Small arms and Light Weapons

[shuvo@y2k10]

MRF-91 here is a stamped sheet receiver-ed rifle, most likely a copy of AKM(this one seems copy of S-version, underfolding buttstock) and ones shown by Kunal Dada was milled recever,Type-3 pattern AK, most probably a Bulgarian one i believe because well they are one of the remaining guys out who still produce milled receiver AKs with some 'modernisation' to give AK-74 style furniture-looks etc.

OFB was a production agency till very recently. OFB can only copy something which is available to them. In early 90s,at the start of the J&K terrorism, huge influx of AKMs happened many of which was transferred from Afghanisthan. The weapons captured by IA led to the developement of MRF-91.

In the early 90s, with the arrival of Bulgarian AKs, that design was available to them. So OFB came up with A-7. Now Gen. kalashnikov should have threatened the Bulgarians instead of us, for IPR infringements.

 

[Johny_Baba]

OFB was a production agency till very recently. OFB can only copy something which is available to them. In early 90s,at the start of the J&K terrorism, huge influx of AKMs happened many of which was transferred from Afghanisthan. The weapons captured by IA led to the developement of MRF-91.

In the early 90s, with the arrival of Bulgarian AKs, that design was available to them. So OFB came up with A-7. Now Gen. kalashnikov should have threatened the Bulgarians instead of us, for IPR infringements.

Well how old gen Kalashnikov could blame Bulgarians when as part of Warsaw Pact they received ToT for Kalashnikovs from the daddy USSR ? like others under warsaw-pact they were free to make their own AKs and post breakup of whole circus they continued to do so.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

The Kalashnikov episode ruined many plans for OFB. Otherwise I feel that OFB could have also cloned the AK-103s which Marcos was receiving.
Had that happened, we would now not have to run to Russians for their AK-203s.

 

[FalconSlayers]

The Kalashnikov episode ruined many plans for OFB. Otherwise I feel that OFB could have also cloned the AK-103s which Marcos was receiving.
Had that happened, we would now not have to run to Russians for their AK-203s.

OFB is a dead case, a joke. It’s products are developed for no reason, they made the baby TAR, for whom? Army didn’t even consider purchasing it in small numbers for Kashmir. Things which are good are also ignored.

 

[Flying Dagger]

OFB was a production agency till very recently. OFB can only copy something which is available to them. In early 90s,at the start of the J&K terrorism, huge influx of AKMs happened many of which was transferred from Afghanisthan. The weapons captured by IA led to the developement of MRF-91.

In the early 90s, with the arrival of Bulgarian AKs, that design was available to them. So OFB came up with A-7. Now Gen. kalashnikov should have threatened the Bulgarians instead of us, for IPR infringements.

The threat was all vapour nothing more.

We shouldn't have stopped producing but yes some minor upgrade and difference should have been incorporated like M4 style buttstock etc.

Also OFB produce what army ask them to..

Bulgaria on the otherhand like East Germany Romania etc was part of Warsaw pact and they continued the production with their own version of Aks and there is nothing one can do abt it.

 

[Flying Dagger]

OFB is a dead case, a joke. It’s products are developed for no reason, they made the baby TAR, for whom? Army didn’t even consider purchasing it in small numbers for Kashmir. Things which are good are also ignored.

For CRPF etc they wanted a 7.62 AK carbine Army was out of question.

But Army at one point was considering using AK 203 carbine variant.

 

[FalconSlayers]

For CRPF etc they wanted a 7.62 AK carbine Army was out of question.

But Army at one point was considering using AK 203 carbine variant.

Leave 7.62x39 in infantry for fuck’s sake

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Russian SSO in Syria

 

[Marliii]

Russian SSO in Syria
View attachment 94578

Man army should adopt this plain type uniform for deserts

 

[Flying Dagger]

Leave 7.62x39 in infantry for fuck’s sake

Its a good round and in some cases should be used as carbine variant. CRPF move to shift to AK round from 5.56 is justified. I hope BSF do the same.

Even French GIGN have ordered a few Bren2 with AK round.

Also this new carbine aka Baby TAR open up future for other carbine and rifle variant with small barrels that might be available from OFB.

 

[Marliii]

I don't think army will buy any OFB made carbine or 7.62x51 battle rifle as army is actively trying to get OFB out of IAs small arms.even the whole ak203 was just kalanishkov backing OFB so that army knows they don't fuck up

 

[ALBY]

MRF-91 here is a stamped sheet receiver-ed rifle, most likely a copy of AKM(this one seems copy of S-version, underfolding buttstock) and ones shown by Kunal Dada was milled recever,Type-3 pattern AK, most probably a Bulgarian one i believe because well they are one of the remaining guys out who still produce milled receiver AKs with some 'modernisation' to give AK-74 style furniture-looks etc.

Is the ARM1s made by Bulgarians direct copies of Type-3 AK47s?

 

[Johny_Baba]

Is the ARM1s made by Bulgarians direct copies of Type-3 AK47s?

Yes,
till mid-1960s Bulgarians were mostly dependent on other Eastern Bloc allies for weapons, notably Poland which started producing their own AK-47 of type-3 pattern around same time named PMK,

Around late 50s-Early 60s they got license+ToT+Assitance of all from from USSR to manufacture Kalashnikovs, they decided to make AK-47 of type-3 pattern because of Polish made type-3 AKs they received-adopted in service etc and first samples of locally made AKs were manufactured in 1958, later when factory became fully functional they switched to local made AKs from polish ones in time.
Interestingly Soviets themselves had started manufacturing AKM in 1959-60 onwards, and when AK-74 arrived bulgarians made them in stamped sheet receivers but they kept insisting for milled receiver AKs in 7.62x39mm (even their variant of RPK is of milled receiver one) - which kinda became signature of Bulgarian made AKs in current time.

pic of Bulgarian made type-3 AK-47, named AKK (notice famous circle 10 marking on receiver)

So yeah naturally when fall of USSR happened and current Arsenal Joint-Stock Company was formed from previous one, they kept the tradition intact, very first versions of Arsenal made AKs (named simply Arsenal AR) were more or less direct derivative of AKK in modern black furniture, with ^this^ pattern of 45 degree gas block on it.
Then they adopted AK-74 pattern gas block on most iterations of Arsenal AR, perhaps to bring commonality across different variants manufactured there, put AKM style 'muzzle brake' (sic) in some variant like AR-M1 and so, nowadays putting hinged rails sections on top with Arsenal M5F41.

Nowadays they have started making AKs of both milled and stamped sheet receivers in all calibers mainly due to demand in market i guess but the actual military stuff offered in 7.62x39mm is mostly of Type-3 milled receiver pattern (of course in different stock configurations).

 

[Johny_Baba]

Yes,
till mid-1960s Bulgarians were mostly dependent on other Eastern Bloc allies for weapons, notably Poland which started producing their own AK-47 of type-3 pattern around same time named PMK,

Around late 50s-Early 60s they got license+ToT+Assitance of all from from USSR to manufacture Kalashnikovs, they decided to make AK-47 of type-3 pattern because of Polish made type-3 AKs they received-adopted in service etc and first samples of locally made AKs were manufactured in 1958, later when factory became fully functional they switched to local made AKs from polish ones in time.
Interestingly Soviets themselves had started manufacturing AKM in 1959-60 onwards, and when AK-74 arrived bulgarians made them in stamped sheet receivers but they kept insisting for milled receiver AKs in 7.62x39mm (even their variant of RPK is of milled receiver one) - which kinda became signature of Bulgarian made AKs in current time.

pic of Bulgarian made type-3 AK-47, named AKK (notice famous circle 10 marking on receiver)
View attachment 94599

So yeah naturally when fall of USSR happened and current Arsenal Joint-Stock Company was formed from previous one, they kept the tradition intact, very first versions of Arsenal made AKs (named simply Arsenal AR) were more or less direct derivative of AKK in modern black furniture, with ^this^ pattern of 45 degree gas block on it.
Then they adopted AK-74 pattern gas block on most iterations of Arsenal AR, perhaps to bring commonality across different variants manufactured there, put AKM style 'muzzle brake' (sic) in some variant like AR-M1 and so, nowadays putting hinged rails sections on top with Arsenal M5F41.

Nowadays they have started making AKs of both milled and stamped sheet receivers in all calibers mainly due to demand in market i guess but the actual military stuff offered in 7.62x39mm is mostly of Type-3 milled receiver pattern (of course in different stock configurations).

So yeah in a way,
Trichy also is a Type-3 AK-47 pattern rifle with flat gas block, AKM style muzzle device, different stock configurations, black furniture etc
I am not sure about trigger group on both Arsenal AK and Trichy, i mean if it's also of AK-47 pattern dual-hook one without hammer retarder (to keep rate of fire consistent-around 600 rounds per minute) or AKM (and following variants) pattern one with single hook and hammer retarder,
though judging from the vids i've seen of both Trichy and Arsenal AK fired on full auto it seems to be case of former one i.e. dual-hook one from AK-47.

There is a way to get some confirmation about it, observe the slots made for trigger hooks on receiver side, around trigger

if it's got two slots like ^first pic above^ then it's most probably AK-47 pattern trigger group minus hammer retarder (thoug you could still affix single hook one here with some slight modifications),
if it's got single slot like ^scond pic above^ then it's of single hook trigger, still couldn't be said about hammer retarder on it from just outside look.

on INSAS it's confirmed that it is a dual-hook trigger like AK-47, without hammer retarder,
so most probably Ghatak also has AK-47 style trigger group on it because Ghaatak ~= 7.62 x 39mm version of INSAS.

Since AK-103 is practically a 7.62x39mm version of AK-74M, it's got this single-hook trigger + hammer retarder on it, slightly more controllable on full auto than regular AKs, and with effective muzzle brake installed also somewhat pleasant to shoot
^we should try to imitate such basic feature on Trichy etc instead of over-experimenting with rails and different buttstocks.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

How is the performance of Insas LMG (5.56*45 mm)?

Is the army planning to retire the Insas LMG with the induction of Negev LMG (7.62*51 mm)? Or will both co-exists?

 

[FalconSlayers]

How is the performance of Insas LMG (5.56*45 mm)?

Is the army planning to retire the Insas LMG with the induction of Negev LMG (7.62*51 mm)? Or will both co-exists?

NG7 will replace INSAS.

 

[Marliii]

Insas LMG will be replaced by more than 60k
7.62x51 lmg

 

[Johny_Baba]

How is the performance of Insas LMG (5.56*45 mm)?

Is the army planning to retire the Insas LMG with the induction of Negev LMG (7.62*51 mm)? Or will both co-exists?

So far so good, apart from using it as an LMG Army also uses it like makeshift DMR with OFB made 4x scope and so, has got thicker-heavier barrel than INSAS, receiver also has reinforcements on trunnions (not exactly like RPK but strengthened yes), full-auto trigger (of AK47 pattern) than 3-round burst one which was deemed problematic in past experiences and yeah.

Still there was one video that shown failures of feeding i think during some fight at LoC, so yeah not so perfect but much well received than regular 1B INSAS.

As for replacement i think most of LMGs will be replaced with NG-7 but with all older stuff here there shall be some of them in service in some remotely deployed units having no access to NG-7 and so.
We still use Bren L4, don't we ?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

I read a news story that in during one of the U stped ambush by the Maoists in chattisgarh, a CRPF jawan fought back and fired more than 1000 rounds with Insas LMG (without any stoppages) preventing the terrorists from closing in, till re-inforcements arrived. That incident saving many injured jawan's lifes.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

So far so good, apart from using it as an LMG Army also uses it like makeshift DMR with OFB made 4x scope and so, has got thicker-heavier barrel than INSAS, receiver also has reinforcements on trunnions (not exactly like RPK but strengthened yes), full-auto trigger (of AK47 pattern) than 3-round burst one which was deemed problematic in past experiences and yeah.

Still there was one video that shown failures of feeding i think during some fight at LoC, so yeah not so perfect but much well received than regular 1B INSAS.

As for replacement i think most of LMGs will be replaced with NG-7 but with all older stuff here there shall be some of them in service in some remotely deployed units having no access to NG-7 and so.
We still use Bren L4, don't we ?

I believe in that video they had fired quite a few rounds of ammo before the video was taken, in the video the barrel was smoking a lot, so I believe few malfunctions began after rapid fire of several hundred rounds and in the end they were not filling the mags upto capacity so he was changing them much earlier because they couldn’t keep up.
From what I’ve heard from veterans it’s really accurate and due to this it began being adopted as a DMR in some cases . They say even performance was even better when they used to use Israeli 5.56 ammunition in the initial years but after OFB rounds were being used it wasn’t as good as before but still acceptable and better than the INSAS rifle.