Small arms and Light Weapons

[FalconSlayers]

How can one differentiate between them? Or its based on news?

The 45° gas block, TAR has everything same (It is copy of Bulgarian AK) but TAR has a 90° gas block.

 

[ALBY]

The 45° gas block, TAR has everything same (It is copy of Bulgarian AK) but TAR has a 90° gas block.

Nope. Both have 90° gas blocks. though boyh are similar, there is a minute appearance difference in these gasblocks. Last year or back unknowncommando2 had posted a pic telling difference between two gas blocks.
Otherwise both the same as Tar is a license produced one by OFB.
Can't say every product of OFB is crap. Thr things which license produce are good, like Carl Gustevs, Brens, Fn Fals, Mag-58s and even the Tars. But when they try to make something new shit happens.
Couple of months back i got an opportunity to lay hands on the Ghatak rifles, the finish was bad, but on the otherhand the Bulgarian Aks were too fine. Iirc the bulgies were procured at a cost of 6500 in 2004 and by 2012/14 it was 22500.Where as Ghataks were procured at a cost of 46k in 2018/19

 

[ketaki]

Nope. Both have 90° gas blocks. though boyh are similar, there is a minute appearance difference in these gasblocks. Last year or back unknowncommando2 had posted a pic telling difference between two gas blocks.
Otherwise both the same as Tar is a license produced one by OFB.
Can't say every product of OFB is crap. Thr things which license produce are good, like Carl Gustevs, Brens, Fn Fals, Mag-58s and even the Tars. But when they try to make something new shit happens.
Couple of months back i got an opportunity to lay hands on the Ghatak rifles, the finish was bad, but on the otherhand the Bulgarian Aks were too fine. Iirc the bulgies were procured at a cost of 6500 in 2004 and by 2012/14 it was 22500.Where as Ghataks were procured at a cost of 46k in 2018/19

surface finish ?

 

[Flying Dagger]

Nope. Both have 90° gas blocks. though boyh are similar, there is a minute appearance difference in these gasblocks. Last year or back unknowncommando2 had posted a pic telling difference between two gas blocks.
Otherwise both the same as Tar is a license produced one by OFB.
Can't say every product of OFB is crap. Thr things which license produce are good, like Carl Gustevs, Brens, Fn Fals, Mag-58s and even the Tars. But when they try to make something new shit happens.
Couple of months back i got an opportunity to lay hands on the Ghatak rifles, the finish was bad, but on the otherhand the Bulgarian Aks were too fine. Iirc the bulgies were procured at a cost of 6500 in 2004 and by 2012/14 it was 22500.Where as Ghataks were procured at a cost of 46k in 2018/19

And in 90s East German/Romanian AK costed less than 4500 while INSAS was close to 18-20 k then.

We have around 8+ type of AKs in army which needs to be standardized.

Also I think the over all price has been renegotiated to round 960 dollar now for watered down ak 203.

If we are able to produce AK 15 instead or even ak 203 there is a market outside but will Russia let us compete ?

Also are you sure about TAR being licensed produced or just copied ?

STG-942.Orders were placed for these ones jn late 80s to East Germany and there were plans to license produce these beauties here. But thanks to the fall of commonusim nothibg happened and we were stuck with Insas.

View attachment 94456

We bought several different rifles and had plans to produce them here but nothing ever worked out as OFB blocked them for INSAS.

Vz 58 was best one we missed. A short stroke GP based rifle firing AK round. Best of both worlds.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

I wonder why OFB never tried to reverse engineer the Vz-58, despite attempting to reverse engineer AKs from different countries for the last 30 years?

A modernized Vz-58 can be quite competitive against a watered down AK203.

 

[FalconSlayers]

I wonder why OFB never tried to reverse engineer the Vz-58, despite attempting to reverse engineer AKs from different countries for the last 30 years?

A modernized Vz-58 can be quite competitive against a watered down AK203.

OFB is a joke, their AK-7 is an example, useless. By now they should be offering AR-15 and AK-47 pattern modernised rifles, suppressors, grips and other accessories, they don’t do any of such. Neither SSSD is in mood.

 

[Marliii]

OFB is a joke, their AK-7 is an example, useless. By now they should be offering AR-15 and AK-47 pattern modernised rifles, suppressors, grips and other accessories, they don’t do any of such. Neither SSSD is in mood.

Does any one have image of ak7? Mikhail kalanishkov himself blasted OFB for it

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Does any one have image of ak7? Mikhail kalanishkov himself blasted OFB for it

Source: Kunal da

 

[MisraZ]

Could you share the tweet?

I'm not able to find that tweet . Short comings of Ghataak assault rifle I can find because we posted in this thread only in page 156/7. Should've posted that here too.

 

[Johny_Baba]

Nope. Both have 90° gas blocks. though boyh are similar, there is a minute appearance difference in these gasblocks. Last year or back unknowncommando2 had posted a pic telling difference between two gas blocks.
Otherwise both the same as Tar is a license produced one by OFB.
Can't say every product of OFB is crap. Thr things which license produce are good, like Carl Gustevs, Brens, Fn Fals, Mag-58s and even the Tars. But when they try to make something new shit happens.
Couple of months back i got an opportunity to lay hands on the Ghatak rifles, the finish was bad, but on the otherhand the Bulgarian Aks were too fine. Iirc the bulgies were procured at a cost of 6500 in 2004 and by 2012/14 it was 22500.Where as Ghataks were procured at a cost of 46k in 2018/19

Pardon my interruption but it was me who pointed out clear difference between TAR and Bulgarian AKs, at here (pics are dead but i have it saved on my pc, will post it later)
notice the date and time of post,
13th October,2017

Well,I think I've found a visible difference between TAR (Kalashnikov Variant) and Bulgarian AK.

OFB Trichy's gas block has flat profile at front,While Bulgarian AK's gas block is not that flat at front,in fact its profile is very similar to AK-74's gas block.

OFB Trichy

Bulgarian AK (probably AR-M1 or AR-M7)

and these were the pics that i provided, of course edited in mspaint,

Since then many defense pages on FB Insta Twitter picked it up from here and posted their own versions of how to differentiate between Trichy AK and Bulgarian Arsenal AKs, I even got into tu-tu-me-me with one such page ( with more than 7000 followers back in 2018 perhaps ) that posted normal Bulgarian AK and called it Trichy and when i provided link of this post Owners simply banned me lol, later after some time exact same thing i.e. look at gas block, if flat=trichy, was posted by them on their Twitter loool.
Later saw it everywhere on different defense pages on fb/insta/twitter even youtube.

if only i had my own ones and posted it all there prior to them...

 

[ALBY]

Source: Kunal da

Lol.. Thats a Bulgarian Ak. Ak7 was a stamped receiver Ak.

 

[ALBY]

Pardon my interruption but it was me who pointed out clear difference between TAR and Bulgarian AKs, at here (pics are dead but i have it saved on my pc, will post it later)
notice the date and time of post,
13th October,2017


and these were the pics that i provided, of course edited in mspaint,
View attachment 94513
View attachment 94512
View attachment 94514

Since then many defense pages on FB Insta Twitter picked it up from here and posted their own versions of how to differentiate between Trichy AK and Bulgarian Arsenal AKs, I even got into tu-tu-me-me with one such page ( with more than 7000 followers back in 2018 perhaps ) that posted normal Bulgarian AK and called it Trichy and when i provided link of this post Owners simply banned me lol, later after some time exact same thing i.e. look at gas block, if flat=trichy, was posted by them on their Twitter loool.
Later saw it everywhere on different defense pages on fb/insta/twitter even youtube.

if only i had my own ones and posted it all there prior to them...

Lol. Then it was u. Since i had seen this couole of years back i dont remember who posted it.You should be proud because someone still remembers the details u posted couple of years back

 

[ALBY]

surface finish ?

Yes

 

[ALBY]

I wonder why OFB never tried to reverse engineer the Vz-58, despite attempting to reverse engineer AKs from different countries for the last 30 years?

A modernized Vz-58 can be quite competitive against a watered down AK203.

Question should be why OFB license produced 9mm Sterlings instead of much useful Aks. Getting license to produce Aks was never an issue concerning the relations with Ussr. But then IA was just aping what Brits done.
Instead of milled receiver Bulgarian Aks we could have asked Czhecks to start a production like of lighter Vzs for our Capfs or could have asked for the blueprints of it.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Lol.. Thats a Bulgarian Ak. Ak7 was a stamped receiver Ak.

No it was a A-7 rifle from OFB.

The picture from Kunal da is from Defence Expo (in the 2000s) from OFB stall, as confirmed by him.

Also, it was not completely rejected but inducted in small numbers. Due to similarity people often mistake these rifles as Bulgarian AK (which also exists in army inventory).

A-7 was a project of RF Ishapore. In the early 90s also RF Ishapore came up with the first AK copy inspired by those captured in J&K. That rifle was known MR-91. Finally al there experience ultimately cultimated into Ghataak AR (around 2014), though it looks different externally from its predecessors.

TAR on the other hand is a clean sheet copy of AR-1 from Arsenal by Trichy OF.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

No it was a A-7 rifle from OFB.

The picture from Kunal da is from Defence Expo (in the 2000s) from OFB stall, as confirmed by him.

Also, it was not completely rejected but inducted in small numbers. Due to similarity people often mistake these rifles as Bulgarian AK (which also exists in army inventory).

A-7 was a project of RF Ishapore. In the early 90s also RF Ishapore came up with the first AK copy inspired by those captured in J&K. That rifle was known MR-91. Finally al there experience ultimately cultimated into Ghataak AR (around 2014), though it looks different externally from its predecessors.

TAR on the other hand is a clean sheet copy of AR-1 from Arsenal by Trichy OF.

Why did Arsenal Arms never take any action on OFB? Is it because MHA forces bought so much more from them directly?
If that’s the reason then it’s very similar to how we were forced to buy many FN FALs from Belgium and purchase the license to make FN MAGs to avoid FN Herstal taking legal action on OFB for making unlicensed copies of the FALs and contiuing to make them in the future.

 

[MisraZ]

Ofb's website has incorrect image of Ghataak rifle?

 

[ALBY]

No it was a A-7 rifle from OFB.

The picture from Kunal da is from Defence Expo (in the 2000s) from OFB stall, as confirmed by him.

Also, it was not completely rejected but inducted in small numbers. Due to similarity people often mistake these rifles as Bulgarian AK (which also exists in army inventory).

A-7 was a project of RF Ishapore. In the early 90s also RF Ishapore came up with the first AK copy inspired by those captured in J&K. That rifle was known MR-91. Finally al there experience ultimately cultimated into Ghataak AR (around 2014), though it looks different externally from its predecessors.

TAR on the other hand is a clean sheet copy of AR-1 from Arsenal by Trichy OF.

I am not going to say anything about thjngs said by others
I remember him claiming thats an Ak7 , but afaik the weapon he is holding is a milled receiver bulgarian Ak,and the weapon which was made by RFI and displayed at Defexpo jn 2004 was a brown wooden furnitured stamped sheet Ak clone.

Ak7

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

STG-942.Orders were placed for these ones jn late 80s to East Germany and there were plans to license produce these beauties here. But thanks to the fall of commonusim nothibg happened and we were stuck with Insas.

View attachment 94456

What a dreadful tragedy , fall of east Germany was for indian army.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Ofb's website has incorrect image of Ghataak rifle?

View attachment 94539

This thing has 670m/s muzzle velocity, this mean OFB ammo is 45m/s slower than standard 7.62x39mm round which has 715m/s muzzle velocity when fired from an AK-47.