Small arms and Light Weapons

[Whitecollar]

It is a Darra made M4

Yeah but that's not the point. Jihadis may have found a full proof solution to track our force's realtime position by having atleast 1 thermal scope. They usually take up higher floors for firefight and a thermal sight for top down recce seems to be a dangerous idea...these jihadis might be feeding IA's tactics to their walid jaans in Pak too...

 

[SGOperative]

Yeah but that's not the point. Jihadis may have found a full proof solution to track our force's realtime position by having atleast 1 thermal scope. They usually take up higher floors for firefight and a thermal sight for top down recce seems to be a dangerous idea...these jihadis might be feeding IA's tactics to their walid jaans in Pak too...

Well the jokes on them cause all they are getting is a carl gustaf round through the window /s

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

The move to cancel the repeat order of 72k rifles with Sig sauer may indicate 2 possible scenarios:

1. Indegeneous 7.62*51 mm assault rifle (R2/MCIWS/ARDE carbine variant/P-72) order may be given. And this category has really been moved to import negative list.

2. Sig sauer is demanding more money for second batch compared to the first batch. And Sig is unwilling to set up any factory or JV with Indian pvt sector companies citing US ITAR regulations. So cancelling the second order may be a negotiating tactic by MOD to bring Sig Sauer back to the table

 

[SGOperative]

The move to cancel the repeat order of 72k rifles with Sig sauer may indicate 2 possible scenarios:

1. Indegeneous 7.62*51 mm assault rifle (R2/MCIWS/ARDE carbine variant/P-72) order may be given. And this category has really been moved to import negative list.

2. Sig sauer is demanding more money for second batch compared to the first batch. And Sig is unwilling to set up any factory or JV with Indian pvt sector companies citing US ITAR regulations. So cancelling the second order may be a negotiating tactic by MOD to bring Sig Sauer back to the table

I hope its the second one

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Waiting for the day when Negev is standard issue lmg made in Indian factories. And somebody give that thing a foregrip.
Though I am not really sure if Sig sauer will set up a factory in india with an Indian partner citing various crap US reasons like they are setting it up for F35, its just an AR rifle.
One thing is clear Sig sauer as standard issue for infantry battalions be better forget if no local production. Now where beside US you can get a AR like platform- Germany, well better luck after a millennia cos they are the most two faced people in defence industry often virtue signalling.
This leaves IA with two choices, either adopt a platform which is Indian owned. The second one is that you might have to look at non western manufacturers to setup their factory here.
For the uninformed, aks are for non infantry branches and non conventional role troops, IA is huge, check the number IA will get, makes perfect sense so don't tell me AK are for infantry as well, having two different ammo types for lmg and rifle is plainly stupid and i hope you don't think IA is that stupid, atleast I hope so. About carbines, can somebody tell what people are exactly supposed to get it, 3 lakh is pretty huge number, telling me vehicle crews and officers are supposed to get it doesn't quite cut the numbers straight and anyway does our armoured vehicles even have the space to stow them, pointing at tiny crew spaces in tincans and bmps.

 

[vampyrbladez]

The move to cancel the repeat order of 72k rifles with Sig sauer may indicate 2 possible scenarios:

1. Indegeneous 7.62*51 mm assault rifle (R2/MCIWS/ARDE carbine variant/P-72) order may be given. And this category has really been moved to import negative list.

2. Sig sauer is demanding more money for second batch compared to the first batch. And Sig is unwilling to set up any factory or JV with Indian pvt sector companies citing US ITAR regulations. So cancelling the second order may be a negotiating tactic by MOD to bring Sig Sauer back to the table

I agree with the latter point regarding the second batch of Sig Sauer 716i rifles costing more and claiming US ITAR regulations against an actual JV with an Indian Company like Kalyan Defense, PLR Systems, MKU and SSS Defense. MoD may be trying to get a better price on the guns.


India yet to negotiate US-made Sig Sauer rifle deal cost

https://newsable.asianetnews.com/in...-us-made-sig-sauer-rifle-deal-cost-dnm-qzdop6


Additionally around the time the second order was confirmed, the Russians had not yet sealed the AK 203 deal and were unhappy with the news. Later on the price was negotiated to more favorable rates with more ToT thrown in and the deal was signed.


Russian gun maker Kalashnikov unhappy with India's choice to buy American Sig Sauer guns

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Army to place order for 72,000 more Sig716 assault rifles from US

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...716-assault-rifles-from-us-1699762-2020-07-12

India signs AK-203 assault rifle deal with Russia worth Rs 5,124 crore

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...dia-russia-finalised/articleshow/88118637.cms


However assuming the worst comes to pass, we do have some choices with regard to a 7.62x51 mm rifle as presented below :

1) CAR 817 - MKU (Caracal)

https://caracal.ae/product/car-817-ar

2) TAVOR 7 - PLR Systems (IWI)

https://iwi.net/iwi-tavor-rifle/tavor-7/

3) PLR RECR - SSS Defense (MDT Defense)

https://www.sssdefence.com/products/products_category/small_arms.php


4) R2 RIFLE (ARDE / OFB)

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...on-at-a-cheaper-rate/articleshow/68022749.cms

What do you guys think ?

 

[Marliii]

Most likely sig would get the repeat orders.if somehow the deal goes off then army most likely would go for an 7.62x51 rifle 2.0 competition with most indian vendors and OFB r2 beating them in competiton is like pakistan adopting scar h as main rifle

 

[Marliii]

Most likely sig would get the repeat orders.if somehow the deal goes off then army most likely would go for an 7.62x51 rifle 2.0 competition with most indian vendors and OFB r2 beating them in competiton is like pakistan adopting scar h as main rifle

Only way for idiotic late OFB to win is if army tries to be kanjooz and select R2 then be in OFB's mercy.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Only way for idiotic late OFB to win is if army tries to be kanjooz and select R2 then be in OFB's mercy.

Don't underestimate the OFB. Their R2 rifle may not beat others in fair competition, but the OFB guys do have a massive influence in the MOD to ensure the deal goes in their favor.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

I agree with the latter point regarding the second batch of Sig Sauer 716i rifles costing more and claiming US ITAR regulations against an actual JV with an Indian Company like Kalyan Defense, PLR Systems, MKU and SSS Defense. MoD may be trying to get a better price on the guns.


India yet to negotiate US-made Sig Sauer rifle deal cost

https://newsable.asianetnews.com/in...-us-made-sig-sauer-rifle-deal-cost-dnm-qzdop6


Additionally around the time the second order was confirmed, the Russians had not yet sealed the AK 203 deal and were unhappy with the news. Later on the price was negotiated to more favorable rates with more ToT thrown in and the deal was signed.


Russian gun maker Kalashnikov unhappy with India's choice to buy American Sig Sauer guns

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Army to place order for 72,000 more Sig716 assault rifles from US

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...716-assault-rifles-from-us-1699762-2020-07-12

India signs AK-203 assault rifle deal with Russia worth Rs 5,124 crore

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...dia-russia-finalised/articleshow/88118637.cms


However assuming the worst comes to pass, we do have some choices with regard to a 7.62x51 mm rifle as presented below :

1) CAR 817 - MKU (Caracal)

https://caracal.ae/product/car-817-ar

2) TAVOR 7 - PLR Systems (IWI)

https://iwi.net/iwi-tavor-rifle/tavor-7/

3) PLR RECR - SSS Defense (MDT Defense)

https://www.sssdefence.com/products/products_category/small_arms.php


4) R2 RIFLE (ARDE / OFB)

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...on-at-a-cheaper-rate/articleshow/68022749.cms

What do you guys think ?

Just add 7.62*51 mm versions of MCIWS and ARDE (Sig 550 style) carbine

 

[Marliii]

Don't underestimate the OFB. Their R2 rifle may not beat others in fair competition, but the OFB guys do have a massive influence in the MOD to ensure the deal goes in their favor.

But now thats now rapidly diminishing .army doesn't even want OFB to make the new uniform so army knows thay the best way to make OFB loose is by getting them into competition that they cannot win

 

[Lonewarrior]

What do you guys think ?

1. OFB offering R2. [IDDM]

2. PLR offering Tavor 7. [IWI, Israel]

3. PLR offering Galil. [IWI, Israel] (L1 compared to Tavor 7)

4. MKU offering CAR 817. [Caracal, UAE]

5. ShShSh Defence offering P-72. [IDDM, allegedly]

6. CMTPL offering BREN 2 BR. [CZ, Czech]

7. Jindal Defence offering AR-10. [Taurus, Brazil]

8. Malhotrasons offering AR-10. [IDDM, lol]

9. ASTR offering Indra. [IDDM, allegedly]

10. Wery Win Defence offering LM308. [LMT, USA]

 

[MisraZ]

I've a bad feeling about this one. In all probability there will be no purchases at all.

Deja vu of INSAS replacement in last decade

 

[SGOperative]

I've a bad feeling about this one. In all probability there will be no purchases at all.

Deja vu of INSAS replacement in last decade

The Army should just use its remaining fund in equipping the infantry lol

 

[Whitecollar]

1. OFB offering R2. [IDDM]

2. PLR offering Tavor 7. [IWI, Israel]

3. PLR offering Galil. [IWI, Israel] (L1 compared to Tavor 7)

4. MKU offering CAR 817. [Caracal, UAE]

5. ShShSh Defence offering P-72. [IDDM, allegedly]

6. CMTPL offering BREN 2 BR. [CZ, Czech]

7. Jindal Defence offering AR-10. [Taurus, Brazil]

8. Malhotrasons offering AR-10. [IDDM, lol]

9. ASTR offering Indra. [IDDM, allegedly]

10. Wery Win Defence offering LM308. [LMT, USA]

What do you think of the recoil, mate?
And yeah...after Sig 716, anything bullpupish 7.62 NATO like Tar 7 won't be accepted by IA as it changes the complete training and usage philosophy...

 

[MisraZ]

This was initial QR for Assault rifle purchase

 

[SGOperative]

This was initial QR for Assault rifle purchase

Its for CAPFs

 

[MisraZ]

This was a CAPF qr for carbines. Check the adverse condition testing requirements.

If this is a duplicate post I'll request mods to delete.

 

[Whitecollar]

This was initial QR for Assault rifle purchase

"Mat" finish...and so many personnel accepted it without proofreading

 

[Aditya Ballal]

I agree with the latter point regarding the second batch of Sig Sauer 716i rifles costing more and claiming US ITAR regulations against an actual JV with an Indian Company like Kalyan Defense, PLR Systems, MKU and SSS Defense. MoD may be trying to get a better price on the guns.


India yet to negotiate US-made Sig Sauer rifle deal cost

https://newsable.asianetnews.com/in...-us-made-sig-sauer-rifle-deal-cost-dnm-qzdop6


Additionally around the time the second order was confirmed, the Russians had not yet sealed the AK 203 deal and were unhappy with the news. Later on the price was negotiated to more favorable rates with more ToT thrown in and the deal was signed.


Russian gun maker Kalashnikov unhappy with India's choice to buy American Sig Sauer guns

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Army to place order for 72,000 more Sig716 assault rifles from US

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...716-assault-rifles-from-us-1699762-2020-07-12

India signs AK-203 assault rifle deal with Russia worth Rs 5,124 crore

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...dia-russia-finalised/articleshow/88118637.cms


However assuming the worst comes to pass, we do have some choices with regard to a 7.62x51 mm rifle as presented below :

1) CAR 817 - MKU (Caracal)

https://caracal.ae/product/car-817-ar

2) TAVOR 7 - PLR Systems (IWI)

https://iwi.net/iwi-tavor-rifle/tavor-7/

3) PLR RECR - SSS Defense (MDT Defense)

https://www.sssdefence.com/products/products_category/small_arms.php


4) R2 RIFLE (ARDE / OFB)

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...on-at-a-cheaper-rate/articleshow/68022749.cms

What do you guys think ?

Galil Ace 7.62x51 variant with SR-25 pattern mags to keep commonality with the SIG-716.