Project-75I class SSK Submarines

[Kunal Biswas]

According to @Decklander, She already did it..

What we need is hull and electronics and attack system and the propulsion will be different, @kushalappa noted that we have received HDW technology of making Diesel-Electrics so there should not be much issues, AIP can wait...

True, if during sea trials Arihant proves to be reliable, extremely stealthy and fast sub, we should just reuse the same design and make AIP version of this baby.

 

[Neil]

Russia says in race to bag mega sub deal

It is considered an outsider in the race to bag the Indian navy's contract for a new generation, long endurance conventional submarine but Russia maintains it is a strong contender as it will soon have the Air Independent Propulsion.

It was the lack of the AIP, which drastically increases the capability of a submarine to stay underwater by reducing dependence on compressed oxygen to burn fuel, that was seen as a disadvantage to Russia's participation in the navy's Project 75I to procure six new generation conventional submarines. Conventional submarines can stay underwater for a few days but those equipped with AIP can stay submerged for more than three weeks, giving the operator advantage in terms of stealthy operations and sneak attacks.

Russian designers said the system will be ready by 2016 and may even be fitted on Russian vessels by 2018. "The AIP is no longer a stumbling block to our participation in the P 75I," Andrey Baranov, deputy director general of the Rubin Design Bureau, said. "We will have a prototype of the system ready and in place by 2016."

Russia has offered to help the DRDO develop an indigenous version of the AIP, Baranov said and stressed that India was unlikely to find other partners who would share such critical technology.

"The main difference between our system and others in the world is that we do not store hydrogen onboard but generate it. We also use standard diesel that the submarine has," Rubin Design Bureau chief designer Igor Molchanov said. This, he said, makes the Russian AIP stealthier than the French and frees it of the need for shore-based hydrogen generating facilities which are required by the German system.

Both the French DCNS and the German HDW are strong competitors for the P 75I contract, which will be one of the largest global tenders in terms of money. There has, however, been delay in floating a tender though the decision to procure the submarines — to restore India's edge in underwater operations in the region —was taken years ago.


Russia says in race to bag mega sub deal | idrw.org

 

[natarajan]

It will keep dragging like anything,lets wait for 2014 if this conki back then am sure we will see first submarine launched not before 2025.With chinese rapid expansion with 60 submarines and 70 surface ships we are busy on thinking on how to cheat people and alliance to regain power

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

Dada,

Problem with this is : HDW class about 1500 ton displacement (Shishumar)

Arihant quoted at about 6000 ton.(with reactor and shielding, but still)

No suitable power plant (diesel electric) exists, AFAIK.

Closest is Japs, with 4000 ton class.

According to @Decklander, She already did it..

What we need is hull and electronics and attack system and the propulsion will be different, @kushalappa noted that we have received HDW technology of making Diesel-Electrics so there should not be much issues, AIP can wait...

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

Maybe new design required, smaller than Arihant.

It seems Naval Design Bureau rcvd training on "Design of 1500 ton class submarine" during the 80's from IKL Lubek. Senior Offr. of Navy blogs that Syllabus was successfully assimilated.

My proposal - start a small coastal sub design, produce in MDL / other suitable. Maybe 650 - 800 ton, 15-20 crew, that kind of thing.

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

******Pure Speculation Alert******

Even though no source of information, or official confirmation, of successful sea trials of INS Arihant, even I agree with Decklander.

Reasons:

1) Arihant Reactor design was not steep learning curve, as based on proven Russian design, and Russian hand holding. It was more like transfer of know how and has to work.

2) Reactor plant worked on land successfully, before moving on to Arihant. (Proof: If had not been successful, would not have moved to Arihant - Simple, no?)
No reason seen for failure, esp. coupled with point 1) above.

3) Few months back, Naval Chief had said "expect good news on Arihant soon" probably referring to sea trials successful, but went silent after that. If problem, would Navy not have shouted from roof tops about it, selective leaks to media, etc. No such thing happnd.

4) Even layman like me knows propulsion is important. If powers that be were not confident about it, would they have started construction of Hull 2, etc. in L&T?

Waiting for further proof from Dada and Decklander.......

True, if during sea trials Arihant proves to be reliable, extremely stealthy and fast sub, we should just reuse the same design and make AIP version of this baby.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I think, If the project starts there will be solutions..

Dada,

Problem with this is : HDW class about 1500 ton displacement (Shishumar)

Arihant quoted at about 6000 ton.(with reactor and shielding, but still and Nukes silo compartment)

No suitable power plant (diesel electric) exists, AFAIK.

Closest is Japs, with 4000 ton class.

 

[arnabmit]

[video=youtube_share;SLzMAdC_CYQ]http://youtu.be/SLzMAdC_CYQ[/video]

Maybe new design required, smaller than Arihant.

It seems Naval Design Bureau rcvd training on "Design of 1500 ton class submarine" during the 80's from IKL Lubek. Senior Offr. of Navy blogs that Syllabus was successfully assimilated.

My proposal - start a small coastal sub design, produce in MDL / other suitable. Maybe 650 - 800 ton, 15-20 crew, that kind of thing.

 

[agentperry]

inputs. 4 arihant exist as of today. one as we know as ins arihant undergoing trials. 2 in gujrat and one in cochin. latter three are in various stages of production namely in gujrat they are undergoing hull fabrication and in cochin undergoing other fabrication.

 

[natarajan]

Is it true,actually only three are in arihant class right

 

[agentperry]

Is it true,actually only three are in arihant class right

see i cant confirm the news though any "publication" but 3 submarine class is not all that is arihant is about.
a submarine making program that include making nuclear submarines in india for aggressive nuclear response in future- completing nuclear triad. the submarine making would be continuous and not an abstract limited series project.
the submarines would be made on continuous basis with upcoming models better than under construction.
for ex- 3 are made with some specs then there is some development so next 3 would be made with those improvements included in the design.

 

[arnabmit]

No, 4.

INS Arihant, INS Aridhaman, ATV-3 & ATV-4

Is it true,actually only three are in arihant class right

 

[Neil]

India to fast track multiple submarine deals


After losing INS Sindhurakshak in a fire last week which gutted the submarine killing all 18 several crew members. India is fast tracking many deals to lease , purchase or import submarines to reinforce depleting submarine fleet of Indian navy . Loss of INS Sindhurakshak was a big blow to Indian Navy , not only was it recently upgraded submarine but also one of the youngest ( 16 years) submarine in Naval arsenal .

The request for proposals (RFPs) for the $11.8-bn Project 75-I submarines of the Indian Navy is expected to be issued shortly. But Navy has made some changes and Two submarines would be acquired from a selected foreign shipyard and the remaining four would be built by the state-owned Mazagon Dock and Hindustan Shipyard. Apart from plans to allow private local shipbuilders to participate in this project.

India is also Negotiating with Russia on leasing Second Akula II class 'Nerpa' Nuclear submarine . under Project 75 India will get first Scorpene submarine which will join Indian Navy only in 2015 or later due to four years delays faced in the project . on event of loss of INS Sindhurakshak India is considering leasing two Diesel powered Kilo submarines from Russia , but according to Defence Analysts current Kilo submarines in Russian fleet are not upgraded to latest standard and it is unlikely that Russian Navy will have extra kilo submarines to spare .

According to Naval sources India may ask winner of Project 75-I for leasing of such submarines from their fleet if Russia cannot provide Kilo submarines , Foreign companies, including Rosoboron export's Amur 1650 (Russia), DCNS's Scorpene (France), HDW Type 214 (Germany) and Navantia's S-80 (Spain) were the possible candidates for the P75-I $11.8-billion project. However, officials said the Spanish company has withdrawn its technical specifications due to weight issues with their submarine.

Under Project 75-I Diesel Submarines are going to be a bigger submarine than Scorpène and will be equipped with both tube-launched missiles for land-attack capabilities as well as AIP (air-independent propulsion) for enhanced underwater capability, SLCM BrahMos will also be a standard fitment in this submarines .


India to fast track multiple submarine deals | idrw.org

 

[ersakthivel]

Indian Navy: How Much Blue Water! » Indian Defence Review

 

[Twinblade]

Indian Navy LPD to feature electric propulsion, upbeat on DRDO Fuel Cell AIP
April 11, 2013 by P. Chacko Joseph
Mumbai:
India will feature an electric propulsion for its future LPD (Landing Platform Docks) project and the Navy – DRDO Fuel Cell AIP will be ready for submarine refits, said Indian Navy officials during an SMM India (subsidiary of maritime trade fair SMM Hamburg) hosted event on 4th and 5th April.

Rear Admiral DM Deshpande, VSM, DG Project – 75 (Scorpenes) Naval Head Quarters, who spoke about electric propulsion for future Indian submarines, described the Navy – DRDO fuel cell system, which was progressing. He named 10 companies involved in the AIP project led by L&T at NMRL ( Naval Materials Research Laboratory ) Ambarnath. The ten companies involved in Indian AIP propulsion design include Thermax, IOCL, L&T, Texol, Indian Institute of Petroleum, AKSA, CDAC, Gigitronics, ROLTA and MDL. DRDO units involved in the project are NMRL, CEEFES, NSTL, RCI and NPOL.

The Hydrogen based Indian AIP design has no Carbon Dioxide (unique to French MESMA) emission. The waste products are stored in a separate container in slurry form. Since there are no emissions into the water, there are less chances of the submarine being detected. In addition to upcoming Project 75 (I) submarines, DRDO AIP can also be deployed in existing HDW T-1500 submarines (Shishumar Class) in Indian Navy service.


On submarine indigenisation, Rear Admiral Deshpande said a lot Indian systems will be incorporated in the P-75 (I) submarines, including water cooled propulsion system, switchboards, 415 V NES -607 transformer board, 6.6 kv circuit breaker etc, which have been learnt through the Project 75 project.

Read more: Indian Navy LPD to feature electric propulsion, upbeat on DRDO Fuel Cell AIP
Frontier India - news, Analysis, Opinion
Follow us: @frontierindia on Twitter | frontierindia on Facebook

http://frontierindia.net/indian-navy-ldp-to-feature-electric-propulsion-upbeat-on-drdo-fuel-cell-aip#ixzz2gX3F6PBw

 

[Armand2REP]

India To Require BrahMos Missile for Next Subs

NEW DELHI — Western competitors could face stiffer competition from the Russians in India's forthcoming US $12 billion tender for the purchase of six conventional submarines. The Indian Defence Ministry is requiring that submarines in the competition be capable of mounting the Indo-Russian BrahMos cruise missile.

India's Defence Research and Development Organisation, which is jointly producing the BrahMos with Russia, has persuaded the MoD to incorporate the requirement for the tender, expected to be floated by the end of the year.

India To Require BrahMos Missile for Next Subs | Defense News | defensenews.com

They act like it is a problem for DCNS, but Brahmos fitting was already offered as far back as 2008.

 

[Iceman2012]

Whilst I am all for putting in Indian systems, they cannot come at the extent of such huge delays. It take between 6-7 years to get the submarine after the contract has been signed. We have not even issued an RFP yet so I am guessing even if the RFP comes out next month, we are not looking at any submarine before 2022. Lets first issue the RFP

Singapore just signed a contract for 2 customised U-216 (theirs will be the U208SG).

also, their 2 submarines are costing only EUR 500MILLION/each so why is our P-75I going to cost close to USD 2 Billion/sub (EUR 1.5 Billion) ?????

 

[he-man]

this rfp is the biggest mistake navy will do

1)we have started to master the scorpenes after trying for years

2)if we start making a new sub now,,we will waste an equal amount of time there too

3)solution is to upgrade the scorpenes as far as sensors are concerned and use the mesma aip,or any other for the matter but hull of scorpenes must be the same as we will make them very very fast.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Few things >

1. First know what is the Sub is based on..
2. Why this project started on first place ..
3. Don't ask these same questions ..

this rfp is the biggest mistake navy will do

1)we have started to master the scorpenes after trying for years

2)if we start making a new sub now,,we will waste an equal amount of time there too

3)solution is to upgrade the scorpenes as far as sensors are concerned and use the mesma aip,or any other for the matter but hull of scorpenes must be the same as we will make them very very fast.

 

[he-man]

if enthusiasts like me cannot even critique the defence psu's and govt policies then whats the use??

my comment was on project p-75i and not intended for any person per se!!
i did not offend anyone,did not swear at anyone,used no strong words.

and still i am censored??