Small arms and Light Weapons

[Whitecollar]

even GIGN adopted CZ Bren in 7.62 because of the stopping power the round provides.

Why did Russia(the inventor) discontinue 7.62x39 as standard cartridge?? And China also(2nd to Russia)??

 

[SGOperative]

Why did Russia(the inventor) discontinue 7.62x39 as standard cartridge?? And China also(2nd to Russia)??

Engagement range possibly and why do you think US is trying to switch to 6.8 after which NATO will follow, rounds have their pros and cons and you choose what works best for you

 

[Whitecollar]

Engagement range possibly and why do you think US is trying to switch to 6.8 after which NATO will follow, rounds have their pros and cons and you choose what works best for you

Exactly so why choose 7.62 when 6.8 and 6.5 creedmoor exist? That too for such a large Army and probably making them use it for 30 years from now?? Aren't we circling around the same roundabout?? These discussions are neverending.
Will the Gernails sitting in big mansions who made decision to go for 7.62x39 go and fire bullets at battlefield themselves? This is the real question...not having far sightedness and disregarding already available limitation studies of 7.62x39mm.

 

[SGOperative]

Exactly so why choose 7.62 when 6.8 and 6.5 creedmoor exist? That too for such a large Army and probably making them use it for 30 years from now?? Aren't we circling around the same roundabout?? These discussions are neverending.
Will the Gernails sitting in big mansions who made decision to go for 7.62x39 go and fire bullets at battlefield themselves? This is the real question...not having far sightedness and disregarding already available limitation studies of 7.62x39mm.

The range at which our engagement will occur .39 and 51 will suffice mostly and we have millions of those ammos already made.

 

[Marliii]

The range at which our engagement will occur .39 and 51 will suffice mostly and we have millions of those ammos already made.

GIGN going for 7.62 is not all about stopping power its mostly because 7.62x39 has more efficiency in shorter barrels.5.56 is the original poison bullet even before the 5.45

 

[SGOperative]

GIGN going for 7.62 is not all about stopping power its mostly because 7.62x39 has more efficiency in shorter barrels.5.56 is the original poison bullet even before the 5.45

Thats a part of it along with it but adopting a new bullet wont be so easy when you have millions of them already made in a specific caliber and again at the range which our engagements will be taking place the .39 and .51 will be more than enough and 5.56 is so godly why is US going for a intermediate cartridge

 

[SGOperative]

POF has a AR Series gun Fk my life and its 7.62

 

[MisraZ]

POF has a AR Series gun Fk my life and its 7.62

Ha 2019 ko dikhaya tha . Pk18. Pk21 was ak clone

 

[Whitecollar]

POF has a AR Series gun Fk my life and its 7.62

Then you should check Darra made bolt action AK. Anyways they copied the AK 103 and named PK 21. Then they copied the Sig 716(AR10) and named PK 18.

 

[SGOperative]

Then you should check Darra made bolt action AK. Anyways they copied the AK 103 and named PK 21. Then they copied the Sig 716(AR10) and named PK 18.

Yeah but they came up with another new gun called DW something looks like a G3 but in AR style

 

[Whitecollar]

Yeah but they came up with another new gun called DW something looks like a G3 but in AR style

Couldn't find any such thing on the net. Care to attach a pic?

 

[SGOperative]

 

[Aditya Ballal]

If OFB can use Steyr manufactured Cold Hammer Forging machines and that too from quite a long time; then I think you're being bit ignorant about the capital and acquisition capabilities of OFB.

It seems you're hell bent on knowing the name; it's Haas.
Most of the high precision parts are not made inhouse by OFB; they are outsourced. And in India Haas is the most common brand of CNC used.

Even PLR uses Haas CNC machines, it’s the top of the line in terms on CNC machines and is the industry leader in the West for precision CNC machines.(Sad that their F1 team is struggling)

 

[Johny_Baba]

Hhmm G-3 derivative with a lower receiver that accepts SR-25 pattern 7.62 NATO magazines ? also with a new trigger group i guess ?

This would give them option to standardise magazines IN CASE they are adopting that PK-21 rifle = 7.62 NATO AR; (or any such rifle accepting that magazine in general), probably they will offer a retrospective upgrade for existing G-3s with new lower kit {and small fastened picatiny rail on upper receiver, picatiny railed handguards etc} and so, in that way it seems like interim weapon...

 

[rone]

Hhmm G-3 derivative with a lower receiver that accepts SR-25 pattern 7.62 NATO magazines ? also with a new trigger group i guess ?

This would give them option to standardise magazines IN CASE they are adopting that PK-21 rifle = 7.62 NATO AR; (or any such rifle accepting that magazine in general), probably they will offer a retrospective upgrade for existing G-3s with new lower kit {and small fastened picatiny rail on upper receiver, picatiny railed handguards etc} and so, in that way it seems like interim weapon...

look decent one considering g3 a time tested weapon

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Well, Pakis making better guns than us, period.
Atleast they copy, innovate, add new things which is much better than leaving your own gun Trichy ar for ruski ak103 LiCenSe MaNUfaCTure.
They already have g3 which is already a great 7.62 nato rifle, maybe we could have wised up and made something like DSA FAL rifle which are modern versions of a already good rifle.
Currently we have not a single good firm who can be called a good firearm manufacturer.
To our IA guys, yeah good luck expecting good license manufacture ak 103 that too from the almighty OFB.
Change my mind??

 

[SGOperative]

Well, Pakis making better guns than us, period.
Atleast they copy, innovate, add new things which is much better than leaving your own gun Trichy ar for ruski ak103 LiCenSe MaNUfaCTure.
They already have g3 which is already a great 7.62 nato rifle, maybe we could have wised up and made something like DSA FAL rifle which are modern versions of a already good rifle.
Currently we have not a single good firm who can be called a good firearm manufacturer.
To our IA guys, yeah good luck expecting good license manufacture ak 103 that too from the almighty OFB.
Change my mind??

That gun is AK203 and OFB made decent quality copies of Arsenal and what Paki's did is still to see and their quality control too.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

That gun is AK203 and OFB made decent quality copies of Arsenal and what Paki's did is still to see and their quality control too.

Well maybe not as decent enough as ak 103 according to IA, that's why the need to get the superior Russian ak and well less be said about the ofb quality control. Will call that as ak 103, clearly doesn't even have a retractable stock in the ak we are getting, some cost cutting measures, yeah better compare this product to cost of m4 which the US army is getting.

 

[SGOperative]

Well maybe not as decent enough as ak 103 according to IA, that's why the need to get the superior Russian ak and well less be said about the ofb quality control. Will call that as ak 103, clearly doesn't even have a retractable stock in the ak we are getting, some cost cutting measures, yeah better compare this product to cost of m4 which the US army is getting.

Except buttstock everything is same why not call AK103 a AK47 then and quality control they made decent arsenal copies

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Except buttstock everything is same why not call AK103 a AK47 then and quality control they made decent arsenal copies

Please God, not being disrespectful but just stop defending the indefensible. The prototype showed had just rails and flash hider, well not even rails on 12'0 clock on handguard, no clip-on ti or night sights needed?? Why call Ak then just call it stg44, well you exactly know this is just ak103+ at best. This whole deal is just not logical by any sense considering that the gun will be in service for next 30yrs or more. Perhaps Ak 15 would have made more sense, we are already paying 1000-1100$, US Army pays like 650-800$ for m4a1.
Please just stop justifying being milked by ruskies and the bad decision that has been taken.
If you can logically explain as to these:-
1. Why Ak103+
2. Why guns to be made by OFB, not really have good record, do they??
3. Why ak103+ when it costs as much as sig716i, I thought price was the contention, no???

This deal was obviously a political one.