Small arms and Light Weapons

When picking a gun, what would your primary consideration be?


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Killbot

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OFT should also come up with a LMG variant of TAR based on Arsenal RPK version (7.62*39 caliber) like this:

View attachment 72440

This will be a huge force multiplier to our CAPFs and state forces
Nah, they can just make a belt fed LMG. Like a Pika. It is essentially an AKM upper turned upside down and feed system is modified. Plus, 5.56mm is way better for LMG role as ot is lighter, enabling the carrying of more ammo. CRPF already use a mixture of X-95 and AKs so I don't think there'll be a logistical issue beyond what is already there.
 

Flying Dagger

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It is old photo. This uniform camouflage was canceled back in 2015. I repeat. There is a license, but they are not released for internal consumption. This is not because of the large stocks of Soviet weapons. The sniper SVD was replaced by the Ukrainian rifles Z-10, Z-15 - because they are better.
Z 10 Z15 , the AR -15 inspired and essentially different from an AK. How many have you inducted so far in last couple of years ?

And your special forces do have Israeli Firearms from Galil Ace Tavor to Negev. I don't understand your denial of the obvious.

If they aren't license building for them than whom ?

Israel has outsourced manufacturing to Ukraine ?
 

Akim

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Z 10 Z15 , the AR -15 inspired and essentially different from an AK. How many have you inducted so far in last couple of years ?

And your special forces do have Israeli Firearms from Galil Ace Tavor to Negev. I don't understand your denial of the obvious.

If they aren't license building for them than whom ?

Israel has outsourced manufacturing to Ukraine ?
This is not denial. I didn't dispute which system is better. These are the conclusions that are based on the experience of 6 years of war. At the beginning, they used everything that shoots. Therefore, you can see both the Maxim machine gun and the MG-34. At the beginning of the war, the special forces actually used Fort-221 (Tavor 5.45), but during operation, the weapon turned out to be rather capricious. Therefore, we returned to the Kalashnikov system. The system itself is not devoid of a margin of modernization, so it cannot be denied, only on the basis of conclusions about the AKM.
 

Flying Dagger

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This is not denial. I didn't dispute which system is better. These are the conclusions that are based on the experience of 6 years of war. At the beginning, they used everything that shoots. Therefore, you can see both the Maxim machine gun and the MG-34. At the beginning of the war, the special forces actually used Fort-221 (Tavor 5.45), but during operation, the weapon turned out to be rather capricious. Therefore, we returned to the Kalashnikov system. The system itself is not devoid of a margin of modernization, so it cannot be denied, only on the basis of conclusions about the AKM.
https://static.espreso.tv/uploads/a...6058_953173341414693_326877439535256152_n.jpg
In your previous post you outright denied the use of Israeli weapon despite license building it. Anyway..

Galil is an AK derivative so if you have returned to Kalashnikov then Galil is there..

Regarding the AR 15 derivative , Z -15 you have been planning to replace AK with please do provide info how many you have inducted so far..

And how would an AR derivative fare in your climate.. vs an AK.
 

Akim

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In your previous post you outright denied the use of Israeli weapon despite license building it. Anyway..

Galil is an AK derivative so if you have returned to Kalashnikov then Galil is there..

Regarding the AR 15 derivative , Z -15 you have been planning to replace AK with please do provide info how many you have inducted so far..

And how would an AR derivative fare in your climate.. vs an AK.
Not AK, but SVD. These are three rifles per platoon. How much is produced - there is no open information, but it often comes across in photographs.
I have not denied the use of Israeli weapons. I said that now it is not used. Hence the conclusion: So it does not suit us. It can be seen more often at parades than in active exploitation.
 

shuvo@y2k10

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Nah, they can just make a belt fed LMG. Like a Pika. It is essentially an AKM upper turned upside down and feed system is modified. Plus, 5.56mm is way better for LMG role as ot is lighter, enabling the carrying of more ammo. CRPF already use a mixture of X-95 and AKs so I don't think there'll be a logistical issue beyond what is already there.
PKT is already license produced at OFT, and so is Bren. Customer is only army. However for the police forces, getting 7.62*54 ammo of Pika is even more difficult. Since they are already inducting AK based rifles like Ghatak and TAR, and Insas is rarely ordered nowadays. hence a LMG chambered on 7.62*39 mm like RPK is essential for the state forces, for logistical reason rather than Insas LMG. Insas LMG is already there and rarely ordered by state police forces. Based on their demand, OFB has also come out with a carbine version of TAR. Also, as some members pointed that that state police forces are looking for a less bulky weapon compared to Bren.

Regarding CAPFs there is demand for belt fed MMG of 7.62*39 mm caliber for which they have procured some FN Minimi. In future, those orders will most likely go to newly developed OFB 7.62*51 mm belt fed machine gun. In CAPFs also, the current trend is junking the Insas in favour of AK pattern rifles. Hence something on the lines of RPF LMG in 7.62*39 mm makes sense as a squard support weapon. A TAR based LMG will be a preffered choice, since CAPFs are indiucting TAR a big way. They will also induct TAR carbine for sure, in future.
 

Flying Dagger

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Not AK, but SVD. These are three rifles per platoon. How much is produced - there is no open information, but it often comes across in photographs.
I have not denied the use of Israeli weapons. I said that now it is not used. Hence the conclusion: So it does not suit us. It can be seen more often at parades than in active exploitation.
I won't go further into it but Galil is AK derivative, better built and you conveniently trashed it in the very first post and praised Aks 🙂

May be your army is pretty rich that they have trashed those new rifles and prefer old AKs.

Anyway I won't derail the thread further on this as it's not an issue for me.
 

Killbot

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PKT is already license produced at OFT, and so is Bren. Customer is only army. However for the police forces, getting 7.62*54 ammo of Pika is even more difficult. Since they are already inducting AK based rifles like Ghatak and TAR, and Insas is rarely ordered nowadays. hence a LMG chambered on 7.62*39 mm like RPK is essential for the state forces, for logistical reason rather than Insas LMG. Insas LMG is already there and rarely ordered by state police forces. Based on their demand, OFB has also come out with a carbine version of TAR. Also, as some members pointed that that state police forces are looking for a less bulky weapon compared to Bren.

Regarding CAPFs there is demand for belt fed MMG of 7.62*39 mm caliber for which they have procured some FN Minimi. In future, those orders will most likely go to newly developed OFB 7.62*51 mm belt fed machine gun. In CAPFs also, the current trend is junking the Insas in favour of AK pattern rifles. Hence something on the lines of RPF LMG in 7.62*39 mm makes sense as a squard support weapon. A TAR based LMG will be a preffered choice, since CAPFs are indiucting TAR a big way. They will also induct TAR carbine for sure, in future.
I meant that a 5.56mm on the lines on the Pika is designed. Plus 7.62mm is shit choice for LMG. NATO, Soviet or Rimmed Russian. A LMG is a light support weapon, which means it needs to lay down suppressing fire in large volumes. Not possible with 7.62mm due to both low rate of fire and weight of ammo which makes it hard to carry enough ammo (maybe 500-600 rds) to be effective. Why does anyone need an TAR style LMG? Also how did PKT come into the picture??
 

Vishalreddy3

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Now can we discuss what rifles are better alternatives for FN SCAR for SFF????
WE already discussed it in Special Forces thread but not in detail
 

Killbot

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The Nightforce ATACR 1-8x, Vortex Razor Gen III and SIG TANGO6 1-6x are better options IMO. The first two would be the best.


Their 1x magnification configuration is quite close to that of a proper red dot. Extremely important for CQB.

Sig TANGO6 is going to be the optic on US Army SDMR and eventually even M4s.



This (9HR) channel is the best gun channel out there btw. It doesn't get better than Jack and Henry.
 

Vishalreddy3

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Another very controversial option is the sig 552 or 550 series in general!!!! Its touted as a "Law Enforcement" rifle and not a military one and I fully agree, ergonomically is not militaristic in nature but nevertheless very capable one. Already in use by NSG and various police forces in India for naxal ops
 

Vishalreddy3

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The Nightforce ATACR 1-8x, Vortex Razor Gen III and SIG TANGO6 1-6x are better options IMO. The first two would be the best.


Their 1x magnification configuration is quite close to that of a proper red dot. Extremely important for CQB.

Sig TANGO6 is going to be the optic on US Army SDMR and eventually even M4s.



This (9HR) channel is the best gun channel out there btw. It doesn't get better than Jack and Henry.
1-8x is next level!!! Can it be used in a DMR role by modifying FN FAL??
 

Killbot

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1-8x is next level!!! Can it be used in a DMR role by modifying FN FAL??
FN FAL? No... The gun itself isn't accurate enough (3.5-4 MOA) with ball ammo.. Maybe 2-2.5 MOA with match ammo. A DMR should be less than 1.5 MOA, at least. We have Dragunov and Sig 716i that are capable of that accuracy with match ammo. Sig 716i should be effective out to 600-700m with 1-8 or 1-10 optic. 800m with Dragunov.

The Sig can print sub MOA groups with match grade .308 ammo btw.
 

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