Small arms and Light Weapons

[Pig benis on sushy]

I feel one single platform with different barrel lengths should be considered for ease of use, we can easily get a sweet deal with Israel if we buyout IWI Arad, we’ll buy some 1.2 Million IWI Arads of different barrel lengths if we ditch AK-203 AK-103M.
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Well sf can replace their travor with Arad any chances of it happening ?

 

[FalconSlayers]

Well sf can replace their travor with Arad any chances of it happening ?

Please keep SF out, I’ve lost hope. MoD finds SCAR-L to be be superior to HK-416, such fools are sitting in MoD. And they’ll modernise SF, lololololol.

 

[Marliii]

Please keep SF out, I’ve lost hope. MoD finds SCAR-L to be be superior to HK-416, such fools are sitting in MoD. And they’ll modernise SF, lololololol.

Army really wants tavors out .which is a good thing

 

[FalconSlayers]

Army really wants tavors out .which is a good thing

When? The day when my kids will ask the question “why are the Tavors still not replaced?”. There are many SF battalions in Parachute regiment who don’t even have Tavors and use AK-47s only and substandard equipment,

 

[Tactical Doge]

When? The day when my kids will ask the question “why are the Tavors still not replaced?”. There are many SF battalions in Parachute regiment who don’t even have Tavors and use AK-47s only and substandard equipment,

Well
Avinash sir said he favoured the AR15s and Kalashnikovs to Tavors,
We've been using them for a decade and a half plus,
By logic they should have a collective consciousness developed by now and ditch them wholesale

 

[FalconSlayers]

Well
Avinash sir said he favoured the AR15s and Kalashnikovs to Tavors,
We've been using them for a decade and a half plus,
By logic they should have a collective consciousness developed by now and ditch them wholesale

AKs aren’t obsolete, but the AKs we’re using are very old, you’ll need modernised AKs.
AR-15s are used by every SF, but we use DI M4A1s not modern HK416, CAR816 etc.

 

[Marliii]

AKs aren’t obsolete, but the AKs we’re using are very old, you’ll need modernised AKs.
AR-15s are used by every SF, but we use DI M4A1s not modern HK416, CAR816 etc.

Lately Seal boys were also found using DI novosky ar15 and m4 is still most abundant in US specs guys inventory

 

[FalconSlayers]

Lately Seal boys were also found using DI novosky ar15 and m4 is still most abundant in US specs guys inventory

You need a replacement for Tavors don’t you? When will it happen?

 

[Marliii]

You need a replacement for Tavors don’t you? When will it happen?

That's like porks seeing ertugul and dreaming to be turkic warriors and me seeing seal team series and seeing all those hk416 and dreaming .tavors will be with us for a long long time and I may get a copium addiction

 

[Flying Dagger]

I feel one single platform with different barrel lengths should be considered for ease of use, we can easily get a sweet deal with Israel if we buyout IWI Arad, we’ll buy some 1.2 Million IWI Arads of different barrel lengths if we ditch AK-203 AK-103M.
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And ammo ? For assault army will ask for 7.62 AK round .

In short we should ask for diff ammo to be fired from same rifle with change of barrel and magazine.

Please keep SF out, I’ve lost hope. MoD finds SCAR-L to be be superior to HK-416, such fools are sitting in MoD. And they’ll modernise SF, lololololol.

Apart from the fact that we have been sort of banned by both suppliers both rifles are pretty good at the same time unnecessarily expensive.

We should opt for either in-house production of SCAR or AR based rifle that could be ARAD / Caracal/Sig/Steyr etc whether by copying or license production.

 

[MisraZ]

And ammo ? For assault army will ask for 7.62 AK round .

In short we should ask for diff ammo to be fired from same rifle with change of barrel and magazine.



Apart from the fact that we have been sort of banned by both suppliers both rifles are pretty good at the same time unnecessarily expensive.

We should opt for either in-house production of SCAR or AR based rifle that could be ARAD / Caracal/Sig/Steyr etc whether by copying or license production.

Tbh CZ did put everything they could for Insas replacement program. Yet idk what army wanted then. Now the same assault rifle is used by Pakis who have more/less same requirement.

Good thing is we do have 144000 sigs for Frontline troops.

 

[Twinblade]

Lately Seal boys were also found using DI novosky ar15 and m4 is still most abundant in US specs guys inventory

The use of special equipment by SF is not really an indicator of reliability or superiority. Navy seals still use M60 over M240 because of it's size advantage even though M240 was miles ahead in reliability and ease of maintenance. They also used highly maintenance intensive and failure prone platform like stoner 63. They have higher budgets and better access to spares and replacements.

Noveske N4 and Knight's SR-15 are specialised rifles that US Special forces find convenient. Half the spares are available on depot with M4/M16 lowers lying aplenty. No extra training is required to quartermasters or soldiers themselves. They will take anything that offers supeiority over the vanilla M4 which by now has matured into a reasonably reliable platform despite being DI. Commonality with M4 is incentivised as it makes it easier to maintain their rifles.

The Indian scenario is different. Our budgets are really tight, so even for special forces, the rifles need to be reliable, rugged and affordable. Commonality with existing rifles is not a big deal as we have only a few thousand tavors and M4 to begin with. Hence the affinity for upgraded AKMs which weight close to 5kg loaded without any attachments.

A piston rifle is more likely to find favour over DI in Indian scenario, Sig716 not withstanding. They massively undercut IWI in price, and frankly were a much better option than Galil 52. Further, the overall size / length specs given out for carbine tender (650 mm collapsed, 800 mm extended0 also give advantage to a carbine with folding stock. While a M4 derivative will have to be shorter than 10", a rifle with folding stock, say SiG MCX can make do with 13" barrel and still fit within the upper limits. A 13" barrel will definitely have more controllability and accuracy than a 10" barrel, not to mention lower sound and signature.

There are plenty of good DI rifles and plenty of good piston rifles. SiG MCX was horrible when introduced and now they have perfected it (although the handguard is very flimsy). HK416 were far reliable than M4 when introduced but the competition in DI has caught up big time, not to mention the weight advantage. SCAR is both overpriced and heavy due to it's bulky polymer body reinforced with steel on moving surfaces and has not delivered on the modularity promised in the beginning. SiG is really gunning for major military contracts like NGSW and Indian Army procurement. If they play it right, they will have two of the largest clients in the free world and from the looks of it, they will be very aggressive going forward.

 

[FalconSlayers]

The use of special equipment by SF is not really an indicator of reliability or superiority. Navy seals still use M60 over M240 because of it's size advantage even though M240 was miles ahead in reliability and ease of maintenance. They also used highly maintenance intensive and failure prone platform like stoner 63. They have higher budgets and better access to spares and replacements.

Noveske N4 and Knight's SR-15 are specialised rifles that US Special forces find convenient. Half the spares are available on depot with M4/M16 lowers lying aplenty. No extra training is required to quartermasters or soldiers themselves. They will take anything that offers supeiority over the vanilla M4 which by now has matured into a reasonably reliable platform despite being DI. Commonality with M4 is incentivised as it makes it easier to maintain their rifles.

The Indian scenario is different. Our budgets are really tight, so even for special forces, the rifles need to be reliable, rugged and affordable. Commonality with existing rifles is not a big deal as we have only a few thousand tavors and M4 to begin with. Hence the affinity for upgraded AKMs which weight close to 5kg loaded without any attachments.

A piston rifle is more likely to find favour over DI in Indian scenario, Sig716 not withstanding. They massively undercut IWI in price, and frankly were a much better option than Galil 52. Further, the overall size / length specs given out for carbine tender (650 mm collapsed, 800 mm extended0 also give advantage to a carbine with folding stock. While a M4 derivative will have to be shorter than 10", a rifle with folding stock, say SiG MCX can make do with 13" barrel and still fit within the upper limits. A 13" barrel will definitely have more controllability and accuracy than a 10" barrel, not to mention lower sound and signature.

There are plenty of good DI rifles and plenty of good piston rifles. SiG MCX was horrible when introduced and now they have perfected it (although the handguard is very flimsy). HK416 were far reliable than M4 when introduced but the competition in DI has caught up big time, not to mention the weight advantage. SCAR is both overpriced and heavy due to it's bulky polymer body reinforced with steel on moving surfaces and has not delivered on the modularity promised in the beginning. SiG is really gunning for major military contracts like NGSW and Indian Army procurement. If they play it right, they will have two of the largest clients in the free world and from the looks of it, they will be very aggressive going forward.

SiG MCX can be a good choice but then price is a big factor, the only reason I prefer IWI Arad is because it is a Gas Operated Rifle, 11.5” barrel over 10.5” standard in other SBRs, M-LOK rails, and it’s weight is just 2.85kg without magazine!!!

 

[Marliii]

Tbh CZ did put everything they could for Insas replacement program. Yet idk what army wanted then. Now the same assault rifle is used by Pakis who have more/less same requirement.

Good thing is we do have 144000 sigs for Frontline troops.

We were trolling small arms companies for some time it seems first we needed 5.56 rifle to replace insas that we ditched after years of trials then we wanted a multical rifle so colt put its brand new cm901 and CZ was also a participant. Then we asked for a 7.62 x51 rifle and finally got sig716.in this entire time another carbine saga was also running first was cancelled in trial stage then we got the second rfi in which arx160a2 and galil ace was the final participants but during trials eye safety on arx fell and army disqualified them.berreta told them its just a safety feature but army didn't care and there was only ace then so single vendor situation and deal cancelled .then we called another RFI and car816 was selected and then also got scrapped.if you are a gun company will put your money and effort on this type of shit? Hk and FN don't even want to participate and hooman rights is good way for them to avoid us.then pakis became interested in SCAR h then they went to CZ bren but all talks seems to be down it seems and they will use g3.

 

[Tactical Doge]

then pakis became interested in SCAR h then they went to CZ bren but all talks seems to be down it seems and they will use g3.

ScarH was too expensive for porkis so they scrapped the deal,
And remaining were the AK103 and PK33 which is the HK redesignated for porki army

The AK cleared their trials(which btw is one of hardest at least in Asia) with flying colours
Then they found out that their economy and their defence budget is buttfucked so they sticked with modernization plans for g3

 

[Marliii]

ScarH was too expensive for porkis so they scrapped the deal,
And remaining were the AK103 and PK33 which is the HK redesignated for porki army

The AK cleared their trials(which btw is one of hardest at least in Asia) with flying colours
Then they found out that their economy and their defence budget is buttfucked so they sticked with modernization plans for g3

G3 was in service for porks in 60s I believe at a time we were using bolt action LOL

 

[Tactical Doge]

G3 was in service for porks in 60s I believe at a time we were using bolt action LOL

Yes, G3 is an excellent platform
There's a video of Larry Vickers with an Iranian G3
He has very good opinion of the weapon

 

[Flying Dagger]

Tbh CZ did put everything they could for Insas replacement program. Yet idk what army wanted then. Now the same assault rifle is used by Pakis who have more/less same requirement.

Good thing is we do have 144000 sigs for Frontline troops.

Army was asked to wait for OFB/DRDO new inventions then.

The ASR raised by army was good though many criticized it and called unreasonable and over the top even here in the forum.

Though there are many suppliers available now and offer the same.

 

[Killbot]

The ASR raised by army was good though many criticized it and called unreasonable and over the top even here in the forum.

Though there are many suppliers available now and offer the same.

With two triggers? Yeah, I don't think so.

 

[Twinblade]

G3 was in service for porks in 60s I believe at a time we were using bolt action LOL

If pakis had half a brain, they would weld picatinny rails on G3 and modernise them with new furniture. Cheaper than what we are spending on our procurement and they already have the tooling. They also have the advantage of their ordnance factories being under direct control of fauj.