Small arms and Light Weapons

[NoobWannaLearn]

Wtf is this obsession with tevor

 

[Love Charger]

I posted unknowingly I am very sorry

You should be actually sorry for 10,000 times now .
You always post old news

 

[Love Charger]

Ever heard about the word sweet spot?

Yes, you can't use a 5.56x45mm beyond 400m in normal combat condition. (Normal combat condition = you're using a typical carbine not a DMR, you've general issued sights not LPVO, you don't have the luxury to get prone and wait 10-15 sec to adjust drop)

Yes, you can't use 5.56x45mm in room clearing scenarios coz then you would be shooting a round through the target, followed by the hostage behind him, then the kid hiding behind the hostage. Moreover at the close of a range a SCHV round neither expands nor tumbles so you'll have to either aim for brain stem or keet shooting him 6-8 times.

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This is a .50 BMG pistol, more compact and light than almost all carbines and SMG. So will you use it in a hostage situation?

I think the whole concept of hostage situation you've is wrong. We don't use SMGs because they are shorter then carbines; we simply use them because they can shoot pistol calibre rounds in full auto because that's the round that'll guarantee a increased stopping power, low over-penetration and low collateral damage.

Yes sweet spot is present in women.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Yes sweet spot is present in women.

Doesn't matter
What matters is whether you're able to reach there or not

 

[Flying Dagger]

ASMI has still not matured enough to be an option for MP9.
MP9s is more compact, lightweight and has a lower cyclic rate

Ever heard about the word sweet spot?

Yes, you can't use a 5.56x45mm beyond 400m in normal combat condition. (Normal combat condition = you're using a typical carbine not a DMR, you've general issued sights not LPVO, you don't have the luxury to get prone and wait 10-15 sec to adjust drop)

Yes, you can't use 5.56x45mm in room clearing scenarios coz then you would be shooting a round through the target, followed by the hostage behind him, then the kid hiding behind the hostage. Moreover at the close of a range a SCHV round neither expands nor tumbles so you'll have to either aim for brain stem or keet shooting him 6-8 times.

View attachment 195872
This is a .50 BMG pistol, more compact and light than almost all carbines and SMG. So will you use it in a hostage situation?

I think the whole concept of hostage situation you've is wrong. We don't use SMGs because they are shorter then carbines; we simply use them because they can shoot pistol calibre rounds in full auto because that's the round that'll guarantee a increased stopping power, low over-penetration and low collateral damage.

And you can use mp5 for beyond 400 m ?



Carbine are for engagement 100m-200m range in general anyway.


In hostage situation against whom terrorists?

Even small criminals wear soft armour these days. So you do need a bullet to penetrate that. One of the reason we went for MINSAS round in JVPC.

One can always opt for an intermediate round like .223 either which can serve both purpose better.

Asmi fire bullet is cleared in trials so it's good. Also we have DRDO's Cornershot kit to use 9mm pistols . There are copy of mp5 available and JVPC.


Bottomline : MP5 and family is too expensive to put our money on.. specially when we have inhouse and other option available.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Doesn't matter
What matters is whether you're able to reach there or not

You can reach there .. what matters is whether you are willing to waste your time and money offcourse brain goes down the drain too.

 

[Lonewarrior]

One of the reason we went for MINSAS round in JVPC

I can go on and on, on why we went for MINSAS and also why we dumped it. Or perhaps why everyone's dumping P90 and MP7. Or I can tell you everything about Anamika. Or how if something is working then it doesn't mean it's better than the other. Or how a short recoil is going to beat simple blowback anyday.

But nothing will help in reaching a conclusion. So instead I'll ask you a very simple question.

Even small criminals wear soft armour these days.

Cite this example of yours.

 

[Flying Dagger]

I can go on and on, on why we went for MINSAS and also why we dumped it. Or perhaps why everyone's dumping P90 and MP7. Or I can tell you everything about Anamika. Or how if something is working then it doesn't mean it's better than the other. Or how a short recoil is going to beat simple blowback anyday.

But nothing will help in reaching a conclusion. So instead I'll ask you a very simple question.


Cite this example of yours.

Uttar Pradesh: 3 men held for supplying illegal firearms, bullet proof jackets to criminals | Meerut News - Times of India

Three men were arrested in Uttar Pradesh's Muzaffarnagar district on Monday for allegedly supplying bulletproof jackets and illegal firearms to crimin

m.timesofindia.com

 

[Lonewarrior]

Even small criminals wear soft armour these days

Cite an encounter where the criminal or terrorists were wearing body armour

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Wtf is this obsession with tevor

 

[SKC]

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These two can do wonders in Western and EU markets. MSMC/JVPC is already popular in COD and other online RPG games.

 

[another_armchair]

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I swear I have nothing to do with this.

 

[Lonewarrior]

View attachment 195910

I swear I have nothing to do with this.

Wait till ISRO orders a bunch of X-95s

 

[Flying Dagger]

Cite an encounter where the criminal or terrorists were wearing body armour

You'll keep changing the goal post.

The point of my post wasn't to belittle you or make you wrong in front of anyone.

 

[Lonewarrior]

You'll keep changing the goal post.

The point of my post wasn't to belittle you or make you wrong in front of anyone.

Naah Mate...even I don't get belittled. Chill

The point was, this whole concept of enemies wearing body armour has been proven wrong time and time. The whole NATO once shat their pants fearing a VDV assault on their rear echelon. This was the whole point of developing things like P90 and MP7; to penetrate the Kevlar + Titanium armour of VDV without using something as cumbersome as an assault rifle. But soon technological changes happened and we got to a point where assault rifle can be made as short as a PWD (the point you're trying to make). So from this argument one thing's pretty much clear that PDWs are now pretty much obsolete.

Now coming to SMGs.
SMGs have numerous flaws; can't shoot beyond couple of hundred meters, can be stopped by a single ceramic plate. But still room clearing with hostage is one such area where you'll see SMGs for a very long time. As of now nowhere in the world we have witnessed a proliferation of body armour in such a level that you need to go back to drawing board. And even in worst case scenario where there is a possibility of people wearing body armour; remember you can always switch your standard issue 9mm with +P or even +P+ ammo.

Even if you don't agree with me you'll keep seeing various SF units using SMGs for room clearing. Though some have started using .300 BLK/7.62x39mm based carbines, but still the bulk would be of SMGs.

 

[WolfPack86]

NSG to purchase 10 units of 9x19 Machine Pistol ASMI from Lokesh Machines Limited.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

What I want to know is wtf is the CRPF planning to shoot with 9mm Tavors. They'll likely use these to stand guard for election duties or guarding a babu. But some big brain individual in charge of this procurement decided they really needed to shoot 9x19 from a 17 inch barrel (such velocity much wow) of a carbine sized weapon that weighs 3.5 kgs for their duties.

 

[Lonewarrior]

What I want to know is wtf is the CRPF planning to shoot with 9mm Tavors. They'll likely use these to stand guard for election duties or guarding a babu. But some big brain individual in charge of this procurement decided they really needed to shoot 9x19 from a 17 inch barrel (such velocity much wow) of a carbine sized weapon that weighs 3.5 kgs for their duties.

Perhaps more interesting is the number; 90.

If they wanted to update their MP-5s then I guess they have heck more of MP-5s than just 90. Even if they want to arms just a small elite urban warfare unit with these then also numbers are very low; coz remember NSG being such a small force ordered similar numbers of MP-9, then from that point too CRPF should have ordered more.

God knows what change these 90 SMGs are going to bring in a 3L strong force

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

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JVPC with this silver and black looks much better than fully blacked one.

Unfortunately CRPF becomes UNCRPF is the shame

 

[WolfPack86]

X 95 Flat Tavor assault rifle delivered to Jammu and Kashmir police.