Russia Ukraine War 2022

Who will win this war?.


  • Total voters
    414

mokoman

Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
4,458
Likes
26,342
Country flag
This is a interesting debate between Scott Ritter and Larry C. Johnson. I think if NATO is really in this for the long term (The next 10 years,) he might have a good point. However, how can the US cope if China invades Taiwan? Also I don't think it's realistic that America or the world can afford a long dragged out conflict. Plus Russia will win at all cost, and there is nothing NATO can do about it. Maybe for the next few months NATO can help drag it out, but not much past that. This insanity needs to stop. Skrew Ukraine and Zelensky, they're not worth it.
DEBATING SCOTT RITTER
22 May 2022 by Larry Johnson

I present this background because I take issue with the substance of his latest interview with Sputnick. As a sideline, it is worth noting that Scott’s critique of the Russian military strategy is not silenced by Sputnick. They published it. Please show me one American media outlet that would allow a critique of the Biden policy? There is not one.

Scott is insisting that Biden’s decision to supply Ukraine with $40 billion dollars is a “game changer.” Here is what he wrote in response to questions from Sputnik:


I think Scott is wrong. Let me explain.

Money may make the world go around but it does not magically produce trained, enthusiastic troops willing and capable of using such weapons. During my time at the U.S. State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism, I was the Deputy Director for the Anti-Terrorism Assistance Training Program (ATAP). We discovered that no matter how much money the United States wanted to supply to a specific country to combat terrorism we reached a saturation point. We learned that you reach a point where there are no more people to train or the recipients of the training could not absorb the support.

Ukraine’s problem right now is not a lack of equipment. The had combat aircraft, helicopters, tanks, artillery and drones. Russia destroyed a significant amount of that materiel and killed the soldiers and pilots who were trained to operate those systems. Training replacements–competent replacements–can not be accomplished in a one or two day seminar. Training a pilot or an artillery crew, for example, requires weeks and, in some circumstances, months of instruction before the trainees are ready to go to battle.

As I noted in my previous post, the U.S. decision to send M-155 howitzers to Ukraine is another meaningless gesture. These guns can only get into position by being towed by a vehicle. Once the howitzer is set up and starts firing it is immediately vulnerable to counter battery fire. The best method to counteract counter battery fire is to move the artillery piece to a new location immediately after it fires. You can not do this with the M-155.

I have yet to see a list of the equipment this $40 billion is supposed to buy for Ukraine, but it does not appear that the United States is sending its best first generation weapons. Up to this point we have not seen a single instance of the Ukrainian military mounting a counter attack with air and land assets against Russian forces and winning the day. When the Azov battalion was surrounded at Azovstal, we did not see the Ukrainians attempt an operation akin to Field Marshal Erich von Manstein’s failed attempt to rescue Field Marshal von Paulus at Stalingrad. The answer is simple–the Ukrainians either did not have such a force with the capability to save the Azov thugs or it feared that Russia’s air power and artillery would wipe out or inflict unacceptable casualties on a rescue force. Hence, Azov surrendered unconditionally.

Scott Ritter sees the training of Ukrainian troops in Poland and Germany as a critical variable that could really hurt the Russians. Training reinforcements on new technology might be a potential game changer if the situation on the ground in Ukraine was static. It is not. Russia is grinding down the entrenched Ukrainian forces in the Donbass . Russia is shooting down any Ukrainian planes that dare to take off. Russia is destroying artillery and tank emplacements with counter battery fire. Russia is shooting down drones with regularity. Even if those new trainees graduate and are deployed to the eastern maelstrom, their ability to function as a competent combat unit is limited by Ukraine’s existing and growing deficiencies.

Scott also asserts that intelligence sharing gives the Ukrainians an edge. When you provide intelligence on Russian troop movements, locations or plans, there is an assumption that the recipients of that intelligence will be able to do something to hurt the Russians. How did that work out in Mariupol? How about fending off the Russian missile attack in Desna. In my view, sharing intelligence with Ukraine is an effort in futility. Am empty gesture that will not change anything on the ground. https://sonar21.com/debating-scott-ritter/
US is trying to long term replace Ukraines soviet era weaponry with NATO weapons .

its also trying to do something similar on smaller scale with India .

i guess this guy is talking about a scenario where Russia cant secure a treaty and end all hostilities ,which means this will simply go on for years.
 

sydsnyper

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2013
Messages
1,513
Likes
2,632
Country flag
Yeah, lets put an end to this fuckin nonsense..

 

Varzone

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2022
Messages
842
Likes
2,337
Country flag
So Ukrainians officially have no more Neptune AShM after the Russians hit their production facilities following the sinking of the Moskva.
Objection! hearsay your honour....where did you get that from that tweet?
 

Blood+

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
1,111
Likes
1,654
Country flag
So Ukrainians officially have no more Neptune AShM after the Russians hit their production facilities following the sinking of the Moskva.
Can't say that for sure but their numbers must be running really low since it was a new missile that entered production not that long ago and then the factory went kaput, so the missile had a very limited production run.
 

Blood+

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
1,111
Likes
1,654
Country flag
Why not?? You just can't say no and pack it up!!
Dude, I know where your allegiance and biases lie but at least try to put up a facade of neutrality!!

Now what are the facts that are available to us wrt this whole saga??
1. Neptune was a newer design.
2. It had a very limited production run before the assembly line got hit by a Russian missile strike and went up in flames. So no new missiles are coming out of that stable, that's for sure.

So what can we infer from these two facts?? And then correspond that data with the production rate of our own AShM i.e the Brahmos, which we have been producing who knows for how long!! You do all that and you'll get your answer.
 

Blood+

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
1,111
Likes
1,654
Country flag
Stugna-P is a Ukr ATGM but they still use NLAWS and Javelins....Idk what your point is
Those systems aren't even comparable to each other!! Given a choice, anyone would want to use the western systems over the former under most circumstances. So of course, the Ukrainians are using NLAWS and Javelins despite having their own Stugnas.
 

Varzone

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2022
Messages
842
Likes
2,337
Country flag
Why not?? You just can't say no and pack it up!!
Dude, I know where your allegiance and biases lie but at least try to put up a facade of neutrality!!
I can say the same about you pooty-gang. It's war, they can make it in a disguised factory somewhere deep in Ukraine, how do you know for sure? Just depending on western arms would be suicidal with French and Germans running around to get a cease-fire and not providing any weapons.
You think Ukr should just be on the mercy of the duplicitous west? Whose to say they are not manufacturing what they can however small-scale it is because this is showtime baby ain't no rehearsal or Victory Day parade going on here.
When London was getting bombed you know they still had secret weapon assembly factories right?
 

Varzone

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2022
Messages
842
Likes
2,337
Country flag
Those systems aren't even comparable to each other!! Given a choice, anyone would want to use the western systems over the former under most circumstances. So of course, the Ukrainians are using NLAWS and Javelins despite having their own Stugnas.
Don't change goalposts the end result should be a sunk ship or blown tank but options are always nice.
Idk what you trying to prove here you are clearly in the wrong just putting out blanket statements
 

Varzone

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2022
Messages
842
Likes
2,337
Country flag
Those systems aren't even comparable to each other!! Given a choice, anyone would want to use the western systems over the former under most circumstances. So of course, the Ukrainians are using NLAWS and Javelins despite having their own Stugnas.
Most people would like a Mont-Blanc Ballpoint pen over some Natraj Rs2 pen but it gets the job done
 

Blood+

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
1,111
Likes
1,654
Country flag
I can say the same about you pooty-gang.
Pooty-gang is way better than your chaman-chutya brown sepoy gang, this very dumpster fire of a comment you just posted bears testimony to that. Anyhow, moving on.....
It's war, they can make it in a disguised factory somewhere deep in Ukraine, how do you know for sure?
Vegita.png


Yeha diwali ka rocket ke barein mein baat nehi chal raha, you fucking mong!! Seriously, are you really this dumb or do you have to actually try??!!

Just depending on western arms would be suicidal with French and Germans running around to get a cease-fire and not providing any weapons.
Yeah, that's what happens when you chose a fucking clown, nay a whole fucking circus to run your nation.
You think Ukr should just be on the mercy of the duplicitous west?
Nope, I don't think so, it's almost an open fact at this point!! Why do you think they are begging for old derelict early cold war junks like those Polish T-72Ms and heck, even those German Leopard 1s??
Now, your inner fanboy is probably not letting you wake up from your dreams but well, world does not run according to your dreams or wishes. The fact is, your Ukrazis are fucked.
Whose to say they are not manufacturing what they can however small-scale it is because this is showtime baby ain't no rehearsal or Victory Day parade going on here.
Keep breathing in the copium all you want if that helps you sleep at night.
 

Blood+

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
1,111
Likes
1,654
Country flag
Most people would like a Mont-Blanc Ballpoint pen over some Natraj Rs2 pen but it gets the job done
Yeah but the likelihood of your preference for one particular brand of ballpoint pen over the other getting you killed is 0 to the power of infinity but that ain't the case when you have to deal with a fucking MBT coming your way!!
 

Varzone

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2022
Messages
842
Likes
2,337
Country flag
Pooty-gang is way better than your chaman-chutya brown sepoy gang, this very dumpster fire of a comment you just posted bears testimony to that. Anyhow, moving on.....

View attachment 157239

Yeha diwali ka rocket ke barein mein baat nehi chal raha, you fucking mong!! Seriously, are you really this dumb or do you have to actually try??!!


Yeah, that's what happens when you chose a fucking clown, nay a whole fucking circus to run your nation.

Nope, I don't think so, it's almost an open fact at this point!! Why do you think they are begging for old derelict early cold war junks like those Polish T-72Ms and heck, even those German Leopard 1s??
Now, your inner fanboy is probably not letting you wake up from your dreams but well, world does not run according to your dreams or wishes. The fact is, your Ukrazis are fucked.

Keep breathing in the copium all you want if that helps you sleep at night.
You put all the memes you know about in your response and think that makes you more credible?
Tanks is a different scale all together, Ukr can't make planes either...but missiles can be done IMO.
 

Blood+

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
1,111
Likes
1,654
Country flag
Don't change goalposts the end result should be a sunk ship or blown tank but options are always nice.
Idk what you trying to prove here you are clearly in the wrong just putting out blanket statements
I'm not changing goalposts here. Stugna is not a fire-and-forget system as far as I'm aware (do correct me if I'm wrong), which leaves the operators exposed to potential incoming fire for a much longer period of time whereas the other systems you mentioned are in fact fire-and-forget types. So obviously, anyone would prefer the later variants under most circumstances, it's a no-brainer.
But Harpoon, on the other hand, is not that dissimilar to the Neptune.
 

Blood+

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
1,111
Likes
1,654
Country flag
You put all the memes you know about in your response and think that makes you more credible?
Tanks is a different scale all together, Ukr can't make planes either...but missiles can be done IMO.
Yeah, we have a phrase for that - wishful thinking.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top