Small arms and Light Weapons

[Gessler]

I searched for any article for it, but couldn't.. but here is a video mentioning it.

Meh I tend to take these videos with a grain a salt.

But its very likely that SIG is gonna be MCX though. I said as much almost a month ago on this forum itself.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Meh I tend to take these videos with a grain a salt.

But its very likely that SIG is gonna be MCX though. I said as much almost a month ago on this forum itself.

MCX is expensive af. No way they can offer it. They already discontinued their SiG-516 so they can’t offer it to us. Only 2 are IWI Arad and CAR-816. CAR-816 is likely to win the tender being the best AR platform for military use, if they offer an 11.5” instead of 10.5” barrel then its cherry on cake.

 

[Tactical Doge]

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[Automatic Kalashnikov]

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[Vishalreddy3]

Don't fall for the Chinese bot
He is here probably yo steal data or something

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[Indx TechStyle]

@ezsasa @ALBY @Indx TechStyle isse tihar jail ke darshan karao pls

Gone, all messages deleted too.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Gone, all messages deleted too.

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[Gessler]

MCX is expensive af. No way they can offer it. They already discontinued their SiG-516 so they can’t offer it to us.

Well they are gonna be offering something that's for sure. They've been getting lots of deals in India in recent times and no way they're gonna pass up on this juicy piece. Either its gonna be the MCX or the M400. Or, it could be a hybrid of sorts - an MCX platform but with the direct-impingement gas system taken from the TREAD/M400 series. It does not have to be an off-the-shelf product.

They did the same for the 716 contract. When we sent out requirements, a direct-impingement 716 did not exist. They created that specifically for the IA competition by taking the 716G2 platform and replacing its short-stroke piston with the DI taken from TREAD family.

SIG has turned into an extremely flexible company in recent times under Ron Cohen. It wasn't long ago when all that anyone trusted them to make was pistols - today they're winning contracts from likes of SOCOM left right & centre for all kinds of things from rifles, MGs, suppressors, optics, software, etc. Plus they seem to understand the Indian market better than most small arms makers...seem to have found some top-grade middleman (cough).

Oh and don't read too much into the prices of those items on civilian market - those retail prices become irrelevant when you're talking about a contract for 93,000 rifles. With scope for 360,000 more. Any company worth their salt will be playing very liberally with the quoted per-unit cost when looking at such a huge contract.

Only 2 are IWI Arad and CAR-816.

Do not discount Carmel either.

Also, the RFI uses the word 'folded stock'. Now that can be interpreted as both a stock that can be collapsed/retracted to reduce length for storage, or it can be a stock that HAS to be able to fold to the side. These wordings are pretty slyly inserted by IA HQ...useful points to reject or select a particular party by deciding how to interpret this (which only IA can do).

They've been playing such games with regard to several criteria points for long. Part of the reason why companies like Colt & FN are so pissed at IA that they've stopped even responding to tenders.

If IA 'decides' to interpret it as a side-folding stock, that will throw all AR-15s out. Only the Carmel & MCX will remain in such case.

CAR-816 is likely to win the tender being the best AR platform for military use,

As opposed to what? The CAR816 hasn't been used by anyone except UAE. It's the HK416 that's seen widespread usage and is considered the gold standard for Piston AR15s. Yes, the 816's designers are from H&K's original 416 team but we don't know what corners they've cut.

We cannot forget that the 816 costs about half as much as a 416. We cannot forget that the 816 was designed to be an infantry rifle, unlike 416 which was developed from ground up in collaboration with guys from Delta to be a Tier-1 SOF weapon. We cannot automatically assume they're the same exact gun & attribute all the good points of the 416 to it - it might well be like confusing a Mitsubishi Lancer with a Lancer EVO.

The MCX on the other hand has seen genuine success with SOF teams on its own merit.

 

[Harbinger]

The whole naxalism and every kind of anti state movement is now confined to money, at least in jharkhand. They're not fighting for their ideology or any religion, they're just fighting for money, the money they get from levies and opium and some other local drug (i forgot its name) smuggling. If they organise some big movement it is chiefly concerned with the money they'll take from the adivasis to "support" the movement. When they get enough they vanish. And that's the reality of naxals and every anti state activity in so-called naxal hit states. (i can go in more smaller details as observed by the police side but i can't for obvious reasons)

 

[Harbinger]

I cannot emphasize enough how absurd it is to think German Govt. is supplying these groups. That is frankly laughable. By that measure Russia must be supplying all the terrorist groups in the world considering everyone uses an AK-pattern rifle?

The HK33 family (to include the semi-auto versions) are widely license-manufactured across the world - including in Thailand & Malaysia from where arms consignments are smuggled across whole S-E Asia (and into India by such groups).

Even then, this in no way means those Govts are actively supplying - arms laws in several SE Asian states are nowhere as tight as they are in India. It's fairly easy to purchase or steal such weapons from those who have purchased. And the professionalism of the militaries of several of these states cannot be attested to either. It's not inconceivable for a local area commander to sell off a cache of weapons for money and write in their books that they were lost in a transit accident or some such.

Plus, when weapons are indeed supplied by Western govts to rebel groups (like Mujahideen in Afg in 80s) they aren't so foolish as to give them guns made in US or with 'Property of US Govt.' stamped on receiver. How they do these things is by financing the deals between the groups & suppliers of such stuff from either allied irregular units or from places like Eastern Europe ex-Soviet states.

I don't see any reasons for any foreign state supporting naxals. Naxals are confined to small number and are only in few states so they're really not effective enough to be funded by some big state trying to conspire against India for any reason

 

[FalconSlayers]

I’m okay with the MCX, But who’ll sponsor?

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Guys how feasible would a pistol chambered for the MINSAS(5.56x30mm) round be hypothetically?

 

[Tactical Doge]

Guys how feasible would a pistol chambered for the MINSAS(5.56x30mm) round be hypothetically?

If I am not mistaken
5.56×30 is an intermediate cartridge
Not a pistol calibre

 

[Johny_Baba]

Guys how feasible would a pistol chambered for the MINSAS(5.56x30mm) round be hypothetically?

Possible,why not.
In fact choyneez made 5.8x21mm from their 5.8x42mm cartridge, and use it in QSZ-92 pistol which is their de-facto service pistol and QCW-05 which is similar to Amogh in concept = their 'SMG' variant of QBZ-95.
So yeah i support the idea of 5.56x30mm MINSAS pistol, should be more or less like FN 57, and if our armed forces are going to induct JVPC in good numbers as possible replacement of those 9x19mm Sterling "Carbines" then we should also adopt a 5.56x30mm pistol to maintain commonality of ammo between the pistol and SMG ,if we could maintain commonality of magazines between the two,since JVPC uses push-button-release-pattern magazines etc that can easily be used in some custom made pistol, then it'd be even better.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Possible,why not.
In fact choyneez made 5.8x21mm from their 5.8x42mm cartridge, and use it in QSZ-92 pistol which is their de-facto service pistol and QCW-05 which is similar to Amogh in concept = their 'SMG' variant of QBZ-95.
So yeah i support the idea of 5.56x30mm MINSAS pistol, should be more or less like FN 57, and if our armed forces are going to induct JVPC in good numbers as possible replacement of those 9x19mm Sterling "Carbines" then we should also adopt a 5.56x30mm pistol to maintain commonality of ammo between the pistol and SMG ,if we could maintain commonality of magazines between the two,since JVPC uses push-button-release-pattern magazines etc that can easily be used in some custom made pistol, then it'd be even better.

That’s what I was thinking about.

 

[FalconSlayers]

What is the cost of 11.5” MCX?

 

[Marliii]

What is the cost of 11.5” MCX?

Civilian cost is not gonna be the one for the carbine competition

 

[Marliii]

7.62x51 uncontrollable?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

A good muzzle device will tame the recoil even in Sig 716.

 

[Tactical Doge]

What is the cost of 11.5” MCX?

Around 2300 USD