Small arms and Light Weapons

When picking a gun, what would your primary consideration be?


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another_armchair

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Yes that one had OFT markjng while old ones from 1967 and later ones had RFI markjngs.. Btw one which was from 1998 had bdl or somethjng like that marking. Dont know which ordnance factory is that.
BDL? That's a first... never heard of BDL churn out small arms, even in the smallest numbers.

My Dad's unit had picked up a small batch of SLR's for a very specific task from OFT... let me see if I can find the memento of a hand crafted SLR in a glass case they had gifted him. These were the 'new' SLRs with fibre furniture. Pretty solid.
 
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ALBY

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BDL? That's a first... never heard of BDL churn out small arms, even in the smallest numbers.

My Dad's unit had picked up a small batch of SLR's for a very specific task from OFT... let me see if I can find the memento of a hand crafted SLR in a glass case they had gifted him. These were the 'new' SLRs with fibre furniture. Pretty solid.
I saw.. Whats Bdl?
 

ALBY

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FalconSlayers

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@Marliii can you ask that Vivek Krishnan guy on Twitter on whether he is buiding an AR-15 based small arms system or not as he mentioned before?
 

Marliii

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@Marliii can you ask that Vivek Krishnan guy on Twitter on whether he is buiding an AR-15 based small arms system or not as he mentioned before?
I had asked him about that when i asked him if p72 was participating in IA trails.amd he said no so I asked if an ar15 based rifle is on works or not and he said he cannot say anything about it.
 

FalconSlayers

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I had asked him about that when i asked him if p72 was participating in IA trails.amd he said no so I asked if an ar15 based rifle is on works or not and he said he cannot say anything about it.
Kaisa chomu insaan hai be? what is he planning to sell their stuff to? Will not offer what he has, and is thinking what to do when IA is selecting stuff, whom will he sell? Lol, he can’t even sell in USA because most of their stuff is IPR Violated and can blacklist his firm in the United States. CAPFs are more than happy with PLR Defence as their trusted supplier and they would not want a clusterfuck of different small arms any further.
 

Twinblade

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PHASE 2: Seeing the shortfall of 7.62x39, China tries to modify the Type 56 to get more range by increasing barrel length of existing design alongwith some other mods like retractable stock. They call this Type 81s and intend to use this as their standard rifle.

View attachment 99038
Type 81 was not derived from Type 56. The DNA of the rifle was from SKS. It is essentially a modernised SKS and a brilliant design.
 

FalconSlayers

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That wasn't my point dude. Fact is: pick any large Army in the world, they will have their own Country's assault rifles as standard.
US: M4A1
Rus: AK-12
China: QBZ 95/191
UK: SA 80

If you see the bigger picture, arming a large army with phoren rifle isn't very good move by any Govt in the world as a lot of funds are given away which are never gonna return back. Another reason is Self Pride. These are particular reasons why India had chosen to go ahead with INSAS.
Now my question: What did we gain with our learnings??
PHASE 1: India adpots INSAS 1A. 1999 Kargil shows INSAS's shortcomings as a poor quality rifle with myriads of issues.
PHASE 2: INSAS 1B gets created that solves most of the issues with 1A instead of jamming and cracking of mags. Root cause: Poor Polymer used for mags that cannot withstand heavy torturous Army usage, poor quality of M85 Ball ammos created by OFB which mostly resulted in failure to feed and eject.
PHASE 3: Ammo quality is improved by OFB and max INSAS rifles are either repaired or replsced by 1B1. No one talks about how much INSAS improved since Kargil and top Army brass cook their Rotis on a false agenda of INSAS being faulty albeit due to phoren maal ka nasha.
PHASE 4: DRDO and OFB improve on INSAS making Excalibur which has vastly improved over INSAS in terms of functionality. Excalibur performs excellently during test but top brass is not impressed.

Finally INSAS's image is tarnished as a Global failure. Fun fact: most jamming of INSAS was due to poor maintenance practice by users themselves as they had previously used low maintenance SLRs and AKs.

I would like to bring all ya'll notice towards our rival CHINA here:

PHASE 1: China gets their AKM pattern rifle TOT from Soviet. They call it the Type 56. Mass production is made of this rifle and given to entire PLA.
View attachment 99037

This serves well for around 20 years but they do not stop.

PHASE 2: Seeing the shortfall of 7.62x39, China tries to modify the Type 56 to get more range by increasing barrel length of existing design alongwith some other mods like retractable stock. They call this Type 81s and intend to use this as their standard rifle.

View attachment 99038

PHASE 3: Again after few years and running a parallel project of 5.8x42mm cartridge(after getting influenced by 5.45x39mm), China tries their hands on a bullpup design rifle using 7.62x39. Idea here is that it should have interchangeable parts with AK like bolt, mags, bolt carrier, etc. They mostly import this to US and get good feedback(be it in limited numbers). This is called Type 86s. The advent of a very popular bullpup rifle.
View attachment 99039

PHASE 4: Norinco goes full scale on QBZ development and the new 5.8x42 mm bullet. All sorts of tests are conducted and finally QBZ-95 gets selected as standard assault rifle for PLA and other forces. Also, a civilian version called T-97 NSR is created that chambers 5.56 NATO. Alongwith this, a sniper of same QB family called QBU-88 gets inducted too.
View attachment 99040
View attachment 99041

PHASE 5: China again does a lot of R&D( espionage) and finally modifies their existing rifle to now use conventional AR design. Not much is known but the rifle is called QBZ-191 and will replace QBZ-95.
View attachment 99043

As you can see, at no point did China abandon their rifle project, neither they got inclined towards Phoren rifles like India is doing.
This has saved them millions of dollars infact.
Had INSAS followed the same route and was supported by Army, we could've saved our money and kept our pride.
I don’t care about SiG-716, but we definitely need our own Assault rifle, and god know why we are going for AK-203.
 

Marliii

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IMG_20210710_182628.jpg

LWRC m6 ultra compact in use with SAS.M6 beat hk416c during the trails in 2000s
 

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