Small arms and Light Weapons

[ALBY]

Country made muskets

 

[Twinblade]

This baby can take Standard AK mags as well

View attachment 93023

AR-15 pattern rifles don't take well to 7.62x39 ammunition due to feed ramp geometry limitations inside AR-15 chassis.

The larger curves of 7.62x39 rub against feed ramp edges shaving off a bit of copper slivers, which ends up on locking surfaces, firing pin channel and leads to malfunctions over the long run.

 

[FalconSlayers]

AR-15 pattern rifles don't take well to 7.62x39 ammunition due to feed ramp geometry limitations inside AR-15 chassis.

The larger curves of 7.62x39 rub against feed ramp edges shaving off a bit of copper slivers, which ends up on locking surfaces, firing pin channel and leads to malfunctions over the long run.

What are the issues of using .300 BLK instead of 7.62x39 for CASO/COIN Operations? It’s manufacturing, costs and logistics are the issues right?

 

[ALBY]

What are the issues of using .300 BLK instead of 7.62x39 for CASO/COIN Operations? It’s manufacturing, costs and logistics are the issues right?

U have to buy new guns, made new production lines for. 300blk rounds, and all the above issues cited by u. Almost all the scenarios jn India could be dealt with the 7.62x39 ammo.

 

[FalconSlayers]

U have to buy new guns, made new production lines for. 300blk rounds, and all the above issues cited by u. Almost all the scenarios jn India could be dealt with the 7.62x39 ammo.

Conversion kits for AR-15s are available, but when you phase out INSAS and old AKs and select say IWI Arad, you can give converted 300 BLK Arads to RR units instead of 7.62x39 AKs that are old. But then we have upgraded AKs left, Army wants 762 russian AKs for RR but is throwing it on infantry, no logic. But then they can use upgraded AKs.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

.300 BLK round was mainly designed to be compatible with an AR-15 type platform, due to incompatibility issues which arose from 7.62*39 mm round. In addition, ballistics of .300 BLK were designed to be very similar to the 7.62*39 mm round. The compatibility was needed since USA operates a large number of AR platforms.

In our cases, that problem does not exists. We already have AKs from different countries and now from OFBs. So .300 BLK will not find many takers in India.

 

[FalconSlayers]

What is the small arms requirement?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Total assault rifle requirement for Infantry is 3.6 L. Two batches for 1.4 L (total) has been ordered. Another 1.8 L is to ordered.
Now that 1.8L becomes Sig 716, or AK203 or OFB R-2 is to be seen.

Non-infantry troops: AK203 or equivalent platform
Carbine for infantry/non-infantry: Total requirement is around 4.5 L.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Total assault rifle requirement for Infantry is 3.6 L. Two batches for 1.4 L (total) has been ordered. Another 1.8 L is to ordered.
Now that 1.8L becomes Sig 716, or AK203 or OFB R-2 is to be seen.

Non-infantry troops: AK203 or equivalent platform
Carbine for infantry/non-infantry: Total requirement is around 4.5 L.

Somewhere I saw 7,50,000 assault rifles, 3 lakh battle rifles and 3.5 lakh carbines.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Total assault rifle requirement for Infantry is 3.6 L. Two batches for 1.4 L (total) has been ordered. Another 1.8 L is to ordered.
Now that 1.8L becomes Sig 716, or AK203 or OFB R-2 is to be seen.

Non-infantry troops: AK203 or equivalent platform
Carbine for infantry/non-infantry: Total requirement is around 4.5 L.

What so you guys think about the OFB R2? I like the way it looks in the video attached(with the folding and adjustable stock, ig its FAB Defence one) , IMO only things that should be changed is the magazine
instead of that old SLR magazine they’re using on it right now and the pistol grip to the newer designs we saw in the OFB stall at Aero India 21(don’t know if it’s been implemented to all the guns as no clear pic was available of this rifle in aero India)
In the beginning I felt the recoil was too much, but after looking at the SIG 716i and other 7.62x51 rifles, I feel it’s alright actually.

 

[Marliii]

What so you guys think about the OFB R2? I like the way it looks in the video attached(with the folding and adjustable stock, ig its FAB Defence one) , IMO only things that should be changed is the magazine
instead of that old SLR magazine they’re using on it right now and the pistol grip to the newer designs we saw in the OFB stall at Aero India 21(don’t know if it’s been implemented to all the guns as no clear pic was available of this rifle in aero India)
In the beginning I felt the recoil was too much, but after looking at the SIG 716i and other 7.62x51 rifles, I feel it’s alright actually.

Sig716 is in service and army is now actively trying to avoid OFB in small arms

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

What so you guys think about the OFB R2? I like the way it looks in the video attached(with the folding and adjustable stock, ig its FAB Defence one) , IMO only things that should be changed is the magazine
instead of that old SLR magazine they’re using on it right now and the pistol grip to the newer designs we saw in the OFB stall at Aero India 21(don’t know if it’s been implemented to all the guns as no clear pic was available of this rifle in aero India)
In the beginning I felt the recoil was too much, but after looking at the SIG 716i and other 7.62x51 rifles, I feel it’s alright actually.

I feel CAPF should try this gun out, army is going good with 716.

 

[Twinblade]

What so you guys think about the OFB R2? I like the way it looks in the video attached(with the folding and adjustable stock, ig its FAB Defence one) , IMO only things that should be changed is the magazine
instead of that old SLR magazine they’re using on it right now and the pistol grip to the newer designs we saw in the OFB stall at Aero India 21(don’t know if it’s been implemented to all the guns as no clear pic was available of this rifle in aero India)
In the beginning I felt the recoil was too much, but after looking at the SIG 716i and other 7.62x51 rifles, I feel it’s alright actually.

Ditch the trunnion+dustcover design for upper+lower receiver design like in the new AARDE-OFB carbine, make a magwell that supports SR-10 magazine, add bolt catch release feature, shift the charging handle back like in the ARDE-OFB carbine and it should do well.

 

[Killbot]

Ditch the trunnion+dustcover design for upper+lower receiver design like in the new AARDE-OFB carbine, make a magwell that supports SR-10 magazine, add bolt catch release feature, shift the charging handle back like in the ARDE-OFB carbine and it should do well.

Basically Sig-550 series type weapon that takes AR-10 mags. Yeah, that should do. Just beef up the OFB carbine and make some aesthetic improvements over it.

 

[Twinblade]

Basically Sig-550 series type weapon that takes AR-10 mags. Yeah, that should do. Just beef up the OFB carbine and make some aesthetic improvements over it.

Sig-550 itself was designed initially for 7.5 mm Swiss because SiG expected Swiss Army to either stick with 7.5 Swiss or go with 7.62x51 NATO. Swiss army later changed program requirement to 5.56 and it was quickly accomodated. SiG later launched 750 series in 7.62x51 as SiG SAPR.

 

[Killbot]

Sig-550 itself was designed initially for 7.5 mm Swiss because SiG expected Swiss Army to either stick with 7.5 Swiss or go with 7.62x51 NATO. Swiss army later changed program requirement to 5.56 and it was quickly accomodated. SiG later launched 750 series in 7.62x51 as SiG SAPR.

The gas block on the Sig 550 and 750 series is pretty good. I'd have liked to see those on OFB made AKs and INSAS based weapons.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

A new rifle from OFB based on the Sig 550 patterned carbine that OFB recently launched in (Defence Expo 2020), would make things interesting.

Even if not inducted, it will at least it would give Army some bargaining power with Sig USA to reduce the price of future batches of Sig -716.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

 

[Gessler]

It would be nice to own a semi auto rifle in India. But the Arms act treats gunowners as potential criminals. Now they are reducing guns per licence holder from 3 to 2, which means apart from pistols you can either own a shotgun or a sporting rifle.

Worst part is, existing legal gunowners with 3 weapons will have to surrender one at their police station or risk getting branded as criminals.

On the plus side, you can soon buy Glocks.

Ownership aside, I think it'd be great if you could at least go to a commercially-run shooting range, shoot some guns from their armory under supervision, hand in the guns and go on your way. Something like this:


RKBA is non existent in India and certainly won't be sprung into existence overnight...just like how 2nd Amendment rights do not disappear in US overnight, so the best way to take steps toward presence of firearms in the civilian sphere in India may be like how the Left is taking apart 2A in US - piece by piece, step by step.

Goes back to a line I heard from someone a while ago...you can't get someone to fight for something that they've never had in the first place. Communist ideologies wrt economics or society would get summarily shot down in a lot of Eastern European countries, cuz they've seen what communism was like, and have also seen the fruits of capitalism in the decades that followed. They won't stand for it if you talk of taking it away.

In a country where people are yet to experience the fruits of capitalism, communism sounds like music to ears and everyone wants a piece of it, and no one sees the danger of it.

Anyway, I'm just blathering on...

 

[Twinblade]

@AVINASH4061

Avinash ji, we know you are a busy man with a business and family to look after, but here's a request from my side. There is very little information available on the internet from the users perspective regarding the pros and shortcomings of the INSAS rifle. There are some anecdotes here and there like it jams a lot, furniture is fragile, extraction is poor, the rifle is very accurate, pleasant to shoot but very little on exact reason on why it happened. The operational history of INSAS is very poorly documented in open source, compared to say the M4/M16 family whose each generation and production block is well documented.

It's far more easy to find information on some obscure european rifles and prototypes compared to INSAS. If you can take out time, it would be nice to have a technical article on INSAS with pictures of the components, indicating wears and common points of failures, what went wrong and possibly how it could have been fixed. The article may well be featured on DFI homepage which regularly features articles from other contributors.