Small arms and Light Weapons

[Lonewarrior]

Apparently this one will cost 5 lakhs (with tax), as per chatter on forums.

LMAO

What are chances that they are completely outsourcing these to some Brazilian-Candian firm and just adding their name?
Cause Republic of India feels bit weird

 

[FalconZero]

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My conversation with SSS Defence’s CEO, about the use of off the shelf parts of foreign OEMs, after seeing the piecemeal order they’ve received for 24 pieces, I do get why they’re doing what they’re doing, and I hope they do follow up on their statement of integrating their own stuff when they do get significant orders. Only time will tell if they actually deliver upon it.

Honestly his logic is sound and practical. It's great that they are getting a chance, once they get any sustainable order they can scale the production of parts and probably manufacture those which they are importing for now.

Seems fair to me at least.

I will take 35% indigenous with slowly evolving capability vs 0% indigenisation and no improvement in any capability just mental mastrubation about muh atmanirbharta.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[MisraZ]

CZ Colt Canada MRR:

MRR - Colt Canada

MODULAR RAIL RIFLE The MRR combines the battle proven Colt Canada C8 Carbine core with the M-LOK™ Rail Attachment System. The MRR Upper Receiver has a monolithic top rail with side and bottom rail positions now implementing the Magpul M-LOK™ modular locking accessory mounting system. The sturdy...

www.coltcanada.com

 

[Lonewarrior]

Glad they pointed which part is the handguard

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Glad they pointed which part is the handguard

Two step forward with single piece receiver and less weight(9.2 kg) than m240l(10.1 kg) but one step backward in ergonomics with old school buttstock and less be said about handguard, just copy the damn Negev ng7 ergonomic template which is already selected by IA but no ARDE has to go it's own way. But good gun except MOduLarItY.

 

[The Shrike]

19x9 and .38 special or .38 S&W are PB for handguns

What's the logic in allowing .45 and keeping the rest in PB?

 

[Lonewarrior]

Two step forward with single piece receiver and less weight(9.2 kg) than m240l(10.1 kg) but one step backward in ergonomics with old school buttstock and less be said about handguard, just copy the damn Negev ng7 ergonomic template which is already selected by IA but no ARDE has to go it's own way. But good gun except MOduLarItY.

And what about the fact that it ejects from bottom!?
You can't add a high capacity ammo pouch like Negev or Maximi or even PKM.

And that full length top cover?
Where you lose your zero each time you reload.

And the fact that there is no safety in the charging handle.
You can easily get a runaway bolt while charging.

And is there semi auto mode for zeroing the barrels?

 

[MisraZ]

And what about the fact that it ejects from bottom!?
You can't add a high capacity ammo pouch like Negev or Maximi or even PKM.

There was a video from Sandeep Unnithan where he said that they're developing a 200 round pouch and a new buttstock. Most probably M240 style solution will be adapted i.e. pouch belt on the side of MG (RIP ergonomics) or else they can insert a chute to the side for ejecting spent cases and carve a pouch holding well on the bottom.

And that full length top cover?
Where you lose your zero each time you reload.

And the fact that there is no safety in the charging handle.

You can easily get a runaway bolt while charging.

True. These problems will persist. They will use the semi auto mode for zeroing I guess. They should work on these shortcomings actually.

And is there semi auto mode for zeroing the barrels?

It has a semi auto mode of fire.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

And what about the fact that it ejects from bottom!?
You can't add a high capacity ammo pouch like Negev or Maximi or even PKM.

And that full length top cover?
Where you lose your zero each time you reload.

And the fact that there is no safety in the charging handle.
You can easily get a runaway bolt while charging.

And is there semi auto mode for zeroing the barrels?

Every MAG variant ejects from bottom and none of the long MAG user including US has any problem with it, infact the soldiers love it for its reliability.
It is already being fired in semi auto, see video. No MG other than the new US ngsw SIG mg and Negev ng 7 has small flip top cover. Safety issue can be done with proper training.
Only issue I see is large ammo pack needed for lmg due to bottom ejection port and maybe full length top cover opening.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Also ARDE lmg was designed with ARMY inputs . Better ask Army about that.
RFPs come and go but orders are never placed . Emergency procurements have come like angels to our IA otherwise we might not still be seeing new small arms for years to come.
Only Lmgs which tick your all boxes are UKM 2000M and NEGEV Ng 7. So unless ARDE lmg fails trial, forget about large foreign orders.
For me I only care that the platform manufacturer be capable of learning, modifying or upgrade the weapon further and making their own line of products in meantime.

 

[Johny_Baba]

And what about the fact that it ejects from bottom!?
You can't add a high capacity ammo pouch like Negev or Maximi or even PKM.

And that full length top cover?
Where you lose your zero each time you reload.

And the fact that there is no safety in the charging handle.
You can easily get a runaway bolt while charging.

And is there semi auto mode for zeroing the barrels?

relax it's more oe less okayish development giving to what they did i.e.taking standard FN MAG and trying to lighten it up a bit with shorter barrel and new ;rivetless;-ish design of receiver etc, probably also taking down some material from bolt+bolt carrier and other chunky parts,

as for bottom eject i agree that is a problematic thing for a jawaan that is supposed to carry it around, but these ;geniuses; could easily have changed bolt face and plunger ejector position to make it side-eject i mean FN MAG directly traces its origin from John Browning's ;Browning Automatic Rifle; which was a bottom feed-side eject pattern gun to start with (albeit it had fixed ejector but still)

as for 'zeroing' issue well that is a Machine Gun firing from open bolt already, accuracy like a marksman's weapon isn't so desired here as long as it could provide effective suppressive fire and giving to its sturdier construction i believe there won't be much wobble to mess u with whatever zero shift we think it could cause

safety in charging handle because of potential to cause runaway bolt, i agree here, easily fixable though

as for semi auto mode is there they upgraded trigger group with one that provides both semi-auto and full auto fire modes

btw for you all here, just do me a favour and compare receiver section of this OFB belt fed LMG and a certain (mostly prototype as of now) machine gun named "Barrett 240LW" (now this design owned by Geissele though), don't do much just observe receiver sections of both and try to "think" about it hhmm

 

[Lonewarrior]

and try to "think" about it hhmm

Yup mate, I clearly know that "hhmm" you're talking about.

They straight on ripped Barrett's one piece receiver idea. Where instead of riveting sheet steel sections, you drop forge two receiver halves and TIG weld it.
The only thing OFB did, is change the pattern of lightening cuts on the receiver.

But probably the most important part is, that method of manufacturing is patented by Barrett (now Geissele).

 

[arrinherbe]

INSAS rifle

INSAS is a family of infantry arms consisting of an assault rifle, a light machine gun and a carbine. It is manufactured by the Indian State Ordnance Factory Board at its Ishapore factory. The Insas Assault Rifle is now the standard infantry weapon of the Indian Armed Forces.

New INSAS derivatives

The INSAS rifle is broadly based on the famous Kalashnikov AK-47 action, but with many modifications. The basic gas-operated action (long stroke gas system, rotating bolt, and stamped steel receiver) is of the Kalashnikov pattern. However, the gas system is fitted with a manual gas regulator similar in design to that found on FN FAL rifles as well as a gas cutoff. The charging handle is positioned on the left side of the forearm; it is similar in position and design to German HK G3 rifle.

Ordnance Factory Board

goood

 

[Johny_Baba]

Yup mate, I clearly know that "hhmm" you're talking about.

They straight on ripped Barrett's one piece receiver idea. Where instead of riveting sheet steel sections, you drop forge two receiver halves and TIG weld it.
The only thing OFB did, is change the pattern of lightening cuts on the receiver.

But probably the most important part is, that method of manufacturing is patented by Barrett (now Geissele).

i believe they got the idea from US program of M240L (lightweight) only where this Barrett was also a competitor, but most probably "tech" they are using is of their own, after all this came out around same exact time we were shown Mk.1C Excalibur rifle that also showcased this ;transition; from stamped sheet metal + riveted (in case of INSAS line of firearms) receiver design to milled receiver one, so yeah they probably already had their own tech that they may have used here and so.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Formula One fans will recognise one of their partners who are probably supplying the CNC machines. BTW even PLR use machines of the same company, which we saw in that video of their factory which if I’m not wrong was posted by @Gessler .

 

[Lonewarrior]

Formula One fans will recognise one of their partners who are probably supplying the CNC machines. BTW even PLR use machines of the same company, which we saw in that video of their factory which if I’m not wrong was posted by @Gessler .

Haas is more or less the de-facto standard in CNC

 

[Aditya Ballal]

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[Covfefe]

did i cut some nerve here or something ?

This 21 saal ka Tom going on slugfest thinking i am doing eggzpozey of "his products" not being his own etc whatever and then doing all MUH REZERVESHUNS = AFFIRMATIVE AKTIONS RUINED INDIA REEE like dude you telling all these to a sufferer of same sistem...You literally are sitting in da first wurld nation like amreeka and yet whatever you are doing and offering is nothing more than what a desi kompany named Stumpp Schuele & Somappa Defense (SSSD) do here, i.e. sourcing parts-kits and assembling it back claiming it being fully self made whatever...
> sourcing parts kits = something like this
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> assembling it back together by stamping a receiver from such available (or let's say self made here at least) steel plates
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to this
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to finally a full rifle as shown in pics by adding some preferred form of furniture (buttstock, pistol grip etc) and additional things, [Note - This is Vepr based rifle not what he's trying to offer, but similar to what he is offering, just showing to others how it would look like with 20 round magazine etc]
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oh and all those full auto 'military surplus' fire control group installation is also simple parts replacement and configuring bolt carrier to work with auto sear (if not already done from imports) etc things...not a rocket science at all you just source these full auto trigger groups etc and pin it all down in rifle in place
of course there is lots of metalworks skills involved here but don't make it look like a mumbo jumbo engineering when guys having ITI certifications on machinery works here could do all if given similar availability of parts+machinery+training...

Just FYI again, we already have a local AK here that offers much more than what your PSL kit built AK is offering, and yet it was rejected by Indian Army for ;very high recoil; whatever issues,
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...and you think whatever you're offering is something that would get passing from literal sloth-chhaps bureaucrasy that are sitting there in Ministry of Defense let alone goal shifting champion Indian Army afsars and gernails on side

Even when their sniper rifle offerings are pure import->rebranding->manufacturing if getting more orders, combat rifles from Stumpp Schuele & Somappa Defense (SSSD) are more "self developed" than whatever you are offering to us in "dirt cheap" and yet they don't get a chance here, for instance their P-72 series,
View attachment 116784
just discuss with @Chinmoy here who could explain it in deep about all bureaucratic mess, just to get a better understanding if you even care about getting a contract here,

and please before going on another sludgefest about TUMNE KYA KIYA REEEEEEEE MENE 21 SAAL ME ITNA KUCHH KIYA,
my monthly income is less than 300 dollars i.e. less than price of your AK, and so far i am only able to gather about 1000 dollars after cutting all expenses, i haven't bought a new pair of footwear for me since 2019 because well the current one is still hasn't fully worn out despite it giving me regular shoebite and my feet having those blisters all around, since past two years i haven't bought a piece of clothing for me even during this diwali season because my father's old clothes would be enough for me for some more years i think, i still don't own a vehicle of mine and giving to price of fuel soaring like mad it seems very unlikely that i would be able to do so in future,
...and yet all these signature 3rd world poverty i am trying my best to know about firearms and sharing whatever i know about it to others on this very forum, on facebook (not doing it so since some time as all my friends there stopped posting on that zucc platform due to censorship issues), on telegram...
i don't have much tangible achievements in fields of firearms like you simply because i am piss poor and live in a nation that looks down on innovators and throws lots of restrictions in name of various things LAWS and whatever, all i have in name of 'achivements' (if you even consider it) is that i have made some friends who share same passion about firearms and helped them succeed while i could not get same for me, there is a guy on Quora named 'Erbeus Griffin' (i usually avoided taking his name so far just kept referring him as 'quora friend' because i usually don't feel it is right to back myself on other internet friends' achievements), for example, then there is certain 'Jerry' who is doing journalism and currently working as an intern defense journalist etc...

but ok your points are right i should better STFU when i have not even one percent of actual tangible achievements of mine compared to you, i thought i was trying to help you when i suggested something about short stroke AK in 7.62 NATO feeding from SLR (= british FAL) magazines, that is something that has not been offered to us yet and has actual chance of success (in my view of course, rest you do your thing),

all the best,

will not meddle around with your posts anymore

Don't know much about Small weapons but Sig Sauer walon ka bhi phat gaya hoga, yeh tommy kya hai