Sukhoi PAK FA

[Pulkit]

Fast rack Tejas mk1 mk2 with atleast close to 200 order.... Add 50 more su mki....After that do wat ever you want to.. buy all the useless expensive foreign toys for show....

Every aircaft has its plus and minus.

PAKFA is entering service in Russian airforce by 2016,

But right now IAF is all quite on PAKFA or FGFA, with a singular focus on spending all the 20 billions on rafale for deep strikes into tibet.They are showing no urgency on FGFA development.

Because the design changes they have asked for is not easy to be done by HAL itself and Russians right now are focused on producing and inducting PAKFA as it is and finding export customers to make money in international market.

Surprisingly IAf is not opting for the already practiced model of SU-30 MKI where it bought 40 planes initially and exchanged them to SU-30 MKI standards later.there is no urgency on part of IAF in doing this.

Right now they are fascinated by below 30 ton class MMRCA tender, with "no plan B to save IAF , in case rafale fails to materialize" motto.

Well they have an ASEA radar bigger than rafale and an internal weapon bay along with complete 5th gen X band stealth airframe.But no sense of anticipation from IAF on this count!!!.

Operating cost too would be similar to Su-30 MKis as both share lot of weapons , training and logistics will also be cheaper considering both will share a more or less similar footprint.

Similarly our retired and retiring Mig-21 drivers are showing no interest in AMCA program as well. From 2001 to 2010 they have done the glorious job of three ASR revisions already, when ADA first floated a modest proposal for a twin engined tail less delta with many techs from tejas .

Meanwhile this is what PLAF is doing,

China conducts test flights for nine aircraft: Kanwa | idrw.org

In the past decade they have developed and test flighted two 5th gen prototypes even though they have no engine techs,

Just think what could have happened to these program if their ASR was revised three times by PLAF and not allotted priority funding by 2001 itself.

that is the difference between PLAF and our Imported Airforce. They fund their products, back them and induct them into service creating a huge defence R&D cum production facility in their back yard, we are always busy spending our money abroad right from HF-24 marut days.

 

[ersakthivel]

The IDRW report mentions in a matter of fact way that "MOD has asked to revise the ralfale cost as costs have ballooned"!!!

And then goes on to say the contract is ready to be signed. Can you think contract be signed without finalizing cost.

This cost is the reason why rafale lost out all its previous contracts. Lets see what happens in india,

Also why this cost is such an important issue is, by noting what Air Marshal matheswaran stated in stratpost conference

"Availability, serviceability and reliability will be huge issues. And these are issues which need to be considered. With respect to MMRCA, it should have come, it should have been operational by 2008. Now that we've delayed it so long and we're boxing ourselves into a situation where again cost-factor will come into the picture, you've got to decide between FGFA and MMRCA if you're going to spend 30 billion dollars each on each of the programs – and the country has to take a call. And the reason – the responsibility for this 'boxing' is not with the air force. Its with the country as a whole – its with the entire system as a whole. And that's what you need to look at. Why have you allowed yourself to get boxed in like this?"

.

This what I have been saying by letting the financial bids lapse in its long drawn dubious evaluation process, IAF has really put the civilian govt in a fix.


SO this 20 billion on Rafale and 20 billion on FGFA to be funded at such close interval is almost impossble is what an IAF guy's view.

Lets see what IAF fanboys here tell about this!!!

 

[HMS Astute]

India currently spends only around $36bn a year on defence and it surprises me how it has managed to buy a lot of new equipments and maintained a huge quantity of active troops at the same time.

 

[ersakthivel]

India currently spends only around $36bn a year on defence and it surprises me how it has managed to buy a lot of new equipments and maintained a huge quantity of active troops at the same time.

MMRCA folks want to end that surprise once for all.Spending 20 billion dollar on rafale and 20 billion dollars on FGFA back to back is just impossible.
There are other serivces like Army and navy badly in need of money for much more essential programs.Couple of monsoon failures will really make things tricky for the GOI.
what will happen is either deal size will be reduced or induction being done in protracted period making the very rationale of buying them useless.

 

[p2prada]

India currently spends only around $36bn a year on defence and it surprises me how it has managed to buy a lot of new equipments and maintained a huge quantity of active troops at the same time.

Indian jugaad. (Indian innovation)

Using PPP, the budget is over $100 Billion. The importance of PPP.

 

[HMS Astute]

Indian jugaad. (Indian innovation)

Using PPP, the budget is over $100 Billion. The importance of PPP.

PPP is rubbish. How much does India spend on new military equipments a year? Do you have figures in $ and in terms of % of GDP nominal?

 

[p2prada]

PPP is rubbish. How much does India spend on new military equipments a year? Do you have figures in $ and in terms of % of GDP nominal?

Then how do you explain our numbers and equipment? PPP does the trick. A well paid software engineer gets 600-800 Pounds a month. PPP. Equivalent to earning 3000 Pounds in the UK.

Anyway, our capital expenditure this year is $15 Billion. Out of this at least 30-40% is known to be spent in the country and 60-70% is bought from outside the country. But this doesn't count license production that happens in the country, which involves money being invested in the country. Roughly only around 10% of the defense budget leaves the country every year. The rest is spent in India and this part of the budget should be measured in PPP.

The salary of a junior commissioned officer in India is around R. 50,000 a month, that's around 500 Pounds.

The salary of a soldier is around 200-250 Pounds.

I wonder how well can you live in the UK with these salaries? An American earning $5000 in the US is equivalent to an Indian earning $1000-1200 in India in order to lead a very similar quality of life.

All PPP.

PPP is rubbish if you compare an American with a European, but not if you compare with an Indian or a Chinese. Nominal applies only when the foreign exchange component is taken into consideration.

 

[Twinblade]

Thum! Kaun Aata Hai?: FGFA Front End Engineering Design Complete

Saturday, August 16, 2014
FGFA Front End Engineering Design Complete


On August 15, 2014, IANS reported that Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) has completed the front-end engineering design of the FGFA for the IAF. The UAC is currently preparing the contract on the aircraft's full-scale development.

UAC president Mikhail Pogosyan told Arms-Tass, "We have completed the front end engineering design stage. The work on the preparation of the contract on the FGFA full-scale development is now in progress."

It was earlier reported that a contract for R&D is being prepared. It was expected to be signed in late 2013. The value of the R&D contract is estimated to be worth $11 billion.

The delay in signing the R&D contract is attributed to India's concerns about its low level of participation in developing the aircraft, cost-overruns, delays and Russia's willingness to implement the 40 to 45 improvements in the fighter aircraft's design that India has sought.

HAL and Sukhoi finalized the design and technical specs of the aircraft and agreed on a work share for the research and development (R&D) phase in April 2013.

 

[arnabmit]

Great documentary on the T-50 PAK-FA

[video=youtube_share;YahgwrDrl7w]http://youtu.be/YahgwrDrl7w[/video]

[video=youtube_share;gtoadbZ6O-k]http://youtu.be/gtoadbZ6O-k[/video]

 

[HMS Astute]

Indian Air Force not happy with Sukhoi T-50/PAK-FA/FGFA

Besides the performance issues that may arise in future, the Sukhoi made stealth jet is of an exorbitant price and the architecture itself is poor and below the acceptable mark. The jet is powered by old and poor quality engines making it an unreliable and irrational weapon in the parade of the Indian Air Force.

Indian Air Force not happy with Sukhoi T-50/PAK-FA/FGFA | Defence Aviation

 

[arnabmit]

Arms lobby sponsored rant.

Indian Air Force not happy with Sukhoi T-50/PAK-FA/FGFA | Defence Aviation

 

[Zebra]

T-50 PAK-FA fighter jet project with Russia hits turbulence : North, News - India Today

Gautam Datt | Mail Today | New Delhi, August 31, 2014 | UPDATED 10:09 IST

 

[Eastman]

Along with Israeli and France avionics and and Indian mission computer with locally developed multiple display unit and MRF tyres, the Indian version of PAK-FA, the FGFA would be the best 5th Generation Aircraft in the World.

 

[brational]

Reliability of russian partners?. Time and again Russians are taking India for granted. Since our dependence on russian arms were exponentially high, they are charging exorbitant price for every equipments we are sourcing from them. The outcome is less indian contracts to russia. The govt must review and reshape its arm procurement policies from russia and initiate damage cotrol mechanism for the existing/ongoing projects.

 

[Pulkit]

T-50 PAK-FA fighter jet project with Russia hits turbulence : North, News - India Today

Gautam Datt | Mail Today | New Delhi, August 31, 2014 | UPDATED 10:09 IST

any reasons behind this act?
Even if it is delayed by an year or so it is still possible to have it by 2020 if we take corrective measures now....
BUt who is influencing this deal?
this is pathetic ..... What will Modi govt do now?
Shame!!!!!!!

First the subs now this one day two bad news.....

it appears powers around the world are threatened the way MOdi Govt is going .... this is a way to slow them down....

Or is it IAF who wants Rafale and only Rafale....


Navy deal slow down might also be result to exert pressure for Rafale....


What the F**K is going on????

 

[Zebra]

any reasons behind this act?
Even if it is delayed by an year or so it is still possible to have it by 2020 if we take corrective measures now....
BUt who is influencing this deal?
this is pathetic ..... What will Modi govt do now?
Shame!!!!!!!

First the subs now this one day two bad news.....

it appears powers around the world are threatened the way MOdi Govt is going .... this is a way to slow them down....

Or is it IAF who wants Rafale and only Rafale....


Navy deal slow down might also be result to exert pressure for Rafale....


What the F**K is going on????

Not sure.

May be ATD-X.

Can't say anything though.

 

[cobra commando]

Update on PMF/FGFA programme - SP�s Exculsive

 

[HMS Astute]

Russia is broke, let alone the additional deeper sanctions imposed by the international community. India will become like Russia's "milk cow" if it continues depending on their technology and arms imports. Russia needs filthy rich Indians money to fuel it's military projects and developments.

Driving India's worries is the fact that the Russians are neither explaining why a prototype aircraft caught fire during a technology demonstration earlier this year nor addressing other technical doubts expressed by India.

Time to cancel all the proposed contracts with every foreign arms supplier and invest that billions of tax payers' hard earned money in local defence contractors and projects which will not only create thousands of jobs for the Indian workers, but a solid foundation, the experience, and experiments which could lead to superior developments in the future. Prosperity for all.

 

[Pulkit]

Russia is broke, let alone the additional deeper sanctions imposed by the international community. India will become like Russia's "milk cow" if it continues depending on their technology and arms imports. Russia needs filthy rich Indians money to fuel it's military projects and developments.


Time to cancel all the proposed contracts with every foreign arms supplier and invest that billions of tax payers' hard earned money in local defence contractors and projects which will not only create thousands of jobs for the Indian workers, but a solid foundation, the experience, and experiments which could lead to superior developments in the future. Prosperity for all.

yeah and we know how reliable "others" can be......
they gave us things which "others" didnt even at a price....

 

[HMS Astute]

yeah and we know how reliable "others" can be......
they gave us things which "others" didnt even at a price....

Heavily relying on the technology of other countries will only hurt India and it's developing defence contractors. China used to be in the same boat like India, but things have changed a lot in their armed forces now. China learns speedily from others and develop superior products which are based on the technology they buy, steal and copy. The gap between China and India will be even much wider in the long term when it comes to innovation, invention and transformation.