Small arms and Light Weapons

[Love Charger]

Sig Sauer has won a 10-year contract with the U.S. Army with an initial delivery order worth $20.4 million and a ceiling value of $4.7 billion. Under this contract, the company will supply a family of weapons of up to 250,000 rifles and light machine guns. The XM5 Rifle will replace the M4/M4A1 carbine within the close combat force, and the XM250 Automatic Rifle will replace the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW). Having won the handgun contract in 2017, that makes Sig Sauer the premier supplier of small arms providers to the Army’s close combat and special operations forces.View attachment 152756
Vortex Optics subsidiary Sheltered Wings has been selected to build as many as 250,000 Next Generation Squad Weapon – Fire Control systems at a starting price of about $2.7 billion over the next decade. The partnership beat out L3 Harris, the other company selected to provide a prototype for testing and evaluation.



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Here is the link to the video:

This gun looks so beautiful, I don't think usa had any need to replace m 4s , your mic needs to run so they build new things

 

[Wisemarko]

This gun looks so beautiful, I don't think usa had any need to replace m 4s , your mic needs to run so they build new things

I bet someone said the same thing when M1 Garand was the standard issue.

 

[Lonewarrior]

I think they might be referring to muzzle rise, not recoil... Some other flash hiders do also work somewhat like compensators.

Sometimes it's better to call a spade a spade.
Flash hiders neither compensate muzzle rise nor they are using "some other" flash hiders.

Even if you consider modern multipurpose flash hiders then they also offer only marginal improvement in all three.

 

[Lonewarrior]

View attachment 152872

View attachment 152873

1. That's the gas tube retention latch in the first picture.

2. That's called an 'indicator cut'.
It indicates that the rail is more or less a TWS Dog Leg rail.

3. I've no idea what those two thumbscrew like things are supposed to do. But I'm guessing they simply clamp the dust cover down; a quite hilarious way of retaining zero.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Compare these two vids (AK-12 flaws are replicated in AK-15, just caliber changed)

They don't have real AK -12 do they ? But copy/replicas... To judge.

Having said that issue related to dustcover or buttstock can be sorted out using zenitco aftermarket. Russian SF does that. It just increase the cost. We also got FAB mod again on the expensive side.

Other than that there isn't any fundamental issue

Cost is why we opted for a downgraded AK 203 let's atleast agree on this.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

They don't have real AK -12 do they ? But copy/replicas... To judge.

Having said that issue related to dustcover or buttstock can be sorted out using zenitco aftermarket. Russian SF does that. It just increase the cost. We also got FAB mod again on the expensive side.

Other than that there isn't any fundamental issue

Cost is why we opted for a downgraded AK 203 let's atleast agree on this.

Cost is one of the reasons, main one is that the expensive ones are worse than the cheap ones. And if our SF need collapsing buttstock, they can get it aftermarket themselves, why get aftermarket for everyone. Fixed folding one good enough for regular troops. Apart from it, all other things are better in (Indian variant of) AK 203 than in AK 15.

No awkward sling mount, no poor folding mech, no plastic bending free floating handguard (here the handguard has metal frames and is fixed to barrel, so can take IR illuminator et cetera, for upgradability), no issue with losing zero, et al.

 

[ManhattanProject]

They don't have real AK -12 do they ? But copy/replicas... To judge.

Having said that issue related to dustcover or buttstock can be sorted out using zenitco aftermarket. Russian SF does that. It just increase the cost. We also got FAB mod again on the expensive side.

Other than that there isn't any fundamental issue

Cost is why we opted for a downgraded AK 203 let's atleast agree on this.

They are not copies or replicas, they buy demilled or cut Ak12s made by russia. The only thing They have to make is the reciever and the barrel. Both the trunion and rest of the parts are all genuine russian made. All the furniture is russian too.
Russia makes shoddy crap and sells us that shit at hiked prices.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

They are not copies or replicas, they buy demilled or cut Ak12s made by russia. The only thing They have to make is the reciever and the barrel. Both the trunion and rest of the parts are all genuine russian made. All the furniture is russian too.
Russia makes shoddy crap and sells us that shit at hiked prices.

Nah mate, but close. Demilled guns are super hard to remake into firing guns, have barrel holsed, welded pins etc.

These are AK-12 civillian "hunting" versions that saiga sells (or used to sell before that got banned) with all the same parts as the military one, on the same production line, with difference being in furniture and in semi only selector lever. They buy either as parts kit or as full gun, then build them by scavenging/ making to spec the parts used by russia in their guns.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Nah mate, but close. Demilled guns are super hard to remake into firing guns, have barrel holsed, welded pins etc.

Close to half of all foreign, non-sporting guns in US start their life as a demilled or destroyed gun.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Close to half of all foreign, non-sporting guns in US start their life as a demilled or destroyed gun.

Hmm. I used to think high end AK replicas were mostly Saiga conversions, my bad. will have to check what 9 hole reviews did for the specific rifle.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Cost is one of the reasons, main one is that the expensive ones are worse than the cheap ones. And if our SF need collapsing buttstock, they can get it aftermarket themselves, why get aftermarket for everyone. Fixed folding one good enough for regular troops. Apart from it, all other things are better in (Indian variant of) AK 203 than in AK 15.

No awkward sling mount, no poor folding mech, no plastic bending free floating handguard (here the handguard has metal frames and is fixed to barrel, so can take IR illuminator et cetera, for upgradability), no issue with losing zero, et al.

Cost was the reason we opted for it ... We chose Sig 716 DI for the same reason out of available option that qualified.

I didn't find anyone complaining with the buttstock there ....

The question was always At what price?

The other soldiers don't need Isn't true may be they can do without it but they'll definitely find it better to have.

The idea was to bring a standard arm that serves in the future too. They will be using them beyond 2040s.


1. What do you find awkward about the sling mount on Ak 12/15 ?

2. What issue about losing zero?

It is infact better adjusted and around 1.5 lakh plus rifles are issued with IP87 sights and were used in Syria. Iron sights are adjusted better too.

In anycase I was referring to balancing Aks as the reliability and ease of Aks is unmatched and if they can be more accurate with lower recoil than why not.

 

[Marliii]

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Cost was the reason we opted for it ... We chose Sig 716 DI for the same reason out of available option that qualified.

I didn't find anyone complaining with the buttstock there ....

The question was always At what price?

The other soldiers don't need Isn't true may be they can do without it but they'll definitely find it better to have.

The idea was to bring a standard arm that serves in the future too. They will be using them beyond 2040s.


1. What do you find awkward about the sling mount on Ak 12/15 ?

2. What issue about losing zero?

It is infact better adjusted and around 1.5 lakh plus rifles are issued with IP87 sights and were used in Syria. Iron sights are adjusted better too.

In anycase I was referring to balancing Aks as the reliability and ease of Aks is unmatched and if they can be more accurate with lower recoil than why not.

1) Sling mount on collapsing butstock is too low. When you go to grab the handle, gets in the way.

2) In regular AKs, dust cover is not "fixed". It is friction fit at one end, and loosely locked at other. Meaning, if you drop/smack/open the rifle your zero of your optic will shict slightly, more so with heavier optics. In AK 203, we have a dust cover which is pinned in place at one end and closed with a lever at the other, AK 12 are usual style.

 

[FalconSlayers]

What special purpose does the design serve when they already have Zion i.e. AR-15 platform?

 

[Lonewarrior]

What special purpose does the design serve when they already have Zion i.e. AR-15 platform?

IWI is trying to cover all the different market segments.

1. For broke countries like Africans, they have the Galil line-up; in case they want to upgrade from an AK based platform. And Zion, in case they want something bit better than a vanilla AR.

2. For semi-broke countries like us, they have this ARAD line-up. Competing with other short-stroke piston ARs like MK556 from Haenel and CAR816 from Caracal.

3. For spoilt brats countries, they have Carmel. With all the gimmicks like quick change barrel and ultra-high-pro ambidextrous controls it competes with high-end guns like ARX from Beretta and Bren 2 from CZ.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

IWI is trying to cover all the different market segments.

1. For broke countries like Africans, they have the Galil line-up; in case they want to upgrade from an AK based platform. And Zion, in case they want something bit better than a vanilla AR.

2. For semi-broke countries like us, they have this ARAD line-up. Competing with other short-stroke piston ARs like MK556 from Haenel and CAR816 from Caracal.

3. For spoilt brats countries, they have Carmel. With all the gimmicks like quick change barrel and ultra-high-pro ambidextrous controls it competes with high-end guns like ARX from Beretta and Bren 2 from CZ.

Regarding point 1, IWI Zion is sold only by IWI US for their civilian market, are you sure it’s on offer to other countries Armed Forces or LE?

 

[Lonewarrior]

Regarding point 1, IWI Zion is sold only by IWI US for their civilian market, are you sure it’s on offer to other countries Armed Forces or LE?

Relate that to the very peculiar case of SIG Sauer "inventing" 716i just for us.

If someone demands, then they just need to add a three position selector on Zion and it'll be good to go.

 

[ALBY]

It would be nice if we bought Aks in such state and customise according to the needs rather than buy a vanilla rifle for huge amount then customising it with lot of other things

 

[ezsasa]

View attachment 153241
It would be nice if we bought Aks in such state and customise according to the needs rather than buy a vanilla rifle for huge amount then customising it with lot of other things

when different components come from different factories, it would be difficult for end user to find the right combination for a perfect fit even for an AK which is known for high tolerances. tolerence guages from different factories may not be in sync. half a millimetre here and there make a lot of difference in a rifle.

by the time trial and error to find the right combination by the front line unit is completed, commanders might get impatient and scrap the weapon system itself.

it's better to eliminate as many quality issues on factory floor itself, especially for small arms.

 

[ALBY]

when different components come from different factories, it would be difficult for end user to find the right combination for a perfect fit even for an AK which is known for high tolerances. tolerence guages from different factories may not be in sync. half a millimetre here and there make a lot of difference in a rifle.

by the time trial and error to find the right combination by the front line unit is completed, commanders might get impatient and scrap the weapon system itself.

it's better to eliminate as many quality issues on factory floor itself, especially for small arms.

Before buying the weapon we should do tge trials of various accessories on the weapon based on tge need of different forces.. Ie needs of SF, RR, Ghatak and regular infantry and support arms may be different.. If we finalise which accessories are going to be used and order tge required numbers before the weapon is brought we could save considerable amount of money