Sukhoi PAK FA

[p2prada]

Ah yes, the usual... If there's a delay or problem, I get told that the FGFA is a separate program; if exports come up, I get told that India is a full/equal partner in the entire PAK-FA enterprise. Make up your mind prada; can't have it both ways.

A delay is a delay. You told me some months ago that money India's prototype had already changed hands, so don't go blaming this on bureaucratic red-tape.

Yes, a delay, but not for the reasons you think and definitely not like the reasons why LM is stuck with the F-35.

There was an initial one to two year delay because HAL had not finalized the cockpit design for FGFA. Now, there is an apparent "one" year delay because of contract negotiations. These are not "project killing" issues and nothing to do with downgrading the final specs because of technical issues.

There was a financial transaction early on, don't forget the $295 Million PDC which has been completed as of April this year.

You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

First report,
Fifth generation fighter crosses milestone - The Hindu

"The aircraft design has been fully developed," Sukhoi said in a press release. "Both parties have agreed upon on the amount and division of work during the research and development (R&D) stage. A contract for the R&D is being prepared. It is to be signed this year."

The only sticking point is the last line in bold. According to the media, it is delayed. However, there is nothing about the actual length of the delay. Finishing the PDC by April 2013 and signing the contract even by March 2014 would still mean the project is on track because contract signature will still be within this fiscal and well before the elections.

There is a chance it is the media which is making a mountain out of a molehill.

The simple fact is the contract is still being negotiated and the end of the year is still some ways away. Our defence minister will be touring Russia soon, in November.

Earlier reports claimed we will receive the first prototype at the "end" of 2014. Now they say it will be 2015. They didn't mention if it is early 2015 or end 2015. I, for one, see very little difference between end 2014 and early 2015.

So don't jump the gun yet, that too over silly little hiccups. A little bit of common sense goes a long way.

 

[arnabmit]

India's Share in Joint Fighter Project With Russia Likely to Grow | idrw.org

SOURCE: RIA Novosti

India's share in research-and-development work for the joint Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) project with Russia is currently limited by India's domestic industrial capabilities but will gradually increase with the project's implementation, a Russian military expert said Friday.

India's The Economic Times newspaper reported on October 17 that Indian military officials were concerned over the country's work share in the FGFA project, which is currently only 15 percent even though New Delhi is bearing 50 percent of the cost.

According to the paper, India's defense minister is expected to raise that issue during his visit to Russia beginning November 15.

"The figure cited by the Indian side reflects current capabilities of India's industry, in particular the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited [HAL] corporation," said Igor Korotchenko, head of the Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Global Arms Trade.

"With the progress in the implementation of this project, we expect the Indian engineers and designers to approach the share determined in the [Russian-Indian] agreement: 50 percent," Korotchenko said in an exclusive interview with RIA Novosti.

Russia will certainly provide all necessary knowledge and logistics support to Indian specialists, but developing skills and acquiring experience in design and development of advanced fighter aircraft takes a long time and substantial effort, the expert added.

The FGFA project began following a Russian-Indian agreement on cooperation in the development and production of the perspective multirole fighter, signed on October 18, 2007.

The Indian fighter jet will be based on the Russian single-seat Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA fifth-generation fighter, which now has four prototypes flying, but it will be designed to meet about 50 specific requirements by the Indian Air Force (IAF).

In December 2010, Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport, India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited and Russian aircraft maker Sukhoi Company signed a preliminary design development contract worth $295 million for the new aircraft.

Currently the $11 billion final design and research-and-development contract is under negotiation between the two countries. The total program is expected to cost India about $25 billion to 30 billion.

The IAF had initially planned to order 166 single-seat and 48 twin-seat fighters, but India's chief of air staff said in October last year that New Delhi would now go for only 144 single-seat jets, with domestic production slated to begin in 2020.

 

[gadeshi]

The 5-th prototype of PAK FA (01-5) has made his maiden flight today!!!
Waiting for photos and videos!!!

 

[gadeshi]

Unofficial spotters photo of 01-5 maiden flight:

 

[Drsomnath999]

somewhere in paralay.com

it was posted
http://translate.google.co.in/trans...ru/conferences/22343/233.html#p274929&act=url

BTW gadeshi you are from paralay.com indeed


CHEERS

 

[gadeshi]

 

[gadeshi]

somewhere in paralay.com

it was posted
Google Translate

BTW gadeshi you are from paralay.com indeed


CHEERS

Yes, but not from only there...

 

[mahesh]

India has dropped its initial plan to redesign the single-seat T-50 into a twin-seat version.

is this a advantage or disadvantage

 

[rugved]

From where and how do you come up with such superb photos so soon?

 

[p2prada]

India has dropped its initial plan to redesign the single-seat T-50 into a twin-seat version.

is this a advantage or disadvantage

Both. A two seat version is planned in the future.

 

[gadeshi]

From where and how do you come up with such superb photos so soon?

It's not me

It's some guy from KnA I've just reposted them here from Russian resources.
@p2prada:

It's no need for 2-nd pilot in PAK FA because FCS/CCS systems has taken the most of his functions.
It's PR-ed in Russia as one of the main key features of the G5 at all and T-50 in particular.

PS: From the personal blog of Dmitriy Medvedev (Russian Prime Minister) - the working trip to KnA:

 

[p2prada]

It's no need for 2-nd pilot in PAK FA because FCS/CCS systems has taken the most of his functions.
It's PR-ed in Russia as one of the main key features of the G5 at all and T-50 in particular.

The removal of the second pilot because of reduced workload is fine, but this is only in fighter type functions. Now imagine if you had a second pilot in terms of battlespace management.

While the PAKFA may not, FGFA is expected to have 360 degree radar capability. The radar is an X band radar with ranges above 500 Km. If the main pilot can do everything by himself to keep his plane flying, then the second pilot alone can reduce the footprint of AWACS. This capability removes AWACS as a player and increases fleet survivability as a whole because the enemy won't be able to find a weak target. Heck it will be difficult for the enemy to pinpoint an "AWACS" with the ability to climb 75000 feet and supercruise endlessly. The second pilot will end up assigning targets and prioritizing mission objectives and service a much larger group of aircraft than regular 4th gen aircraft like MKI can. It will take off the "mini" in mini-AWACS. :thumb:

The second pilot can also become a UCAV controller and put UCAVs in high risk missions while having a man in the air watching the op. It minimizes or takes away the risk of jamming interfering with UCAV signals from ground control.

This is among the reasons why IAF wanted a mix of single and double seat aircraft. So, we might see this in the future. During AI-2013 Pog mentioned that two seat FGFA is still in the game but will be taken up at a later date.

 

[drkrn]

The removal of the second pilot because of reduced workload is fine, but this is only in fighter type functions. Now imagine if you had a second pilot in terms of battlespace management.

While the PAKFA may not, FGFA is expected to have 360 degree radar capability. The radar is an X band radar with ranges above 500 Km. If the main pilot can do everything by himself to keep his plane flying, then the second pilot alone can reduce the footprint of AWACS. This capability removes AWACS as a player and increases fleet survivability as a whole because the enemy won't be able to find a weak target. Heck it will be difficult for the enemy to pinpoint an "AWACS" with the ability to climb 75000 feet and supercruise endlessly. The second pilot will end up assigning targets and prioritizing mission objectives and service a much larger group of aircraft than regular 4th gen aircraft like MKI can. It will take off the "mini" in mini-AWACS. :thumb:

The second pilot can also become a UCAV controller and put UCAVs in high risk missions while having a man in the air watching the op. It minimizes or takes away the risk of jamming interfering with UCAV signals from ground control.

This is among the reasons why IAF wanted a mix of single and double seat aircraft. So, we might see this in the future. During AI-2013 Pog mentioned that two seat FGFA is still in the game but will be taken up at a later date.

range of 500km.thats too big.

 

[p2prada]

range of 500km.thats too big.

Radar range? No, it is not. That's pretty much a standard for a 900mm dia ESA now.

 

[gadeshi]

The removal of the second pilot because of reduced workload is fine, but this is only in fighter type functions. Now imagine if you had a second pilot in terms of battlespace management.

While the PAKFA may not, FGFA is expected to have 360 degree radar capability. The radar is an X band radar with ranges above 500 Km. If the main pilot can do everything by himself to keep his plane flying, then the second pilot alone can reduce the footprint of AWACS. This capability removes AWACS as a player and increases fleet survivability as a whole because the enemy won't be able to find a weak target. Heck it will be difficult for the enemy to pinpoint an "AWACS" with the ability to climb 75000 feet and supercruise endlessly. The second pilot will end up assigning targets and prioritizing mission objectives and service a much larger group of aircraft than regular 4th gen aircraft like MKI can. It will take off the "mini" in mini-AWACS. :thumb:

The second pilot can also become a UCAV controller and put UCAVs in high risk missions while having a man in the air watching the op. It minimizes or takes away the risk of jamming interfering with UCAV signals from ground control.

This is among the reasons why IAF wanted a mix of single and double seat aircraft. So, we might see this in the future. During AI-2013 Pog mentioned that two seat FGFA is still in the game but will be taken up at a later date.

You maybe forget about another one G5 key feature: network-centric warfare. All the battlespace management will be done in the ASU BD (combat network and automation) centers and command points.

PAK FA has 360 degree radar coverage field and full-sphere electro-optical field as well. However, the second pilot is believed to be an excessive even though. The only role for him remains a drones commander (supervisor). However, this will not be required untill yrs 2025-2030 at least, when the viable heavy UCAVs will come to the stage.

 

[drkrn]

Radar range? No, it is not. That's pretty much a standard for a 900mm dia ESA now.

wow thats huge.no wonder latest aesa jets are mini awacs.

what could be the range of rafale?any comparision to chinese jets,though off topic.

i the fighter jets could see 500 km,i wonder what could a phalcom AEW&C do.

 

[gadeshi]

Rafale has 240-250 km on 1 sq m RCS target in 100 sq deg sector.

RBE-2 has too small aperture and peak power capacity to compete with heavy fighters AESA radars, which only proves that medium fighter is not a serious competitor for the heavy one. Heavy will always win except for the special cases with external circumstances and tactics and also numbers

 

[drkrn]

Rafale has 240-250 km on 1 sq m RCS target in 100 sq deg sector.

RBE-2 has too small aperture and peak power capacity to compete with heavy fighters AESA radars, which only proves that medium fighter is not a serious competitor for the heavy one. Heavy will always win except for the special cases with external circumstances and tactics and also numbers

thanks for reply.is pakfa 500 km range is against 1sq.m size(is this the standard size of radar cross section?)
any way 200 km too is big

any idea about phalcon AEW&C of israel?

 

[gadeshi]

Bear in mind, that French have never published RBE2 actual technical data, except for TRMs count.
The numbers I've named are suggested by some guys on the French resources.
Russian experts give the RBE2 less than 200 km in 100 sq deg sector for 1 sq m RCS target.

 

[drkrn]

Bear in mind, that French have never published RBE2 actual technical data, except for TRMs count.
The numbers I've named are suggested by some guys on the French resources.
Russian experts give the RBE2 less than 200 km in 100 sq deg sector for 1 sq m RCS target.

according to you,is this a good range vis-a-vis pakistan airforce/chinese airforce