Sukhoi PAK FA

[john70]

a double....."....".....................post

 

[john70]

Agree superb stealthy frontal pic of
Northrop Grumman YF-23 Black Widow II

compare "FRONTAL STEALTH" shape features with this

But a better pic to compare would be this.....

An compare with a frontal image of F22 Raptor

An the Northrop Grumman YF-23 Black Widow II...is UGLY on looking from above....

 

[cobra commando]

India, Russia revive 5th- generation fighter aircraft talks; Kamov cost negotiations begin

 

[Gessler]

New radar system for PAK FA fighter
20 January 2016 ALEXÁNDER KOROLKOV, SPECIALLY FOR RIR
Russia's fifth-generation PAK FA fighter jet is likely to get a photonics-based radar system in the early 2020s, which can view stealth aircraft at distances beyond the range of air-to-air missiles.

A working model of the new radar, radio-optical phased array antenna (ROFAR), being developed by the state-owned Radio-Electronic Technologies (KRET), should be ready in 2018.

The main advantage of ROFAR is the width of its transmission frequency. While the transmission frequency of a modern radar system is 10 GHz, with ROFAR it can reach 100 GHz.

How does ROFAR work?
"In practice, this means that ROFAR can produce a detailed 3D image of what is happening hundreds of kilometres away. For example, at 400 kilometers it can not only see a person, but even recognize their face", said Vladimir Mikheyev, Advisor to KRET's First Deputy CEO.

According to KRET, the future ROFAR will be half the weight of the conventional radar system currently being developed for the fifth-generation fighter. Simultaneously, the resolution will be ten times better, making it possible to "virtually get a TV picture in the radar range".

Additional advantages
The use of radio-frequency photonic technology enables a significant reduction of aircraft visibility within the infrared spectrum, and of fuel consumption. This is possible because of the high efficiency of the future radar system, which will produce several times less heat. The developers will not have to include an additional powerful cooling system, which would significantly increase the mass of the product, and require electricity generated by the aircraft's engines at the cost of burning fuel.

It will not be possible to block ROFAR through high-power jamming. For jammers, the range of the electronic warfare system must be greater than that of the radio receiver, which is physically impossible with photonics-based radar.

If the ROFAR project is successfully completed, the technology will not only be used for airborne radar systems. According to Mikheyev, equipping Russian naval ships with ROFAR would make it possible to reduce the weight of on-board antenna systems by around 80-85%.

A fly in the ointment
The announcements from the Russian manufacturers sound optimistic, but economic realities, shortcomings in organization and management, and difficulties with training and recruiting personnel may hinder implementation of these ideas. Russia still has problems mass-producing airborne active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar systems like those the U.S. has, not only on its fifth-generation F-22 and F-35 fighter aircraft, but also on its latest fourth-generation F-16 and F-15 fighters. The only Russian AESA radar system, Zhuk-A, designed for the MiG-35, was first unveiled in 2009 but was still at the testing stage at the end of 2015.

The Russian government has allocated 680 million rubles (less than $10 million) to the entire ROFAR program. In comparison, the U.S. Department of Defence allocated $110 million dollars in photonics in 2014, and plans to raise at least as much from private investors.

Not only Russia and the U.S.A. are involved in this technology race. Scientists from Italy unveiled a working model of a photonics-based radar system in March 2013. And Jean-Loïc Galle, Executive Vice-President at France's Thales Group, said the company is stepping up work in this area.

With such global competition, the announcements from Russia's KRET that working technology is to be built in the near future sound almost like a challenge, and represent a further test of the mettle of Russia's defence industry.

http://in.rbth.com/economics/defence/2016/01/20/new-radar-system-for-pak-fa-fighter_560689

@SajeevJino

 

[Bahamut]

New radar system for PAK FA fighter
20 January 2016 ALEXÁNDER KOROLKOV, SPECIALLY FOR RIR
Russia's fifth-generation PAK FA fighter jet is likely to get a photonics-based radar system in the early 2020s, which can view stealth aircraft at distances beyond the range of air-to-air missiles.

A working model of the new radar, radio-optical phased array antenna (ROFAR), being developed by the state-owned Radio-Electronic Technologies (KRET), should be ready in 2018.

The main advantage of ROFAR is the width of its transmission frequency. While the transmission frequency of a modern radar system is 10 GHz, with ROFAR it can reach 100 GHz.

How does ROFAR work?
"In practice, this means that ROFAR can produce a detailed 3D image of what is happening hundreds of kilometres away. For example, at 400 kilometers it can not only see a person, but even recognize their face", said Vladimir Mikheyev, Advisor to KRET's First Deputy CEO.

According to KRET, the future ROFAR will be half the weight of the conventional radar system currently being developed for the fifth-generation fighter. Simultaneously, the resolution will be ten times better, making it possible to "virtually get a TV picture in the radar range".

Additional advantages
The use of radio-frequency photonic technology enables a significant reduction of aircraft visibility within the infrared spectrum, and of fuel consumption. This is possible because of the high efficiency of the future radar system, which will produce several times less heat. The developers will not have to include an additional powerful cooling system, which would significantly increase the mass of the product, and require electricity generated by the aircraft's engines at the cost of burning fuel.

It will not be possible to block ROFAR through high-power jamming. For jammers, the range of the electronic warfare system must be greater than that of the radio receiver, which is physically impossible with photonics-based radar.

If the ROFAR project is successfully completed, the technology will not only be used for airborne radar systems. According to Mikheyev, equipping Russian naval ships with ROFAR would make it possible to reduce the weight of on-board antenna systems by around 80-85%.

A fly in the ointment
The announcements from the Russian manufacturers sound optimistic, but economic realities, shortcomings in organization and management, and difficulties with training and recruiting personnel may hinder implementation of these ideas. Russia still has problems mass-producing airborne active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar systems like those the U.S. has, not only on its fifth-generation F-22 and F-35 fighter aircraft, but also on its latest fourth-generation F-16 and F-15 fighters. The only Russian AESA radar system, Zhuk-A, designed for the MiG-35, was first unveiled in 2009 but was still at the testing stage at the end of 2015.

The Russian government has allocated 680 million rubles (less than $10 million) to the entire ROFAR program. In comparison, the U.S. Department of Defence allocated $110 million dollars in photonics in 2014, and plans to raise at least as much from private investors.

Not only Russia and the U.S.A. are involved in this technology race. Scientists from Italy unveiled a working model of a photonics-based radar system in March 2013. And Jean-Loïc Galle, Executive Vice-President at France's Thales Group, said the company is stepping up work in this area.

With such global competition, the announcements from Russia's KRET that working technology is to be built in the near future sound almost like a challenge, and represent a further test of the mettle of Russia's defence industry.

http://in.rbth.com/economics/defence/2016/01/20/new-radar-system-for-pak-fa-fighter_560689

@SajeevJino

No need of AESR radar now ,let hope it gets implemented ,does it have any weakness?

 

[Gessler]

No need of AESR radar now ,let hope it gets implemented ,does it have any weakness?

PAK-FA/FGFA will definitely come with AESA at first...infact on an operational basis, in-service FGFAs will be with the Tikhomirov N036 AESA for atleast 10 years.

The shift from electrons to photons is a big, big one. We're talking about using a whole new level of the electromagnetic spectrum for detection/tracking purposes here. It's almost comparable to the shift from propeller engines to jet engines. It's gonna take a lot of time for testing & perfecting the tech for operational use. These radars are potentially capable of transmitting frequencies reaching the nanometer scale.

My intuition tells me that it's gonna be economically unviable to shift infrastructure to photons for just 1 radar for 1 type of plane. Remember that applications for this technology are endless - shipborne radars, AEW platforms, missile seekers, etc. will also have to be produced on the ROFAR basis to make the whole investment profitable in the long-run. And I'm pretty sure that's what Russia would be aiming for.

The challenge is that you're not just changing the array (as is the case with most radars that change from mechanically-steered to electronically-steered), but changing the whole back-end unit to an entirely new level.

--

Either way, once deployed, the ROFAR arrays will render the current concept of aircraft stealth completely irrelevant. The designs of the stealth aircraft of today are designed to defeat X-band transmissions while ROFAR can, at it's best, give us an image of the target as good as a photograph over several hundred kilometers. That's the important point.

 

[guru-dutt]

PAK-FA/FGFA will definitely come with AESA at first...infact on an operational basis, in-service FGFAs will be with the Tikhomirov N036 AESA for atleast 10 years.

The shift from electrons to photons is a big, big one. We're talking about using a whole new level of the electromagnetic spectrum for detection/tracking purposes here. It's almost comparable to the shift from propeller engines to jet engines. It's gonna take a lot of time for testing & perfecting the tech for operational use. These radars are potentially capable of transmitting frequencies reaching the nanometer scale.

My intuition tells me that it's gonna be economically unviable to shift infrastructure to photons for just 1 radar for 1 type of plane. Remember that applications for this technology are endless - shipborne radars, AEW platforms, missile seekers, etc. will also have to be produced on the ROFAR basis to make the whole investment profitable in the long-run. And I'm pretty sure that's what Russia would be aiming for.

The challenge is that you're not just changing the array (as is the case with most radars that change from mechanically-steered to electronically-steered), but changing the whole back-end unit to an entirely new level.

--

Either way, once deployed, the ROFAR arrays will render the current concept of aircraft stealth completely irrelevant. The designs of the stealth aircraft of today are designed to defeat X-band transmissions while ROFAR can, at it's best, give us an image of the target as good as a photograph over several hundred kilometers. That's the important point.

in the mean time china will invest billions in it and buy the services & help of russian and western experts along with its super industrial espionage and manufacturing capabillities will get it (this latest ROFAR tech) into serial production

 

[Gessler]

in the mean time china will invest billions in it and buy the services & help of russian and western experts along with its super industrial espionage and manufacturing capabillities will get it (this latest ROFAR tech) into serial production

Don't be so pessimistic, they are still struggling with reliable turbofan engines.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Don't be so pessimistic, they are still struggling with reliable turbofan engines.

At least they have a working engine at which they are struggling with

 

[gadeshi]

At least they have a working engine at which they are struggling with

Several ones, to be honest.
But they have to go long way in mastering intermetallide compounds theory and production and making seamless high-temperature single crystals from them.
While they bother with "super alloys" they will never get 2400K before turbine and 4000-6000 hours of lifetime in those environment.

 

[gadeshi]

in the mean time china will invest billions in it and buy the services & help of russian and western experts along with its super industrial espionage and manufacturing capabillities will get it (this latest ROFAR tech) into serial production

Nobody can "steal or buy technology".
You need to create hundreds (in particular cases - thousands) of complex inter-dependable production facilities and production chains between them and the main production branch to reproduce any.

 

[Gessler]

Several ones, to be honest.
But they have to go long way in mastering intermetallide compounds theory and production and making seamless high-temperature single crystals from them.
While they bother with "super alloys" they will never get 2400K before turbine and 4000-6000 hours of lifetime in those environment.

(translated)

"According to CAST blog, in interview to CAST representative at Zhuhai a Deputy Director of SARI has
reported that the current TBO of WS-10A Taihang is only 300 hours. Progress with improving TBO and other
characteristics is persist, but going slow. By his words, it is impossible to name a single issue causing
difficulties with Chinese aircraft engines - there are a range of issues, including those related to process
organisation and personnel. The situation with WS-13 Taishan, which should replace the Russian RD-93,
is even more complicated than with Taihang - TBO for WS-13 is less then that 1/2 than for WS-10A."

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/383025.html

SARI = Shenyang Aero-engine Research Institute

++

So as of 2012, the WS-10A had a Time Between Overhaul (TBO) of 300 hours, while the WS-13 (intended for JF-17 and lighter aircraft) is less than 1/2 that which means on this side of 150 hours. That is pretty ghastly.

Even the older-generation Klimov RD-93 had a TBO period of around 700 hours if I remember correctly. The Lyulka AL-31F used on IAF Sukhois had a TBO of 1,000 hours, that of Su-35's 117S is around 1,500 hrs if I'm right. Correct me if I'm wrong somewhere on this.

The General Electric F404 currently used on Tejas Mk-1 has a 3,000-hour TBO period.

 

[gadeshi]

Al-41F-1S (117S) has 4000 hours of full lifetime and 1000 hours of inter-repair.

 

[Gessler]

Al-41F-1S (117S) has 4000 hours of full lifetime and 1000 hours of inter-repair.

Any idea what could be the inter-repair (TBO) period for the AL-31FP after the Super-Sukhoi upgrade?

It is being stated that the MKI engines will get 20% uprated thrust (with a/b) after the upgrade. Which means around 151kN. Do you have any info on that?

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Several ones, to be honest.
But they have to go long way in mastering intermetallide compounds theory and production and making seamless high-temperature single crystals from them.
While they bother with "super alloys" they will never get 2400K before turbine and 4000-6000 hours of lifetime in those environment.

At least they are spending sweating and working on it

 

[gadeshi]

Any idea what could be the inter-repair (TBO) period for the AL-31FP after the Super-Sukhoi upgrade?

It is being stated that the MKI engines will get 20% uprated thrust (with a/b) after the upgrade. Which means around 151kN. Do you have any info on that?

Super Sukhoi will have another engine.
It will be Al-41F1S from Su-35S or Al-31FP-M1 (13500kgs) like on Su-30SM (depending on how deep will IAF want to modify its Su-30MKI fleet).

 

[gadeshi]

T-50-5R (1-05R) in the sunlight:

and T-50-2 (1-02) runs out with breaking parachute:

the same plane on a teke-off:

 

[BON PLAN]

PAK FA is still better than Rafale and can be used to fill in the MRCA gap. But I don't know how that would work out since it's supposed to be a dedicated Air Superiority Fighter and Rafale a multirole.

The difference is that RAFALE is operational. PAKFA is not.
It's a nice aeroclub high rank plane, but without an operational combat system, it's not more.

 

[Gessler]

T-50-5R (1-05R) in the sunlight:

Beautiful!

....................................................................................................

 

[gadeshi]

The difference is that RAFALE is operational. PAKFA is not.
It's a nice aeroclub high rank plane, but without an operational combat system, it's not more.

All the systems are operational (as LRIP starts next year).
However it has so unique abilities, unique avionics work modes and completely unique weapons that it needs significant time to test them all and then compose airmen instructions and tactics to give VKS the full understanding on how to use it properly.
And of course, you cannot compare medium (Rafale) and heavy (T-50) fighters from different generations. It is some naive