Small arms and Light Weapons

When picking a gun, what would your primary consideration be?


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Kunal Biswas

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why is it against drum feed....it can fire more rounds than any other mag right...??
The ideology is when charging the LMG must be light enough to fire on move, Mag feed make the weapon lighter, Also when carrying the ammo can be easily distributed among other troops..

While in Kargil we felt the need for a Machine gun which can provide suppressive fire..

30rnd mag proved to be insufficient, RR use PKM with Bren, But mostly PKM are in use..

Most countries now using LMG which are belt feed, Also some also feature both feed..

IA need a LMG which can have Mag also Belt..
 

ALBY

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The ideology is when charging the LMG must be light enough to fire on move, Mag feed make the weapon lighter, Also when carrying the ammo can be easily distributed among other troops..

While in Kargil we felt the need for a Machine gun which can provide suppressive fire..

30rnd mag proved to be insufficient, RR use PKM with Bren, But mostly PKM are in use..

Most countries now using LMG which are belt feed, Also some also feature both feed..

IA need a LMG which can have Mag also Belt..
Every one knows the importance of balt fed MG except IA top brass.is to possible to alter the existing insas lmg to accept both mag and drums?just like RPKs and m249s.
 

sayareakd

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Alby, IA is trying to save bullets, because of one bullet one enemy policy, with INSAS with three bust shooting mode, it changes slightly, IA dont want to have 10 bullets per target. As it cause more strain on supply of ammo. Yeah we need both feed LMG, BTW OFB is making MMG with balt feed.

Wont be bad idea to have drum feed for INSAS LMG for special forces or even for regular soldiers.
 

ALBY

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Alby, IA is trying to save bullets, because of one bullet one enemy policy, with INSAS with three bust shooting mode, it changes slightly, IA dont want to have 10 bullets per target. As it cause more strain on supply of ammo. Yeah we need both feed LMG, BTW OFB is making MMG with balt feed.

Wont be bad idea to have drum feed for INSAS LMG for special forces or even for regular soldiers.
We just need drum mags which could be compatable for insas lmg like the ones posted by pmaitra.ofb could make that.plus the belt fed MMG made by ofb comes with a tripood and with out butt.they are limiting mobility and are suitedonly in vehicles and bunkers and they are no match for PKMs coz they are heavier .
 

pmaitra

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The ideology is when charging the LMG must be light enough to fire on move, Mag feed make the weapon lighter, Also when carrying the ammo can be easily distributed among other troops..
Kunal, I beg to differ with that justification of weight. A machine gun is supposed to be a machine gun, not an assault rifle. It should be able to:
  • Fire at high rate of fire.
  • Have a large number of rounds at disposal requiring less frequent magazine change.
  • Should not overheat and hence should be made of heavier material which will inevitably make the weapon heavy.
Not all drum magazines are that heavy and you can see that in the videos I posted. The only plausible reason I can think of is saving bullets.


We just need drum mags which could be compatable for insas lmg like the ones posted by pmaitra.ofb could make that.plus the belt fed MMG made by ofb comes with a tripood and with out butt.they are limiting mobility and are suitedonly in vehicles and bunkers and they are no match for PKMs coz they are heavier .
Alby, yes, we need drum magazines or anything that does not require the machine-gunner to change the magazine frequently. That 30 round magazine for the INSAS LMG does not have any more capacity than a regular AK-47. I wonder how it helps to have to change magazines after every 30 5.56mm bullets. At least the Bren Clone LMG with its 7.62mm bullets has more stopping power.

Drums are also easy to load and unload and not substantially heavy. I'd go with it any day, but then that's me.
 

hitesh

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insas rifle with drum magazine is a joke in itself . have a close look at the barrel thickness & quality reveals every thing . no full auto ,what the use of
drum ?. even Insas lmg has nothing to be called a Light Machine Gun ,a 30 round magazine & full auto wont make it a lmg .its a damn obsolete assult rifle + heavy weight ..(6.7kg) even old soviet RPK machine gun with big caliber bullets weights <5kg.

 
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Kunal Biswas

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have a close look at the barrel thickness & quality reveals every thing . no full auto

even Insas lmg has nothing to be called a Light Machine Gun ,a 30 round magazine & full auto wont make it a lmg

.its a damn obsolete assult rifle + heavy weight ..(6.7kg)



If you fire 30-40rnd full auto from Insas / Tar-21 / M4 barrel will become red hot and will bend..
The Insas LMG barrel is heavy and can sustain high rate of fire, RPK weights more with Ammo..

When does Insas become obsolete ?, Coz it lack simple P-rail and a modern Butt, What abt AK-47, Fav of world wide SOGs and Special forces, Don`t fall for Media advertisements, On practical basis the no fancy equipment works..
 
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sayareakd

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Trijicon make some of the best sights out there, i think we need to rope them in and produce many of their sights under licence

Lots of battery free sights, incluing ACOG sights, reflex scopes

1x42 - Trijicon, Inc.

Trijicon ACOG�

Trijicon RMR�

Trijicon ATWS�

Trijicon is also willing to sell its product to our armed forces but problem is even if bulk order their cost starts from 500 USD, which is cost of INSAS rifle. ACOG is most costly of them, plus biggest problem is INSAS rail, as told by Trigicon guy, they are working on fitting its sight on INSAS rail.
 

sayareakd

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If you fire 30-40rnd full auto from Insas / Tar-21 / M4 barrel will become red hot and will bend..
The Insas LMG barrel is heavy and can sustain high rate of fire, RPK weights more with Ammo..

When does Insas become obsolete ?, Coz it lack simple P-rail and a modern Butt, What abt AK-47, Fav of world wide SOGs and Special forces, Don`t fall for Media advertisements, On practical basis the no fancy equipment works..
P Rail can be added as so is modern butt but it will cost money for those modifications, same can be done on AK.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Cost Money for sure sir, But how much if OFB develop these..

From Individual pocket And permission from MOD one can update his rifle with some condition too, And their money dont matter much..
 

hitesh

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7.62 MM SOVIET pkm
 
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hitesh

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Caliber
7,62x51 NATO
Length
1165 mm
Barrel length
550 mm
Weight
10,8 kg
Rate of fire
n/a
Feed
belt

AEK-999 "Barsuk" (Badger) general purpose machine gun was developed during early 1990s as a product improvement program for Kalashnikov PKM machine gun, to improve its capabilities in 'light machine gun / squad automatic weapon' role. The goal of the development was to produce a modified version of PKM, capable of sustained firepower without recourse to quick-change barrels and better suitable for use by foot soldiers, when fired from the hip ('assault style') or from integral bipod. The AEK-999 was developed at the Kovrov Machinebuilding Plant (KMZ), but lost in military trials to the "Petcheneg" machine gun, which was developed under same requirements at the TSNII TochMash research institute. Small batches of AEK-999 machine guns were manufactured by KMZ before 2006 for Russian Internal Affairs Ministry (MVD) troops. In 2006 KMZ has ceased all military production, and AEK-999 is no longer manufactured, although some guns are still in use by Russian MVD troops.
The AEK-999 machine gun is based on Kalashnikov PKM machine gun, using same receiver group. Most important changes include new barrel, made of special steel, also used in manufacture of aircraft cannon barrels. This new barrel is partially fluted to save weight and improve heat dissipation, and is provided with mirage top cover and more effective muzzle brake / flash hider. This new barrel can be removed from the gun for inspection or maintenance, but in the combat AEK-999 is not provided with spare barrel. To further enhance weapon capabilities, AEK-999 is fitted with small polymer forend under the barrel, and folding bipod is moved forward and attached to the barrel rather than gas tube. If necessary, AEK-999 can be equipped with tactical sound moderator (silencer). It also can accept all standard PKM accessories, including tripod mount, and 100-round clip-on belt boxes.
 

hitesh

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Caliber: 7.62x54mm R
Weight: 8.7 kg on bipod; 12.7 kg on infantry tripodmount
Length: 1155 mm
Length of barrel: 658 mm
Feeding: belt, 100 or 200 rounds
Rate of fire: 650 rounds/min

The Pecheneg (Pecheneg is an ancient aggressive tribe who lived in what later became Russia; also its name is sometimes transcribed as Petcheneg)light machine gun was born from experience of Afghanistan and recent local conflicts, especially the continuous fight with insurgents and terrorists in Chechnya. Basically, Pecheneg is a standard 7.62x54R PKM machine gun without the rapid barrel-change option, and intended foruse from an integral bipod as a squad support weapon. It can provide much more sustained firepower than the standard-issue RPK-74,and the 7.62x54R cartridge offers a longer effective range (a rather useful feature in mountainous Chechnya), and, no less important,better penetration of light structures and improvised covers used by insurgents in urban and forest environments. Currently Pecheneg is being issued to certain Russian Army and Internal Affairs ministry Spetsnaz units operating in Chechnya.
The "Pecheneg" LMG can be considered as a modification of the PKM machine gun, but it is built for only one tactical role; that is, as atrue squad-level light machine gun for mobile infantry and Spetsnaz troops. Its key difference from the parent design is the barrel, which is not intended to be replaced in the field (although it can be removed for inspection and maintenance). The barrel is somewhat heavier than that of the PKM, and has radial cooling ribs. This is enclosed in a steel jacket, which runs up to the muzzle to provide forced air cooling a-la Lewis machine gun of WW1 era. Cooling air enters the jacket through oval windows at the rear of the jacket, and exits at the muzzle. Early versions of the Pecheneg had standard PKM-type flashhider, which resulted in a significant muzzle blast once the gun is warmed up; current production guns have a special flash hider that eliminates this problem. At the rear of the jacket there is a carrying handle permanently attached to it. This handle has a characteristic elongated profile, as it is also intended to protect the line of sight from mirages generated by the hot barrel. The manufacturer claims that the Pecheneg can fire 600 rounds in continuous sustained fire without any danger to the barrel.
Another change from the parent design is the location of the integral, non-removable folding bipod which is placed near the muzzle. This feature is said to improve stability and long-range accuracy when firing from the bipod; but it also limits the arc of fire available without moving the position of bipod or shooter.Another consequence of such placement is that the Petcheneg is less comfortable to fire from the shoulder or the hip, as it does not have ahandguard and the bipod is located too far forward to be used to hold the gun. However, the Petcheneg has sling swivels and can be fired from the hip using a sling and carrying handle to hold the gun.
In all other respects (action, feed, sights, stock) the Pecheneg is similar to modern PKM machine guns. It also retains the standard PKM mounting interface and therefore can be used from the same tripod, but it is always issued as an light machine gun (without tripod mount).
 

asianobserve

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Suppressive fire, anyone?










Inspired by 'Predator' Film, Troops Turn Backpack Into Massive Ammo Clip

Published on October 17, 2011, by joshuaphilipp - Posted in Military Tech, War Room

Inspiration comes at interesting moments, and for a group of soldiers in Afghanistan, this one came during a two-and-a-half-hour firefight with the Taliban.

After the smoke cleared, the soldiers were talking about what a hassle it was having to use three men to load and use the new Mk 48 light machine gun. "The ammunition sacks that came with it made it too cumbersome and heavy to carry over long, dismounted patrols and especially when climbing mountains. Initially, we came up with using 50-round belts and just reloading constantly, which led to lulls of fire and inefficiency," Winkowski said, according to the U.S. Army news website.

One of them mentioned Jesse Ventura from the "Predator" film, who used an M-134 Mini-gun that was fed by an ammo box he wore on his back.

After a short laugh, one soldier, Staff Sgt. Vincent Winkowski realized that making a backpack that could feed a machine gun wouldn't be that far-fetched. So he welded two ammunitions cans together, grabbed an old ALICE (all-purpose lightweight individual carrying equipment), and combined it with a MOLLE (modular, lightweight load-carrying equipment) pouch. The result was a backpack capable of both carrying and feeding ammo to the gun without burning its carrier or getting jammed.

"We wondered why there wasn't some type of dismounted (Common Remote Operating Weapons Station) that fed our machine guns instead of a mini-gun as portrayed in the movie," Winkowski said. "So, I decided to try it using the feed chute assembly off of the vehicle CROWS. We glued a piece of wood from an ammo crate inside the ammo cans to create the decreased space necessary so the rounds would not fall in on each other.

Initial tests showed it still had some flaws, but "it was much better than the current TTP (tactics, techniques and procedures) we employed," Winkowski said.

Then, on Feb. 26, 2011, their new "Ironman" pack was given its real test. The squad was ambushed by close to 50 enemy fighters in a river valley, "and it worked great!" Winkowski said. The Army doesn't give much detail here, but it sounds like 50 fighters were greeted by an Ironman backpack feeding a light machine gun as it blew copious amounts of doom in their general directions.

The team reported their new gadget in the combat report, which drew the interest of forward-deployed science advisers from the U.S. Army Research, Development and Engineering Command.

"We looked at it," recalled Dave Roy, of the research center. "My first reaction was, 'Wow, that's cool.'"

Roy and his team modified the massive ammo clip-turned-backpack, and 48 days later, they had a new prototype, and put the "High-Capacity Ammunition Carriage System" back in theater.

The troops who built it, from the 1st Battalion, 133rd Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 34th Infantry Division, Iowa National Guard, are called "Task Force Ironman," and Roy named the machine the "Ironman."

"We pretty much took their design and just reverse-engineered it and improved upon it," said Laura Winters, who headed up the fabrication effort, according to the Army news website.

Roy adds, "We've already gotten email traffic from (one of) our science advisers that everybody in theater wants one of these."

"To allow the gunner himself to be able to have this kind of firepower increases his lethality," Roy said. "By increasing his lethality, you've also increased his survivability by a certain amount. Now that gunner has 500 rounds of ammunition. It's very difficult for me to make him ineffective."

 
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ALBY

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That`s not going to work In IA..
All the new technologies except i phone will reach indian shore only after minimum 25 years..so dont expect our men with these types of fancy toys any soon...
 

bhramos

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All the new technologies except i phone will reach indian shore only after minimum 25 years..so dont expect our men with these types of fancy toys any soon...
but this was not a problem with Russian and Israeli systems i hope......
 

SPIEZ

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All the new technologies except i phone will reach indian shore only after minimum 25 years..so dont expect our men with these types of fancy toys any soon...
Buddy where are you????
Today everyone has either an iPhone or an Android phone.

Come to chennai, you can see some auto-wallas with an iPhone.

@Pmaitra:Gr8 work, appreciation to your keen eye
 
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