Small arms and Light Weapons

[ArgonPrime]

Decorating the sky! Good one!

It just came out of my head somehow.

The ONLY reason full auto fire is done in training is to teach men how to be aggressive in their grip and shouldering.
That it.

I can understand.

 

[Gessler]

Worst bloody idea! A 5.56mm rifle without automatic mode and just semi or burst only. Combine that with 20 round flimsy magazines.

Then a 5.56mm 'LMG' with no belt fed option, just 30 round clips!

Pretty much the same strategy as used by the Russians. AK-74M and RPK-74M.

Albeit with 10 rounds less in our case.

IA draws a LOT of organizational & procurement decisions by observing/following the Russians, has been doing so since Cold War years. Why are you surprised?

 

[binayak95]

Too many PUBG commandos these days.


Good one, had forgot to mention this in my reply.


Yep.

By the way, I've been meaning to ask this from a long time now, what'd be the standard combat load out of a rifleman in the Indian Army during an active war situation??Like how many 5.56 rounds of ammo he would be issued with??Any idea??

Depends on the kind of ops. A guy on cordon duty in a CI op expects to be there for the long haul, carries 5-6 mags.

LRRP? 10-11.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Pretty much the same strategy as used by the Russians. AK-74M and RPK-74M.

Albeit with 10 rounds less in our case.

IA draws a LOT of organizational & procurement decisions by observing/following the Russians, has been doing so since Cold War years. Why are you surprised?

RPK 74M has a drum fed 45 - 97 round capacity. This allows for it to be used like the M249 SAW.

https://www.rt.com/russia/451836-new-russian-machine-gun/

 

[Gessler]

RPK 74M has a drum fed 45 - 97 round capacity. This allows for it to be used like the M249 SAW.

99% of RPKs in operational use do not have anything of the sort. It's an option.

Standard loadout is a 40-round magazine.

But that is irrelevant considering it's equally easy to come up with a 40-round mag for INSAS LMG, or a drum mag for that matter. There's nothing stopping us - save for the fact IA never felt a need for such a mag.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Irrelevant and obvious to anyone with even the most rudimentary understandings of how modern firearms work.


Complete garbage based upon CoD logic and stupid hollywood war movie tropes.
In reality, a 6-9 round burst is only good at suppression if rounds land within 1-3 meters of a target. Between British Ministry of Defence studies, Canadians, US Marines, and even the US Army, they've all pretty much agreed at this point after conducting extensive studies that a regular bullet, regardless of volume of fire, that doesn't land inside that range has no ability to suppression. That's the issue.

When it comes to machine guns, the problem is that a proper 6-9 round burst takes under about a second to fire (850 rpm/60 s=14 rps). If its all aimed at the same place, not purposely traversing or searching, then the burst pattern generally walks upwards. What that means in terms of effects on target, is only the first, maybe the second round actually comes near a target location, and the rest decorate the sky. So the answer is repeated single shots, or very short bursts from a weapon that barely recoils.

However, just spraying in the general direction of the enemy with a machine gun, which is what most consider suppression, is not. Its just a mix of posturing, noise, and wasting ammo.


No shit Captain Obvious, what would we do without you endowing us with this top secret inside information about advanced squad tactics.


What a load of garbage!!Again, this is based not in reality but long running stupid war movie tropes!!In reality, no soldier can hold an M-16 (or any other rifle regardless of the caliber) on the target for any meaningful amount of time, even while firing from a prone position and would waste a lot of ammunition, which could end up costing you dearly if you get involved in a long, drawn out fire fight. An M-16 has a cyclical rate of fire of over 800 rounds per minute, and you could empty a 30 round clip in a mere2 seconds!!
After the Vietnam war, an US Army study found out that all but 3 of the rounds within a burst were wasted, since the barrel would drift up and to the left.That's the sole reason why the M16A1 was replaced by the A2 variant you bloody mong!!





More bullshit!!While it's true that the barrels (along with trigger assembly, extractor spring, recoil buffer, barrel chamber, magazine, and bolt as well as some ergonomic modifications) were changed to better maintain accuracy and zero while withstanding high volumes of fire that simply doesn't translate to US Army soldiers spraying their carbines in full auto mode all the time like a bunch of rabbles!!For the nth time, you don't need to fire in auto to achieve a sustained high volume of fire!!The world doesn't work like in FPS video games, kid.
In reality, the US Army and USMC grunts are not only not trained to fire their personal rifles in full auto mode in the ranges, it's in fact, actively discouraged and for very good reasons which I've mentioned already.
Get out with this steaming pile of horse shit and stop misleading the readers.

1. LMGs have an acceptable deviation in MoA wrt rifles to allow for better suppression. Higher volume of fire allows for better and increased suppression. In battle you get less chance to pick targets around the 300 m mark. This is exactly where the 5.56 and the 7.62x51 trade terminal ballistics you dumb fuck!

2. LMGs fire in an arc to ensure maximum suppression.

This creates a buffer zone where you pin down the enemy and move to neutralize them. Unless you have people running towards LMGs, the fire is used for rapid maneuver warfare.

3. You inbred fuck! The M4A1 is primarily geared for compact automatic fire to give a degree of firepower on the go for troops. Burst mode is absolutely useless in CQB. You use semi-auto in anything more then 100m to get better grouped shots.

Most engagements occur at 200m or less. In urban ops, you have a very short response time to bring your weapon to bear, aim and fire at a threat at 15 yards. Here hip fire based on M4A1 is considered the best. M16A1 was replaced by A2 to add the forward assist, heavier barrel for sustained automatic fire and a non triangular barrel shroud for a better grip. Get your facts right!

4. This is a report of the G36 rifle after sustained firefights against Muzzie Pigs in Afghanistan.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/04/03/the-g36-controversy-intensifies/

According to BILD information, the German Armed Forces Inspection Office inspected a total of 89 G36 rifles. The result: with EVERY weapon, according to the test report, problems arose in a hot shot condition!

In an internal submission to the Minister of Defense states: "All previously studied G36 show a change in the middle meeting point in the hot shot state that an enemy can not be safely fought at a distance of 200 meters."

https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/...kaputten-gewehren-23833380.bild.html#fromWall

The US M4 rifle is known to suffer from similar problems as well!

“My weapon was overheating,” another soldier said. “I had shot about 12 magazines by this point already and it had only been about half an hour or so into the fight.” In other words, the soldier fired approximately 360 rounds in 30 minutes. That’s 14 rounds a minute—one every four seconds.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/back-2008-us-armys-m4-rifle-failed-badly-tough-shootout-44867

This led to a change in barrels being procured for the M4.

The U.S. Army's M4 carbines are in the process of receiving new, thicker barrels for better weapon performance if used in automatic mode.

The barrels in the M4-1A configuration of the rifle weigh 7.74 pounds -- compared to the M-4's 7.46 pounds -- and absorb more heat. The weight comparisons include the back-up iron sight, forward pistol grip, empty magazine and sling, the Army reported.

"Soldiers need automatic capability while providing suppression fires during fire and movement," said Command Sgt. Maj. Doug Maddi, Program Executive Office Soldier, Fort Belvoir, Va.

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/20...ing-M4-rifles-with-new-barrels/6561401295216/

Either put up or shut up noob! Unless you're a Paki ****** trolling here, some basic prerequisite knowledge is necessary to post here.

 

[vampyrbladez]

99% of RPKs in operational use do not have anything of the sort. It's an option.

Standard loadout is a 40-round magazine.

But that is irrelevant considering it's equally easy to come up with a 40-round mag for INSAS LMG, or a drum mag for that matter. There's nothing stopping us - save for the fact IA never felt a need for such a mag.

The newer version (RPK 16) that is being tested for the Russians explicitly mentions a 96 round drum.

According to the Kalashnikov Group, the RPK-16 is fitted with 95-round drum and 45-round magazines, the weapon can also be fed from the organic 30-round magazine of the Kalashnikov AK-74 5.45 mm assault rifle.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/feb...sts_kalashnikov_rpk-16_light_machine_gun.html

Even the Indian Army has a requirement for high volume of fire in their new LMG RFI. There is allowance of upto 3 MOA in the accuracy requirement.This is perfectly achievable in single shot mode.

https://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/RFI/539/RFI INF8 LMG 311017.pdf

 

[Gessler]

The newer version (RPK 16) that is being tested for the Russians explicitly mentions a 96 round drum.

That gun isn't in service - it doesn't discount the decades of use RPKs (and INSAS LMGs) saw with 30/40 round mags.

Plus - its not like drum mag options did not exist for the older (in service) RPKs. It's just when it comes down to it, very few soldiers in our respective armies are actually comfortable with carrying ~100 rounds on the weapon 24x7x365, if they have the option.

So, once the RPK-16 does make it to service, rest assured it will be heavily used with 30/40-round mags, just like its predecessors.

Even the Indian Army has a requirement for high volume of fire in their new LMG RFI.

Considering our new standard calibre for frontline infantry is 7.62x51mm (and squad LMG requires ammo commonality)...and considering how many magazine-fed 7.62 Nato LMGs with 30/40 round capacities are out there...which is none...it's not like it was a choice, rather the lack of it.

It's damn hard to find a 30-round mag in 7.62 Nato even for established actions like AR-10, they just don't come by. Once we had decided on the calibre, the feed type (belt-fed) was pretty much the default choice...as in the only option available.

 

[vampyrbladez]

That gun isn't in service - it doesn't discount the decades of use RPKs (and INSAS LMGs) saw with 30/40 round mags.

Plus - its not like drum mag options did not exist for the older (in service) RPKs. It's just when it comes down to it, very few soldiers in our respective armies are actually comfortable with carrying ~100 rounds on the weapon 24x7x365, if they have the option.

So, once the RPK-16 does make it to service, rest assured it will be heavily used with 30/40-round mags, just like its predecessors.

Let me put it this way. For every 40 round magazine you carry, you add the weight of an additional magazine to the kit of the infantryman. Today the weight of the kit varies between 120 - 150/160 pounds if you count weapon, BPJ, NVG, rucksack, MOLLE carrier, helmet, ammo,etc. Also the act of switching magazines in the middle of a firefight gives the enemy a break in the suppression to maneuver towards you.

Why not simply have 2-3 100 round drums in your kit? You get a massive amount of firepower and the drums put together will still weigh less than the empty magazines. Heck, you don't even need a metallic drum. Simply use a canvas or nylon bag with a feed lip tacked on top of it. US has these kits called 'nutsacks' :biggrin2: for their M249s!

https://www.quora.com/How-much-ammo-does-automatic-rifleman-equiped-with-M249-carry

Considering our new standard calibre for frontline infantry is 7.62x51mm (and squad LMG requires ammo commonality)...and considering how many magazine-fed 7.62 Nato LMGs with 30/40 round capacities are out there...which is none...it's not like it was a choice, rather the lack of it.

It's damn hard to find a 30-round mag in 7.62 Nato even for established actions like AR-10, they just don't come by. Once we had decided on the calibre, the feed type (belt-fed) was pretty much the default choice...as in the only option available.

Our new standard calibre for our infantry is 7.62x39 mm for the new AK 203 rifles and their upcoming variants. There are all manner of clips, magazines, drums and belt fed clamps for this calibre.

The 7.62x51 mm will be used as DMR/Assaulter weaponry in our squads. The ammo will be shared by the Sig 716 and the RFP LMG (IMI Negev or OFB GPMG).

 

[Gessler]

Let me put it this way. For every 40 round magazine you carry, you add the weight of an additional magazine to the kit of the infantryman. Today the weight of the kit varies between 120 - 150/160 pounds if you count weapon, BPJ, NVG, rucksack, MOLLE carrier, helmet, ammo,etc. Also the act of switching magazines in the middle of a firefight gives the enemy a break in the suppression to maneuver towards you.

Why not simply have 2-3 100 round drums in your kit? You get a massive amount of firepower and the drums put together will still weigh less than the empty magazines. Heck, you don't even need a metallic drum. Simply use a canvas or nylon bag with a feed lip tacked on top of it. US has these kits called 'nutsacks' :biggrin2: for their M249s!

https://www.quora.com/How-much-ammo-does-automatic-rifleman-equiped-with-M249-carry

Carrying a 100-round drum of 7.62 Nato in hand (which weighs about 4 kgs, on top of the gun itself which weighs about 8-11 kgs approx depending on model, total 12-15 kgs in hand) is way harder than carrying it on the body.

It's much easier with the lighter 5.56 rounds which is what US Army LMGs use, but we are past the point of using that calibre.

Even the US GPMG (M240B) is rarely used with anything more than a 50-round pouch or belt when used in a mobile application. Equipping a squad LMG with 100-rounds of 7.62N and telling the gunner (who until now is used to a 30-round 5.56 mag) to run around quickly changing positions which is what a squad gunner is expected to, simply isn't easy bro.

I've a feeling IA is in for some hard lessons in coming days with our insistence on 7.62 LMG.

Our new standard calibre for our infantry is 7.62x39 mm for the new AK 203 rifles and their upcoming variants. There are all manner of clips, magazines, drums and belt fed clamps for this calibre.

The 7.62x51 mm will be used as DMR/Assaulter weaponry in our squads. The ammo will be shared by the Sig 716 and the RFP LMG (IMI Negev or OFB GPMG).

Sections of troops under Northern & North-Western commands (principally) will be fully equipped with SIG 716s and 7.62 LMGs only. Those in other commands, with AK-203 and 7.62 LMG only. Although IA also wants at least 1 (section commander) user of a yet-undecided 5.56 carbine.

SIGs & AK-203s in the same Section will not be the norm.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Carrying a 100-round drum of 7.62 Nato in hand (which weighs about 4 kgs, on top of the gun itself which weighs about 8-11 kgs approx depending on model, total 12-15 kgs in hand) is way harder than carrying it on the body.

It's much easier with the lighter 5.56 rounds which is what US Army LMGs use, but we are past the point of using that calibre.

Simply use the cloth/nylon ammo bags. There goes the drum weight issue. Distribute 7.62x51 mm rounds between the Sig 716 and LMG users. That alone reduces the weight per infantryman.

Even the US GPMG (M240B) is rarely used with anything more than a 50-round pouch or belt when used in a mobile application. Equipping a squad LMG with 100-rounds of 7.62N and telling the gunner (who until now is used to a 30-round 5.56 mag) to run around quickly changing positions which is what a squad gunner is expected to, simply isn't easy bro.

I've a feeling IA is in for some hard lessons in coming days with our insistence on 7.62 LMG.

We need a better regimen and nutrition for our frontline troops then. Using it excessively during wargames and company level exercises will help in familiarisation of tactics.

Sections of troops under Northern & North-Western commands (principally) will be fully equipped with SIG 716s and 7.62 LMGs only. Those in other commands, with AK-203 and 7.62 LMG only. Although IA also wants at least 1 (section commander) user of a yet-undecided 5.56 carbine.

SIGs & AK-203s in the same Section will not be the norm.

Any sources to back this claim?

I believe that in a 10 man section, 2 X SiG 716 for DMR/Assault role ; 1 X LMG (OFB GPMG or IMI Negev)/Carl Gustav M3 ; 5 X AK 203 ; 2 X CAR 816 (Section Commander + Radio Operator) is the way to go for modularity, firepower and flexibility of operations.

 

[binayak95]

1. LMGs have an acceptable deviation in MoA wrt rifles to allow for better suppression. Higher volume of fire allows for better and increased suppression. In battle you get less chance to pick targets around the 300 m mark. This is exactly where the 5.56 and the 7.62x51 trade terminal ballistics you dumb fuck!

2. LMGs fire in an arc to ensure maximum suppression.

This creates a buffer zone where you pin down the enemy and move to neutralize them. Unless you have people running towards LMGs, the fire is used for rapid maneuver warfare.

3. You inbred fuck! The M4A1 is primarily geared for compact automatic fire to give a degree of firepower on the go for troops. Burst mode is absolutely useless in CQB. You use semi-auto in anything more then 100m to get better grouped shots.

Most engagements occur at 200m or less. In urban ops, you have a very short response time to bring your weapon to bear, aim and fire at a threat at 15 yards. Here hip fire based on M4A1 is considered the best. M16A1 was replaced by A2 to add the forward assist, heavier barrel for sustained automatic fire and a non triangular barrel shroud for a better grip. Get your facts right!

4. This is a report of the G36 rifle after sustained firefights against Muzzie Pigs in Afghanistan.

View attachment 37494 View attachment 37495

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/04/03/the-g36-controversy-intensifies/



https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/...kaputten-gewehren-23833380.bild.html#fromWall

The US M4 rifle is known to suffer from similar problems as well!



https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/back-2008-us-armys-m4-rifle-failed-badly-tough-shootout-44867

This led to a change in barrels being procured for the M4.





https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/20...ing-M4-rifles-with-new-barrels/6561401295216/

Either put up or shut up noob! Unless you're a Paki ****** trolling here, some basic prerequisite knowledge is necessary to post here.

Are you aware of what you're posting or are you just copy pasting randomly.

LMGs fire in an arc? umm, no? Arc means 700 m and above engagement - GPMGs and MMGs that are enplaced can fire like that - not squad based LMGs.

you also claim that modern combat takes place at 200ms, fine then where does arc fire come in?

Moronic much?

Its almost as if you've never heard of ACOG sights or variable zoom sights.

And as far as M4A1s being geared for AUTOMATIC fire - NOBODY does full auto fire unless they are in a bind and need to suppress someone. EVERY soldier is trained to fire semi in default. Full auto fire or even rapid fire is a role reserved for LMGs. M4A1s came about to make the rifle easier to use in urban combat - and they in use ALONGSIDE M16s to this day.

There is NO difference technically between M16 and the M4, both are AR15 platforms using semi DI mechanism for cycling rounds. Both have identical lower receivers as well. The only difference is the trigger group.
Hip firing M4s? Proper CoD player aren't you?

And you jumped from short stroke gas piston G36s to the M4 - how? The M4s and M16s have seen decades of service since Vietnam and have been finetuned to the point of perfection. A generalised statement paints you as the noob/buffoon that you claim others to be.

 

[binayak95]

Simply use the cloth/nylon ammo bags. There goes the drum weight issue. Distribute 7.62x51 mm rounds between the Sig 716 and LMG users. That alone reduces the weight per infantryman.



We need a better regimen and nutrition for our frontline troops then. Using it excessively during wargames and company level exercises will help in familiarisation of tactics.



Any sources to back this claim?

I believe that in a 10 man section, 2 X SiG 716 for DMR/Assault role ; 1 X LMG (OFB GPMG or IMI Negev)/Carl Gustav M3 ; 5 X AK 203 ; 2 X CAR 816 (Section Commander + Radio Operator) is the way to go for modularity, firepower and flexibility of operations.

Have you given thought to the problem of fouling when using belt feds? An open chain running from the ammo bag/drum to the chamber is asking trouble.

And a 10 man section with 7.62x51, 7.62x39 and 5.56? Add 338 Lapuas and 12 gauge to it for more variety why dont you? (not to mention 9mm sidearms, 40mm UBGs, the Carl Gustavs 84mm rounds)

And I thought IA was bad with logistics.

 

[Gessler]

Simply use the cloth/nylon ammo bags. There goes the drum weight issue.

Just the rounds themselves (not counting weight of belt link) weigh over 2.5 kgs...that's nearly the weight of an empty AR-15.

Distribute 7.62x51 mm rounds between the Sig 716 and LMG users. That alone reduces the weight per infantryman.

You can't. The rounds the MG gunner has to use are in a belt-link. The ones the riflemen have to use are loaded in a 20-round magazine which can only fit in the SIG. The riflemen with their 4-6 mags of 7.62N are already carrying a hefty load.

We need a better regimen and nutrition for our frontline troops then. Using it excessively during wargames and company level exercises will help in familiarisation of tactics.

The average American soldier has higher muscle mass than the average Indian soldier. If the US troops cannot carry a 100-round belt fed MG on squad level, neither can we*.

* It's not to say we cannot carry it per se, but that it will entail tremendous fatigue & impact on stamina. Within couple years of going through with the 7.62 LMG, mark my words - bad field reports will follow from all corners of service.

Any sources to back this claim?

Ask anyone.

I believe that in a 10 man section, 2 X SiG 716 for DMR ; 1 X LMG (OFB GPMG or IMI Negev)/Carl Gustav M3 ; 5 X AK 203 ; 2 X CAR 816 (Section Commander + Radio Operator) is the way to go for modularity, firepower and flexibility of operations.

4 different primary weapon ammo types in one section? That's a recipe for disaster right there.

EDIT: And no, SIGs are not coming in as DMRs but as pure assault rifles. If we wanted DMRs, we'd have bought the SIG 716G2 DMR variant (like NSG did), not the SIG 716G2 Patrol variant.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Are you aware of what you're posting or are you just copy pasting randomly.

LMGs fire in an arc? umm, no? Arc means 700 m and above engagement - GPMGs and MMGs that are enplaced can fire like that - not squad based LMGs.

you also claim that modern combat takes place at 200ms, fine then where does arc fire come in?

Dumb fuck! LMGs today are scoped at 1000m. This is from the Indian Army LMG RFI.

Optical Sights. Telescopic sight with 4 x magnification. It should facilitate engagement of human target at 1000m and should have suitable reticle pattern for judging distance and engagement at all intermediary ranges.

The area beyond 200 m and upto 450 m is covered by the LMG. Using aimed bursts and taking into account the curvature of the earth, you can place shot up to 700m fairly reliable using suppression.

Around 200m, simply use 7.62x39 or other intermediary calibre which are effective upto 300m. This creates an overlapping effective fire zone.

And as far as M4A1s being geared for AUTOMATIC fire - NOBODY does full auto fire unless they are in a bind and need to suppress someone. EVERY soldier is trained to fire semi in default. Full auto fire or even rapid fire is a role reserved for LMGs. M4A1s came about to make the rifle easier to use in urban combat - and they are still in use today.

M4A1s have replaced the M16A4 because the latter proved inadequate for automatic role. Get your facts right.

There is NO difference technically between M16 and the M4, both are AR15 platforms using semi DI mechanism for cycling rounds. Both have identical lower receivers as well. The only difference is the trigger group.
Hip firing M4s? Proper CoD player aren't you?

Listen moron. Don't change the topic. You were comparing M16A4 aka Burst Fire seared AR 15s to M4A1 aka Automatic/Semi seared AR 15s. Lower receiver of a civilian AR 15 and a military AR 15 is definitely different wrt to the entire sear/cam mechanism.

Hip firing is what you go for if you have less time to bring your gun upto bear. This is useful when engaging multiple targets upto 15 yards. Unless you have your battle buddy to back you up and you have you gun to bear in advance, your reaction time slower.

Only Pakis use COD comparisons on PDF. Are you one? :biggrin2:

And you jumped from short stroke gas piston G36s to the M4 - how? The M4s and M16s have seen decades of service since Vietnam and have been finetuned to the point of perfection. A generalised statement paints you as the noob/buffoon that you claim others to be.

G 36 have free floating barrels. M4 too can be free floated for higher match grade accuracy. Sustained fire will damage the alignment unless you have heavier thicker barrels. The same case was seen on both guns.

The DI system ensures that a single magazine will cake the entire chamber. That's why HK416, SiG 516 have short stroke pistons. There's a reason the forward assist exists in the AR 15 from the M16A2 onwards.

Again read up before you spam bullshit on this thread.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Have you given thought to the problem of fouling when using belt feds? An open chain running from the ammo bag/drum to the chamber is asking trouble.

And a 10 man section with 7.62x51, 7.62x39 and 5.56? Add 338 Lapuas and 12 gauge to it for more variety why dont you? (not to mention 9mm sidearms, 40mm UBGs, the Carl Gustavs 84mm rounds)

And I thought IA was bad with logistics.

1. So we should scrap all MMGs, HMGs and use WW2 style Brens only. What a bullshiter!

2. A USMC platoon has the M240B,M249, M4A1, M110, EBR 14, 40mm UBGs, 9mm sidearms, Carl Gustavs/SMAW, 12 gauge breacher shotguns for urban ops. Are they fools? I am not even counting separate special ammo types.

You use what you have and what you need.

7.62x39 - Standard Infantry Rifle

7.62x51 - DMR/Assaulter/LMG

5.56x45 - Officer/Radioman

 

[vampyrbladez]

Just the rounds themselves (not counting weight of belt link) weigh over 2.5 kgs...that's nearly the weight of an empty AR-15.

You need to punch LVL III+ - IV Chinese and Russian plates you use heavier rounds. There is a reason why the 6.8mm is in such vogue today in the US Army and USMC.

You can't. The rounds the MG gunner has to use are in a belt-link. The ones the riflemen have to use are loaded in a 20-round magazine which can only fit in the SIG. The riflemen with their 4-6 mags of 7.62N are already carrying a hefty load.

Carrying an extra ammo canister helps immensely. There was the position of an assistant MG gunner some time ago for this very reason.

The average American soldier has higher muscle mass than the average Indian soldier. If the US troops cannot carry a 100-round belt fed MG on squad level, neither can we*.

So you are telling me that this is simply photoshop?

4 different primary weapon ammo types in one section? That's a recipe for disaster right there.

EDIT: And no, SIGs are not coming in as DMRs but as pure assault rifles. If we wanted DMRs, we'd have bought the SIG 716G2 DMR variant (like NSG did), not the SIG 716G2 Patrol variant.

7.62x39 ; 7.62x51 ; 5.56x45 ; That's what the army RFIs and RFPs say. If it were up to me I'd simply replace the 5.56x45 and 7.62x39 with the 6.8x43.

The SiG 716G2 DMR variant has a longer, better rifled (1/8th twist) barrel. Rest of the gun is simply a short piston AR 10. Nowhere in the company statement is there any mention of a specific variant. Could simply be a case of a few DMRs with the bulk being patrol. Again a barrel change is all it simply takes.

SIG SAUER Announces Over 72,400 SIG Rifles to be Deployed with Indian Army
Published Date: 02/13/2019


NEWINGTON, N.H., (February 13, 2019) – SIG SAUER, Inc. is pleased to announce the Government of India, Ministry of Defense has officially contracted with SIG SAUER to build and deliver 72,400 SIG716 rifles for its frontline infantry soldiers. The Indian Army, the second largest standing army in the world with more than 1.2 million active troops, is currently undergoing a comprehensive firearms procurement process to advance the capabilities of the Indian Army’s infantrymen.

“This is the first large firearms procurement of the Indian Government in decades, and the explicit mission for this tender was to modernize the infantry troopers of the Indian Army with the best rifle available,” began Ron Cohen, President and CEO, SIG SAUER, Inc. “We competed in an open tender with small arms manufacturers from around the world. The SIG716 rifle underwent a comprehensive and exhaustive testing and evaluation process where it outperformed the competition, and was ultimately chosen, and met all the criteria, as the best rifle to modernize the Indian Army.”

The SIG716 is an enhanced AR platform featuring a 16-inch barrel, M-LOK™ handguard, and a 6-position telescoping stock.

“The global importance of this contract for SIG SAUER is far reaching based on the size, location, and economic strength of India in the global market. We are very proud, and honored that the SIG716 was chosen for use by the fighting forces of the Indian Army, and we are looking forward to developing a strong partnership with India’s Ministry of Defense,” added Cohen.

SIG SAUER will build the SIG716 rifles for the Indian Army in New Hampshire.

https://www.sigsauer.com/press-rele...0-sig-rifles-to-be-deployed-with-indian-army/

 

[binayak95]

Listen moron. Don't change the topic. You were comparing M16A4 aka Burst Fire seared AR 15s to M4A1 aka Automatic/Semi seared AR 15s. Lower receiver of a civilian AR 15 and a military AR 15 is definitely different wrt to the entire sear/cam mechanism.

Hip firing is what you go for if you have less time to bring your gun upto bear. This is useful when engaging multiple targets upto 15 yards. Unless you have your battle buddy to back you up and you have you gun to bear in advance, your reaction time slower.

Only Pakis use COD comparisons on PDF. Are you one? :biggrin2:



G 36 have free floating barrels. M4 too can be free floated for higher match grade accuracy. Sustained fire will damage the alignment unless you have heavier thicker barrels. The same case was seen on both guns.

The DI system ensures that a single magazine will cake the entire chamber. That's why HK416, SiG 516 have short stroke pistons. There's a reason the forward assist exists in the AR 15 from the M16A2 onwards.

Again read up before you spam bullshit on this thread.

One by one:

The M16A4 trigger group has FOUR positions:

1. Safe
2. Semi
3. TRB
4. Full auto.

Hip Firing:
Have you ever carried an assault rifle, in its sling, with a full pack on your back? I have. It takes a second at most to bring it to your eye relief level - IF - you have been trained with it and have used it on the range regularly. One would expect soldiers to qualify these preconditions.
And, HAVE YOU EVER SHOT an assault rifle? Clearly, NO. Hip firing? This is beyond ludicrous - the recoil is significant when youre prone with the rifle properly seated against your shoulder and pulled back tight with your forearm. Hip fire that and you'll kill your squadmates.

Asshole - the service M4s are NOT free floated. The G36 suffered from deviating point of impacts under combat conditions - yes, HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT translate to a completely different system?
What kind of deduction is this?

Cake the chamber in one magazine? are you nuts? The AR15 is a semi DI system, gas does NOT enter the chamber directly, it acts on a extension of bolt carrier group and not directly on the bolt.
Why were short stroke gas pistons brought about? Because the AR15 cannot be cut down to less than 13 inches barrel length. The semi DI system means you wont generate enough pressure to reliably cycle the gun. This problem is further compounded when you suppress the gun. It was for these reasons HK was approached for a piston AR15, not reliability.
Precisely why only SF units use HK416, and not your average infantry.

And now the coup de grace, the la-petite-morte of all 15 year old hormonal boys here: you are a Paki.

Go get fucked mate, I dont need to prove my credentials to anyone here, certainly not you.
I have posted several times before who am I and what I come from.

 

[Gessler]

You need to punch LVL III+ - IV Chinese and Russian plates you use heavier rounds. There is a reason why the 6.8mm is in such vogue today in the US Army and USMC.

If it were up to me I'd simply replace the 5.56x45 and 7.62x39 with the 6.8x43.

I'd be happy if that were the case. Unfortunately that's not the way we are going down.

Carrying an extra ammo canister helps immensely. There was the position of an assistant MG gunner some time ago for this very reason.

So you are telling me that this is simply photoshop?

Again, these are GPMGs...and their usage is mostly in a static role, where number of rounds in belt is immaterial as all the weight is borne by mother earth and not the soldier. When transporting equipment in a non-combat situation (which are the last 2 pics you posted), soldiers typically carry much more than they would in combat.

In the event of a mobile usage of the GPMG, the aforementioned 50-round pouches/belts are attached:

7.62x39 ; 7.62x51 ; 5.56x45 ; That's what the army RFIs and RFPs say.

And you missed the part about which rifle will see use where?...and mistakenly assuming AK-203s and SIGs will be used alongside in the same Section?


Watch from 5:55 till about 7:30

The SiG 716G2 DMR variant has a longer, better rifled (1/8th twist) barrel. Rest of the gun is simply a short piston AR 10. Nowhere in the company statement is there any mention of a specific variant. Could simply be a case of a few DMRs with the bulk being patrol. Again a barrel change is all it simply takes.

Assume whatever you want.

 

[vampyrbladez]

One by one:

The M16A4 trigger group has FOUR positions:

1. Safe
2. Semi
3. TRB
4. Full auto.

Hip Firing:
Have you ever carried an assault rifle, in its sling, with a full pack on your back? I have. It takes a second at most to bring it to your eye relief level - IF - you have been trained with it and have used it on the range regularly. One would expect soldiers to qualify these preconditions.
And, HAVE YOU EVER SHOT an assault rifle? Clearly, NO. Hip firing? This is beyond ludicrous - the recoil is significant when youre prone with the rifle properly seated against your shoulder and pulled back tight with your forearm. Hip fire that and you'll kill your squadmates.

As a matter of fact I have fired INSAS and SLR. I come from a military family so I went with my dad to his battalion range as teenager a few times.

If you sling it on your shoulder and try to bring it to bear you are effectively dead meat. Most troopers carry it while they patrol not sling. This shows how a rifle is used properly in CQB.

Asshole - the service M4s are NOT free floated. The G36 suffered from deviating point of impacts under combat conditions - yes, HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT translate to a completely different system?
What kind of deduction is this?

The G36 cracked under sustained automatic fire as the polymer barrel was unable to withstand the heat.

When the G36 overheats, either because of the temperature it finds itself in or because of constant, rapid fire, the precision and accuracy of the rifle suffer. The reason for this, according to the Defense Ministry, is that the rifle's barrel holder is made of a composite polymer that - even at a temperature as low as 23 degrees Celsius - softens and is no longer able to hold the barrel straight.

https://www.dw.com/en/heckler-koch-g36-the-rifle-held-in-all-the-wrong-places/a-18402772

Here is the M4A1 with a very similar problem.

“My weapon was overheating,” another soldier said. “I had shot about 12 magazines by this point already and it had only been about half an hour or so into the fight.” In other words, the soldier fired approximately 360 rounds in 30 minutes. That’s 14 rounds a minute—one every four seconds.

The M-4 carbine accommodates the M-203 grenade launcher under the barrel. Fitting a launcher requires a lighter barrel in order to maintain balance—and a lighter barrel heats more quickly than a heavier one.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...fle-overheated-and-jammed-bloody-battle-47262

Here's the US Army replacing barrels of the M4 with thicker, more durable ones.

The re-vamp of the M4 includes a heavier barrel, ambidextrous safety controls and conversion from three-round burst to fully automatic.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...inues-rollout-of-more-durable-full-auto-m4a1/

Cake the chamber in one magazine? are you nuts? The AR15 is a semi DI system, gas does NOT enter the chamber directly, it acts on a extension of bolt carrier group and not directly on the bolt.
Why were short stroke gas pistons brought about? Because the AR15 cannot be cut down to less than 13 inches barrel length. The semi DI system means you wont generate enough pressure to reliably cycle the gun. This problem is further compounded when you suppress the gun. It was for these reasons HK was approached for a piston AR15, not reliability.
Precisely why only SF units use HK416, and not your average infantry.

HK 416

AR 15

Understand dumbfuck? This when combined with bad propellant leads to this:

We left with 72 men in our platoon and came back with 19, Believe it or not, you know what killed most of us? Our own rifle. Practically every one of our dead was found with his (M16) torn down next to him where he had been trying to fix it.

— Marine Corps Rifleman, Vietnam.

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,843858,00.html

the propellant issue was far more complicated than the popular narrative supported by the Ichord Subcommittee. More than a fair amount of mythology has been built up about the DuPont Improved Military Powder (IMR), and I suspect IMR 4475 would have to posed its own problems in Vietnam if DuPont had not withdrawn it as a qualified propellant for M193. It certainly would not have solved the problems with chamber corrosion or non-existent case hardness standards.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/01/09/jim-sullivan-m16-vietnam/

And now the coup de grace, the la-petite-morte of all 15 year old hormonal boys here: you are a Paki.

Get fucked you ****** trash Paki. Either bring up valid points or stay off the board.