Skirmishs at LOC, LAC & International Border

[IndiaRising]

Windjammer the mighty goat fucker.

In order to correct his fuck up, he cited himself as the source.

"PAF fighters are basically designed as single-seat aircraft, but dual-seat versions are used for training. However, some special missions can only be flown in dual-seat aircraft, where the rear seat pilot performs the role of a ‘weapon systems operator.’ The Mirage IIID is such an example where the rear seat pilot guides the stand-off weapon like the H-4 bomb (released by another single-seat Mirage). In such cases both pilots of the dual-seat fighters have equal responsibility for task accomplishment. Then there are missions flown by dual-seat fighters which are no different from single-seat fighters, and the responsibility of task accomplishment is essentially that of the front-seat pilot. In such cases, the rear seat pilot (Guy In the Back Seat, or GIBS in common parlance) helps in enhancing the overall situational awareness, which is a welcome assistance, especially if available to the leader of the mission. However, it has to be noted that the mission can be accomplished without the GIBS, and he is not really a core crew member unless conducting a specialist mission."


This is the pic posted by the inbred Windy on Jan 2, 2018 which shows the F-16 pilot and his WSO which shot down IAF Searcher in 2002. Two seater F-16B with its pilot Squadron Leader Squadron Leader ‘Sidewinder’ Zulfiqar and his WSO Squadron Leader Afzal 'Wada".

So PAF's policy is that it needs pilots and WSO for shooting a slow moving, defenceless drone but not when invading enemy airspace in broad daylight.


Even the smarter Pork chops are asking where is the Sukhoi kill of JF-17 as announced by ISPR?

WC Abhinandan deserves a PVC. taking out a falcon with a mig 21 is the biggest feat in the history of aviation combat.

 

[itsme]

Lol Pakis doing a better job giving us proofs of F16 kill than our own media. First, the number of pilots captured, confirming the use of f16, R73 without a warhead, The videos of 2 fighters going down, Paki pig awaam sighting 2-3 pilots and now we have the pilots and fighters roster. Hhahah

 

[sorcerer]

Hey, guys is it confirmed that we hit muzzafarabad and chilkoti too along with balakot or is it hot air ?
I am not talking about any strike that might or might not have happened after balakot . I am talking about 26th Feb strike .
There's not a peep about it anywhere ,so, I am having doubts about it .

After initial reports of 3 STRIKES.a 3 DIFFERENT LOCATIONS.media went silent.

Probable reason could be that india was assessing pak behavior. Some of them in the Indian establishment was very sure that pakistan wont SAY A WORD even if India hits them bad cuz them porks wants to PRESERVE their stupid fake bravado.


It was pakistan who said about BALAKOT...and India let it play.(India be like..okay..so you wanna talk about Balakot Wonly..okay...cool!!)

also..pakistan confirmed by their dance that INDIA CAN HIT ANY WHERE ANY PLACE and they will keep quiet about it...because..the already fragile brand of pak army need more than OLA to save their ass.

[Why keep quiet:? Simple reason..if they make noise..they will be "forced to respond" by their inbred pakis against kafirs and Indian aggression and the biggest of all MODI..and them pakis know that that will be the END of pakistan game]
That also explains the "STAGED" STUNT by pakistan at LC on Feb 27 which them pakis lost an F16"B" to a mig bison

Hence some of them in Indian establishment was proved right on pakistan.
The reason why India is hitting pakistan mercilessly at LC even for a slight provocation.

Edit: Truth about other 2 places will come out and come out it will..like the F16 "B"

 

[sorcerer]

I don't know ,I read at some forum that muzzafarabad and chilkoti were targets too but because of clouds or bad weather we weren't able to release our crystal maze , during balakot too same thing happened although it was in secondary role here, the main strike via penetrator(spice?) was supposed to kill everyone inside and crystal maze was to be used for external strike with hd video feed or you can say in PR role.
I really don't know what to say , I am wishing for someone credible to write a book about it in coming months or next year.

Media did break the news with NUMBERS of deaths at each of these 3 locations and terror groups associated with it.
Sure...lets see...it will come out some day.. as the OPERATION IS STILL ONGOING.
ONGOING till Indians can buy property at LAHORE..

 

[sorcerer]

NEVER SEEN BEFORE PLANS

Revealed: How India hoodwinked Pakistan in Balakot air strike
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-in-balakot-air-strike/videoshow/69978868.cms

 

[sorcerer]

Why launch a UAV before such a critical operation? That is the price of secrecy. Over 20 Mirage-2000s were flying out to Balakot. They were readied, they were armed. The entire airbase would have known. Yet, the information did not go out. Outside Air HQ, the Western Air Command HQ and the base, nobody, even knew. The UAV was probably to put pressure on Pakistan, to keep its forces on tenterhooks. And it became, in a way, part of an operation.
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/...s-were-changed-due-to-a-dramatic-twist/444595

Hmmmm....Trickling out it is..
Good as it should awesomely trickle out.

 

[sorcerer]

yep ,but there are a lot of gaps too , although we were able to stop pakis from achieving their objectives ,but I don't get many things ,for ex when whole of paf assets were in air on that day ,and they had a huge package of 24 planes ,why could we only field a few(8?)

May be cuz we knew that was enough and it was the paki gimmick for their media. Its easy to asses pakis actually.

secondly why did a MIG 21 went ALONE inside pork territory ,where were the others ?

There was reports that MIG defied the orders and went for the chase.-Mig saw the chance and took it.. LC is actually a tricky place for pilots..and well sometimes Instincts cant be held back..especially of the chase and kill...a combination of both may be.

Thirdly pakis started the attack by firing amraams from well within there territory ,this was foolish as that gives Iaf prerequisite to fire bvrams from well within India (explains pork NOTAM) , but after initial interception why weren't we able to launch a single bvr missile from any aircraft let's say a sukhoi evaded the amraam, now it's free, why couldn't after that they fired on any paki assets say AWACS deep inside Pakistan ,

Firing from within their territory itself shows that them paki pilots know nothing of the weapons and are shit scared to engage Indian pilots..we have heard deep about how shit trained paki pilots are.
pakis were FOOOLISH enough to fire AMRAMS inside a territory with CIVILIAN AIRLINES in the AIR.
India wont do such a thing.
India is a nation with Responsible army and air force that respect the international rules of engagement

EDIT:
Going by paki SM Media dance after.
They LIED about Downing SU's.. Well they FIRED the AMRAMMS to MANUFACTURE this LIE .

May be prior to mission pakis had 2 objectives to "MANUFACTURE" in SUPPORT for their LIES.
1) Downing of Su with their AMRAMS (LIE which they said blatantly without showing any proof)
2) Dropping of bombs at INDIAN territory to show "Capability" (to scoot , take one in the ass and paki pilots getting killed by own pakis)

and also how did pakis miss literally everything apart from those 2 bombs that fell in compound

pakistan wanted to STAGE A DRAMA that they responded and Gafoora did the dance after.

I mean a few of there bombs fell along Loc in open area , what the f*** were they targeting ? or did they drop their weapons and fuel tank to scoot when they saw our mig's .Also six mig's were launched one went after pakis what about the others?

They were not supposed to hit anything as paki said..they just staged a drama that they can respond and it will keep their inbred mullahs happy.

They did scoot when the MIG meant business and Sus disarmed their so called AMRAAMS..
The operational details of others would be classified and their areas of interests too.

Why was there no contingency plan to immediately retaliate on a target in Pakistan ,as the main objective of this strike was PR for public consumption and they did achieve that ,imagine a massive swift retaliatory attack by 24 aircrafts of our own on their assets say AWACS , all paki PR job would have went to waste.
OR
If we were able to field more sukhois we might have ended up destroying a few f-16s and porki PR would have gone down gutter.

May be Escalating the situation by DOWNIN paki jets would have put pakistan on a pressure front and such WOULD have affected the plans Indian Army has on the ground vis a vis capturing some place by nibbling. and our stand on ATTACK on NONMIL. Assets as and when pleased.

If we see such things, we see that even Russia, USA, ISRAEL etc doesn't respond such aggressively when in similar situations..tho they are capable to take out a whole lot of enemy assets.
There is always a method and they ensure that "issues and Adrenaline" DONT affect the LARGER PLANS.

I am also interested in the dog fights or confrontation that might have happened in other sectors, pakis fired say 5 amraams that leaves our 3 planes ,what did they do? ,and how did jf-17 fare against us and in what role were they employed

They said the skirmish in the air and the pak drama was limited to only one sector. Our priorities and sectors and intentions will never be revealed.
Well!! some of these details which IAF would have STUDIED about the enemy assets will never be revealed as how their jets performed or our assesment of it. They are sort of errmmm...

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

This video from Times Now seems to suggest like that operation balakot was a one off operation. In reality, aggresive combat air patrol was going on, probing of weak zones of paki air defences and lot of dry bombing runs were conducted ever since the pulwama attacks on 14th. This was done to keep the pakis on their toes and giving them sleepless nights. Pakis sensed Modi's intent and knew an attack of massive proportions was comi ng and kept their armed forces on high alert. But all they didn't know how and when. Their first response was to immediately vacate the launchpads near LOC fearing a commando raid like SS1. IAF on the other hand practiced bombing runs during 15-17 in Pokhran during air exercise. After that Aero India happened and the Pulwama incident gradually disappered from newspaper and public mind. This gave the IAF a psychological releif and continue its operation. The plan was to do such agressive patrolling near the entire LOC while the navy put up a blockade near Karachi and the army continuing its fire assaults. The pakis were disoriented about the nature and time of the actual attack. The attack finally happened on 26th. Pakis hit badly wanted things not to come out in media. But since the press conference by our foreign secretary on 26th morning they executed the botched operation on 27th to show their false bravado to their public. IAF on the other hand have hit them hard on several ocassion. This incidents were not made public in Indian media but have been hinted in Baba's as well as other twitter handles. This incident has forced the Pakis to indefinately extend notam over its airspace.

 

[sorcerer]

This incidents were not made public in Indian media but have been hinted in Baba's as well as other twitter handles. This incident has forced the Pakis to indefinately extend notam over its airspace.

Surprisingly,,.....these random handles are followed by PMO and PM india on twitter.
Oh Welll!!!!

 

[mist_consecutive]

WC Abhinandan deserves a PVC. taking out a falcon with a mig 21 is the biggest feat in the history of aviation combat.

Mig - 21s are deadly in close melee. They easily do 8Gs and 90deg nose climb. Paired with HMD + 60deg off-boresight missile, you got a Falcon Hunter. The only thing that it lacks is a good radar and effective EW suite.

But, it should be noted that Abhinandan violated SOP by ignoring warnings and crossing LoC alone.

yep ,but there are a lot of gaps too , although we were able to stop pakis from achieving their objectives ,but I don't get many things ,for ex when whole of paf assets were in air on that day ,and they had a huge package of 24 planes ,why could we only field a few(8?) against them ,I am just talking about numbers without getting into technical details as we knew the moment they were in air , secondly why did a MIG 21 went ALONE inside pork territory ,where were the others ? Thirdly pakis started the attack by firing amraams from well within there territory ,this was foolish as that gives Iaf prerequisite to fire bvrams from well within India (explains pork NOTAM) , but after initial interception why weren't we able to launch a single bvr missile from any aircraft let's say a sukhoi evaded the amraam, now it's free, why couldn't after that they fired on any paki assets say AWACS deep inside Pakistan , and also how did pakis miss literally everything apart from those 2 bombs that fell in compound , I mean a few of there bombs fell along Loc in open area , what the f*** were they targeting ? or did they drop their weapons and fuel tank to scoot when they saw our mig's .Also six mig's were launched one went after pakis what about the others?
Why was there no contingency plan to immediately retaliate on a target in Pakistan ,as the main objective of this strike was PR for public consumption and they did achieve that ,imagine a massive swift retaliatory attack by 24 aircrafts of our own on their assets say AWACS , all paki PR job would have went to waste.
OR
If we were able to field more sukhois we might have ended up destroying a few f-16s and porki PR would have gone down gutter.

CAUTION : I am not an expert ,these are just noob questions in my mind .
I believe the main objective of Pak was PR and they did achieve it initially.
Also why are we not able to get a single video pic or even name of pilots died on 27th .

I am also interested in the dog fights or confrontation that might have happened in other sectors, pakis fired say 5 amraams that leaves our 3 planes ,what did they do? ,and how did jf-17 fare against us and in what role were they employed ?
Although numbers are any bodies guess right now, so above question is just a speculation on the alleged number of planes.

I don't get many things ,for ex when whole of paf assets were in air on that day ,and they had a huge package of 24 planes ,why could we only field a few(8?) against them ,I am just talking about numbers without getting into technical details as we knew the moment they were in air

At once, there remain few planes on CAP, and others remain ready to scramble at short notice. 4 x Su - 30MKI were CAP around J&K while 2 x Mirage - 2000 were CAP around Punjab if I remember correctly. 4 x Mig - 21 Bison were scrambled from Srinagar AFB after the alert.
Just because they fielded whole AF up doesn't mean we will show a knee jerk reaction to everything.

secondly why did a MIG 21 went ALONE inside pork territory ,where were the others

He violated SOP despite warnings and crossed LoC alone, while his wingman returned.

Thirdly pakis started the attack by firing amraams from well within there territory ,this was foolish as that gives Iaf prerequisite to fire bvrams from well within India (explains pork NOTAM) , but after initial interception why weren't we able to launch a single bvr missile from any aircraft let's say a sukhoi evaded the amraam, now it's free, why couldn't after that they fired on any paki assets say AWACS deep inside Pakistan

When Sukhois were free, the planes already returned into Pakistan. They could have initiated a knee - jerk reaction and chased back, but Pakistanis were prepared and waiting for our jets to cross, it would have been just falling into their well-laid trap (which Abhinandan gracefully fell). Also, AWACS generally fly well within the territory to avoid such attacks (ours flew near Himachal Pradesh).

how did pakis miss literally everything apart from those 2 bombs that fell in compound , I mean a few of there bombs fell along Loc in open area , what the f*** were they targeting ? or did they drop their weapons and fuel tank to scoot when they saw our mig'show did pakis miss literally everything apart from those 2 bombs that fell in compound , I mean a few of there bombs fell along Loc in open area , what the f*** were they targeting ? or did they drop their weapons and fuel tank to scoot when they saw our mig's

They were surprised by our Migs and ran away. Few reached the target, most missed their target and few fell across LoC from the jets escaping hastily.

Why was there no contingency plan to immediately retaliate on a target in Pakistan ,as the main objective of this strike was PR for public consumption and they did achieve that ,imagine a massive swift retaliatory attack by 24 aircrafts of our own on their assets say AWACS , all paki PR job would have went to waste.

There was, we were going to attack around mid-March. The plan got leaked and Pakistani minister (I don't remember who, I think finance minister ranted on TV regarding this...). Later vote came and everything cooled down.

If we were able to field more sukhois we might have ended up destroying a few f-16s and porki PR would have gone down gutter.

That is the most annoying thing. Luck was hugely towards Pakistani side. Whatever could have gone wrong, went wrong that day for India.

I am also interested in the dog fights or confrontation that might have happened in other sectors, pakis fired say 5 amraams that leaves our 3 planes ,what did they do? ,and how did jf-17 fare against us and in what role were they employed ?

Another confrontation I know is of Fort Abbas one. 2 x F-16 sprinted towards Indian border near Jaisalmer, IAF Su-30s on CAP launched BVRs at them before crossing LoC, F-16s turned tail and ran away in opposite direction, ejecting their fuel tanks and payload.

 

[Knowitall]

How I wish we do an other airstrike on them. We can't let this be a one off thing we need to normalize this or occasionally do it at least to keep them at toes.

 

[Knowitall]

...self delete............. . ..........

 

[arya]

Pakistan is increasing his fighter planes numbers and our strength are decreasing our new rafale is costly s coapre to J17 so now they will put 3 j17 to counter our 1 rafale . soon china can give them j20 also as china already provided pl15 to Pakistan . turkey can also sell his 5th gen planes to pakistan

Guys dont be surprised if Pakistan will get 5 th gen planes first as compare to us . i feel our defence tank is more loyal toward the govt as compare to nation .

why we are not serious about our IAF strength , we are very slow in modernization

 

[arya]

That doesn't sound right , so entire AF of a hostile enemy nation is airborne ,doing aggressive caps /feints AFTER we BOMBED their SOVEREIGN territory and allegedly killed hundreds but reacting to it with appropriate number of aircrafts is a "knee jerk reaction"?
In such a situation it would have been called a natural reaction.
Come on the moment they saw such a huge package of pakis we should have countered it with appropriate numbers and should even had a contingency plan to attack just for diversion if nothing else .
There were many shortcomings on our side but I think they were majorly in decision making and threat perception ,but it's good as IAF will learn from it ,fill the gaps and hopefully roe is modified.

Also one question yes AWACS and other assets are deep inside the enemy airspace but what's the way to counter or destroy it , long range missiles? ,I thought bvr missile will do the job , but the question still stands they fired 5-6 amrams and we didn't fire even a single one .
Also the fort abbas episode can you provide date or timeline?
Did it happen before or after 27th episode? because i read fort abbas was attacked even before balakot via twitter.

i hope our govt learnt from past mistakes , Pakistan is increasing his air force strength they ha PL 15 & soon will get 5 th gen planes from china but our process is very very slow

 

[Bhadra]

That doesn't sound right , so entire AF of a hostile enemy nation is airborne ,doing aggressive caps /feints AFTER we BOMBED their SOVEREIGN territory and allegedly killed hundreds but reacting to it with appropriate number of aircrafts is a "knee jerk reaction"?
In such a situation it would have been called a natural reaction.
Come on the moment they saw such a huge package of pakis we should have countered it with appropriate numbers and should even had a contingency plan to attack just for diversion if nothing else .
There were many shortcomings on our side but I think they were majorly in decision making and threat perception ,but it's good as IAF will learn from it ,fill the gaps and hopefully roe is modified.

Also one question yes AWACS and other assets are deep inside the enemy airspace but what's the way to counter or destroy it , long range missiles? ,I thought bvr missile will do the job , but the question still stands they fired 5-6 amrams and we didn't fire even a single one .
Also the fort abbas episode can you provide date or timeline?
Did it happen before or after 27th episode? because i read fort abbas was attacked even before balakot via twitter.

So you did not hear or understood what Chief of Air Staff said.

OK India had an aim, they chose the objective and carried out surgical strike.
From India's point of view the aim has been achieved.
Pakistan did not carry out any major strike in India in response..
Then why should India escalate and enter into higher realm of conflict. India did what they aimed to do. That is it.

Now if Pakistan puts their entire airforce and Army on one months punishment, let them do it ? What is India's loss in that. India can only be in defensive as there is no requirement to escale.

Second thought. Should India respond to Pakistani provocations?
Or should India carry our military operations at a time, place and manner of our choosing ?

I hope you got the answer.........

 

[arya]

So you did not hear or understood what Chief of Air Staff said.

OK India had an aim, they chose the objective and carried out surgical strike.
From India's point of view the aim has been achieved.
Pakistan did not carry out any major strike in India in response..
Then why should India escalate and enter into higher realm of conflict. India did what they aimed to do. That is it.

Now if Pakistan puts their entire airforce and Army on one months punishment, let them do it ? What is India's loss in that. India can only be in defensive as there is no requirement to escale.

Second thought. Should India respond to Pakistani provocations?
Or should India carry our military operations at a time, place and manner of our choosing ?

I hope you got the answer.........

Agreed . Pakistan attacked on our army installation while we were attacking on terrorist . well we have to give reply we cant let them go .

 

[bhramos]

This b*****d has assaulted a soldier. Hats off to the jawan who showed constraint. In no other country this would be tolerated.

 

[Absolut_Vodka]

I was talking about us able to field only 8 aircrafts versus their 24 when they attacked on 27th , I am just talking about numbers , especially after their whole airforce was airborne on that day .
Your rest of the post doesn't make sense with respect to above post ,you are talking about different thing.
I am not talking about escalation but 27th Feb defence .
Again I too was talking about being defensive when they had whole airforce up and a huge package coming ,we should have defended with a better NUMBER I repeat number of birds ,
secondly this punishment for months thing doesn't make sense as it wasn't months but the very next day of when we BOMBED their SOVEREIGN territory , I think we should have been prepared with more birds to thwart any eventuality.

8 IAF fighters were sufficient enough since ours were all in A2A configuration while pakis were split in A2A and A2G role. Moreover don't count their mirages and bandars as threat.

 

[mist_consecutive]

I was talking about us able to field only 8 aircrafts versus their 24 when they attacked on 27th , I am just talking about numbers , especially after their whole airforce was airborne on that day .
Your rest of the post doesn't make sense with respect to above post ,you are talking about different thing.
I am not talking about escalation but 27th Feb defence .
Again I too was talking about being defensive when they had whole airforce up and a huge package coming ,we should have defended with a better NUMBER I repeat number of birds ,
secondly this punishment for months thing doesn't make sense as it wasn't months but the very next day of when we BOMBED their SOVEREIGN territory , I think we should have been prepared with more birds to thwart any eventuality.

Ok, let me explain to you then.

On a wartime scenario, fighter jets can be in roughly 3 categories,

1. Under maintenance/repair :- around 15 - 20% of the fleet. Lying in hangers. Cannot get airborne immediately.
2. Battle ready :- Nearly 65 - 70 % of the fleet. Requires the pilots to be called, refueled, and armed to get airborne. Min. time around 30 min or more to get airborne from the notification period.
3. Ready to scramble :- ~ 5 % of fighter fleet. Generally all the time, 2-4 jets are always armed and ready to take off in short notice (still 2 - 5 min.) at each forward base. Mig-21 have shortest scramble time in IAF.
4. Fighters on CAP :- Again a short fleet on the lookout.

So, let's say, suddenly at short notice (in around < 30 min.) PAF has a huge fleet in the air, and approaching towards LoC. At best, India can redirect its CAP fighters (which it did) towards it, while scrambling others for backup (which, again it did with Mig-21). Consecutively, other jets from other bases will also be scrambled, but then in that time, everything was over, and PAF jets already returned to Pakistan.

Bear in mind, aggressor always has an advantage being the element of surprise. I ask you, why no PAF plane challenged the huge number of IAF planes barging into Pakistan?

Also @Violent peaceful try to write in small paragraphs separated by spaces. Your text becomes too cluttered and difficult to understand

 

[mist_consecutive]

That doesn't sound right , so entire AF of a hostile enemy nation is airborne ,doing aggressive caps /feints AFTER we BOMBED their SOVEREIGN territory and allegedly killed hundreds but reacting to it with appropriate number of aircrafts is a "knee jerk reaction"?
In such a situation it would have been called a natural reaction.
Come on the moment they saw such a huge package of pakis we should have countered it with appropriate numbers and should even had a contingency plan to attack just for diversion if nothing else .
There were many shortcomings on our side but I think they were majorly in decision making and threat perception ,but it's good as IAF will learn from it ,fill the gaps and hopefully roe is modified.

Also one question yes AWACS and other assets are deep inside the enemy airspace but what's the way to counter or destroy it , long range missiles? ,I thought bvr missile will do the job , but the question still stands they fired 5-6 amrams and we didn't fire even a single one .
Also the fort abbas episode can you provide date or timeline?
Did it happen before or after 27th episode? because i read fort abbas was attacked even before balakot via twitter.

After Balakot. Read it here https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...-airstrike-2-0-speculation-1470190-2019-03-04