conclusion?



AFAIK, one Squadron of Rafale will be based in Ambala and the other in the Eastern Sector.

 

[rohit b3]

Much of our current inventory- Mig 21, Mig 27, Mig 29, Mirage 2000, Jaguar will be phased out in the next 10-15 years or will be extremely long in the tooth to be relied upon as frontline fighters..

We'll be left with Su-30 MKI (~270) + Rafale (if the deal is signed 36) + LCA (120+) + AMCA (If it works out) and FGFA.

That's 4-5 types of combat aircraft.

That's comparable with most other airforces in the world.

Correction. 250 + Tejas . 40 mk1 + 80 mk1A and the rest mk2 from 2025 onwards.

 

[rohit b3]

View attachment 10171

Plenty of space, even after F-18.

Cant see it clearly, but why are FGFA/Tejas/Su-30mki squadrons seem to be falling? lol

 

[Sourav Kumar]

Finally good news I guess..

Please enter with 30 chars

 

[bhramos]

How is the thrust vectoring system on the Sukhoi PAK-FA different from the F-22?

The key technical difference between the two is that the PAK-FA uses a Multi-Axis Thrust Vectoring (MATV) system with independent control on vectoring for both nozzles. This means that the thrust from each engine can be directed anywhere within a cone formed around each nozzle. This is integrated into the flight controls and can be directly used by the pilot in flight. It also has independent control of each convergent-divergent nozzle.
The F-22's system isn't (and probably doesn't require) MATV, it is a single axis thrust vectoring system. The nozzles can deflect up and down only, in a plane formed by each nozzle, and therefore can pivot about one axis (perpendicular to this plane). The FADEC engine control system here has control over each engine independently as a coherent, cohesive thrust vectored system, just like in the PAK-FA.
Operationally, the PAK-FA has the more useful and sublime system of the two, and would benefit from significant aerodynamic capabilities compared to the F-22. That said, the F-22 is a very capable and very stealthy airplane, more so than the PAK-FA, so it may have less need for super-maneuverability.

source FB page.

 

[cannonfodder]

After repeated delays, India and Russia have agreed to a detailed work-sharing agreement for the joint production of design and production of a new fighter jet under the so-called joint Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) project, known in India as the Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF), according to Indian media reports.

“From a preliminary document that was barely two dozen pages, we have agreed on a 650 page detailed plan that specifies exactly what all will be shared,” an unidentified Indian defense official told The Economic Times. A final contract is expected to be signed in early 2017.

The talks between Indian and Russian defense officials were allegedly accelerated ahead of an Indian-Russian summit to be held in Goa on October 15. As I reported in January, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi failed to reach an agreement during a bilateral meeting in Moscow in December 2015.

The FGFA/PMF project has been hampered by repeated delays since the start of the project in 2007 and the signing of a preliminary $295 million design contract in 2010. In 2015, Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar decided to make one last push toward reaching an agreement with Russia. I explained:

"Delays were caused by New Delhi and Moscow disagreeing over many fundamental aspects of the joint development project including work and cost share, aircraft technology, as well as the number of aircraft to be ordered."

After evaluating the first PAK FA T-50 prototype (the Russian prototype of the PMF), the Indian Air Force (IAF) wanted more than 40 changes addressing, among other things, perceived weaknesses in the plane’s engine, stealth, and weapon-carrying capabilities. Russia announced in late 2015 that it would only induct a squadron (18-24 aircraft) of PAK FA fighter aircraft, and procure additional Sukhoi Su-35 aircraft instead. The original deal involved Russia procuring 250 and India 144 aircraft at a cost of around $30 billion by 2022. As a result, India threatened to abandon the project in its entirety. Russia in turn made a number of concessions including an offer to cut down its financial contribution from $6 to $ 3.7 billion for three PAK FA T-50 prototypes and substantial technology transfers.

"Despite the agreeing on a work-share plan, problems with the FGFA/PMF project nevertheless will remain Russia’s defense industry is still facing technical (as well as financial) hurdles including designing a new engine for the aircraft, given that PAK FA prototypes are currently using engines also installed on Sukhoi Su-35S 4++ generation multi-role fighter jets, calling into question whether the PAK FA can genuinely be classified as an 5th generation aircraft"

As part of the effort to salvage the defense deal, Moscow has also agreed to let Indian test pilots fly the PAK FA T-50 prototype currently undergoing flight trials in Russia. Hundreds of flight tests have taken place over the last months and the Russian Air Force expects the first aircraft to be inducted into its ranks in 2017. Nevertheless, many senior officers in the IAF remain skeptical about the aircraft’s affordability and capabilities.

idrw.org . Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website , Kindly don't paste our work in other websites http://idrw.org/india-russia-reach-agreement-5th-generation-fighter-aircraft/ .

 

[gadeshi]

After repeated delays, India and Russia have agreed to a detailed work-sharing agreement for the joint production of design and production of a new fighter jet under the so-called joint Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) project, known in India as the Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF), according to Indian media reports.

“From a preliminary document that was barely two dozen pages, we have agreed on a 650 page detailed plan that specifies exactly what all will be shared,” an unidentified Indian defense official told The Economic Times. A final contract is expected to be signed in early 2017.

The talks between Indian and Russian defense officials were allegedly accelerated ahead of an Indian-Russian summit to be held in Goa on October 15. As I reported in January, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi failed to reach an agreement during a bilateral meeting in Moscow in December 2015.

The FGFA/PMF project has been hampered by repeated delays since the start of the project in 2007 and the signing of a preliminary $295 million design contract in 2010. In 2015, Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar decided to make one last push toward reaching an agreement with Russia. I explained:

"Delays were caused by New Delhi and Moscow disagreeing over many fundamental aspects of the joint development project including work and cost share, aircraft technology, as well as the number of aircraft to be ordered."

After evaluating the first PAK FA T-50 prototype (the Russian prototype of the PMF), the Indian Air Force (IAF) wanted more than 40 changes addressing, among other things, perceived weaknesses in the plane’s engine, stealth, and weapon-carrying capabilities. Russia announced in late 2015 that it would only induct a squadron (18-24 aircraft) of PAK FA fighter aircraft, and procure additional Sukhoi Su-35 aircraft instead. The original deal involved Russia procuring 250 and India 144 aircraft at a cost of around $30 billion by 2022. As a result, India threatened to abandon the project in its entirety. Russia in turn made a number of concessions including an offer to cut down its financial contribution from $6 to $ 3.7 billion for three PAK FA T-50 prototypes and substantial technology transfers.

"Despite the agreeing on a work-share plan, problems with the FGFA/PMF project nevertheless will remain Russia’s defense industry is still facing technical (as well as financial) hurdles including designing a new engine for the aircraft, given that PAK FA prototypes are currently using engines also installed on Sukhoi Su-35S 4++ generation multi-role fighter jets, calling into question whether the PAK FA can genuinely be classified as an 5th generation aircraft"

As part of the effort to salvage the defense deal, Moscow has also agreed to let Indian test pilots fly the PAK FA T-50 prototype currently undergoing flight trials in Russia. Hundreds of flight tests have taken place over the last months and the Russian Air Force expects the first aircraft to be inducted into its ranks in 2017. Nevertheless, many senior officers in the IAF remain skeptical about the aircraft’s affordability and capabilities.

idrw.org . Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website , Kindly don't paste our work in other websites http://idrw.org/india-russia-reach-agreement-5th-generation-fighter-aircraft/ .

This article is a bullshit.
Once read about PAK FA flies with 117S (Al-41F-1S) engine from Su-35S you can drop it without to continue.

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