Project-75I class SSK Submarines

cloud

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@he-man, Please try to contribute to discussion instead of only being criticizer as it derails the thread from meaningful discussion and turns it into a Youtube commentary box, as someone was discussing yesterday in LCA tejas thread(most of us who follow the thread know where the weakness are and has been discussed in the thread and is being worked upon, even at much slower pace). Thought you may get away for being little bit too nationalistic/excess supporting of Indian products and is totally reasonable. :)
 
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DivineHeretic

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if enthusiasts like me cannot even critique the defence psu's and govt policies then whats the use??

my comment was on project p-75i and not intended for any person per se!!
i did not offend anyone,did not swear at anyone,used no strong words.

and still i am censored??
I'll put it to you the best way I can.

Critiquing is good, and necessary. Whining is not. And while you may claim that a thin difference lies between the two, you have, by going on a long tirade against nearly every decision, proven which side of the fence you belong to.

I agree, atleast partially, to some of your points, but constant whining is a big irritant when you sit down to discuss anything.

But having said all that, I'll admit to one thing, and I believe a lot of us here do too.

The Arihant, if rumours are to be believed, are costing around $2.4 billion to build per vessel. The design, despite the 80MW reactor, some experts have pointed out, could travel at upwards of 25 knots underwater.

As such, if these numbers are indeed validated at the sea trials, it could be worth the time to modify the design to build a new gen of attack nuclear subs. At $2.4 Billion, 6 of these modified Arihant SSNs will cost $14.4 billion, a very affordable figure for a Navy willing to spend $12 billion on 6 SSK.

Edit: I have read of the existence of a SSN project based on the Arihant, but I believe that is a separate project. My idea is to combine the two and go for an all nuclear undersea force, if the Navy can afford it.
 
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Dinesh_Kumar

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The collaboration for 4 x Type-209 boats was necessary - The Navy's Submarine design team was started, new techniques introduced on how to design submarines, shipwrights were trained, MDL started getting the infrastructure and building specialized skills in welding and fabrication, etc. However, many skills were lost due to bad decision making, resulting in no repeat orders for many years. Also, sub building involves specialized skills not immediately obvious- Daewoo could not localise the Type-209 in Korea, despite being a reputed shipbuilder. With Scorpene, apart from the High prices and MDL's confused procurement, i dont understand how our country is being benefited. Slowly, common people like me are beginning to understand that this is not a very good deal. Instead of going in for Type 75-I, with unsure returns, can we please invest time and effort to build our own local sub with skills and infra already paid for? Going in for a new sub right now will ensure that all attention is diverted from Scorpene, and whatever skills we developed for Scorpene will be lost - as has already happened in the past.
 

Zebra

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Indian Navy Wants To Fast-Track Purchase of Russian Subs

Aug. 2, 2014 - 03:42PM |
By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI



NEW DELHI — The Indian Defence Ministry's delay in floating a tender for six conventional submarines appears to be helping Russia, as the Indian Navy is now asking the MoD to buy two Russian-built Amur-class subs to help restock the shrinking force.

The $12 billion global tender would cover the purchase of six conventional submarines with air independent propulsion (AIP) technology under the Indian Navy's Project 75-I.....

Indian Navy Wants To Fast-Track Purchase of Russian Subs | Defense News | defensenews.com
 

Zebra

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^^
Mulla ki daud masjid tak.

Why can't they think for the Soryu Class?
 

Sea Eagle

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^^
Mulla ki daud masjid tak.

Why can't they think for the Soryu Class?
Japan has already started a replacement program for Soryu Class.
So why do you want IN to buy decade old submarines ?
 

Zebra

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Japan has already started a replacement program for Soryu Class.
So why do you want IN to buy decade old submarines ?

Bro, tell me more about it please. It is news for me. I never saw it before.

They commissioned the first one in 2009, with plan of total 10. They got 5 already and still 5 more to come.

That is what I know.

BTW, with which subs they are replacing them?
 

Sea Eagle

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Bro, tell me more about it please. It is news for me. I never saw it before.

They commissioned the first one in 2009, with plan of total 10. They got 5 already and still 5 more to come.

That is what I know.

BTW, with which subs they are replacing them?
The Australians wanted to co develop a new submarine with Japanese that would replace their Collin class subs. Not sure if Japan would replace their Soryu's with them or not but those new submarines will be a modified and a more mordern version of Soryu class submarines.

Another problem with buying Soryu is that its propulsion/AIP is manufactured under license from Kockum which is under the HDW [which is offering us the Type 214]. So Soryu deal is unlikely.
 
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Zebra

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The Australians wanted to co develop a new submarine with Japanese that would replace their Collin class subs. Not sure if Japas would replace their Soryu's with them or not but those new submarines will be a modified and a more mordern version of Soryu class submarines.

Another problem with buying Soryu is that its propulsion/AIP is manufactured under license from Kockum which is under the HDW [which is offering us the Type 214]. So Soryu deal is unlikely.

Kockums was under ThyssenKrupp, but not any more. Now they are under SAAB.
 

Jagdish58

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Indian Navy Wants To Fast-Track Purchase of Russian Subs | Defense News | defensenews.com



NEW DELHI — The Indian Defence Ministry's delay in floating a tender for six conventional submarines appears to be helping Russia, as the Indian Navy is now asking the MoD to buy two Russian-built Amur-class subs to help restock the shrinking force.

The $12 billion global tender would cover the purchase of six conventional submarines with air independent propulsion (AIP) technology under the Indian Navy's Project 75-I.

A high-level team from Rosoboronexport was in New Delhi two weeks ago to negotiate the sale or lease of two Amur-class subs, said a source in MoD who gave no details of the deliberations.

The Indian Navy also plans to build six conventional Scorpene submarines under license by DCNS of France at Mumbai-based Mazagon Docks. The delivery of those submarines has been delayed by more than four years. The first of the six submarines will now be inducted into the Navy by 2016 compared with the original delivery date of 2012.

"The delay in Scorpene delivery as well as the delay in [the 75-I] submarine project has led to extreme depletion of [the] submarine arm," said retired Indian Navy Capt. Shyam Kumar Singh. "The next new submarine will be ready to join the fleet only in 2018. Therefore the earnest need to procure the submarines from Russia."

Russia leased the nuclear submarine Chakra in 1984, the only country to lease a nuclear submarine to India.

The Indian Navy operates seven Russian-made Kilo-class and four German-made SSK submarines, the last of which joined service in the late 1990s.

In the past year, three Kilo-class submarines were unavailable due to accidents and delays by the state-run shipyard at Vizag.

Though the Navy has asked the MoD to negotiate the purchase of two Amur subs, there is a difference of opinion among service officials about whether to buy Russian or Western-built vessels.

One faction favors the Russian-made AIP submarines, finding them more safe and robust while another group, mostly younger, prefers Western submarines based on a better score in electronics, control and sensors.

"Russian submarines are cheaper to maintain as the Indian Navy has invested heavily in creating relevant infrastructure to support the boats," a senior Navy officer said. "Besides, there is adequate training on Russian submarines."

Another officer rebutted: "While the Russian submarines are cheaper to buy initially, their support is expensive and has become an issue with the Indian Navy. While the French and the Western submarines are easier to maintain there are issues of transfer of technology of critical systems."

While the Navy is facing depleting submarine fleet strength, there is uncertainty over the floating of the $12 billion tender under Project 75-I, now delayed by more than four years. The MoD has not given a reason for the delay in floating the tender.

"The project will not be scrapped," Singh said. "However, the initial specifications were drawn sometime in 2006-07. It has already been eight years since then. Even if the tender is floated now, it will take at least 10 years for the first submarine to be built at the fastest and [it will be] outdated. The chances are that the specification may be changed. This could be the reason for delay in floating the formal tender."

The overseas defense shipyards that have shown interest in Project 75-I include DCNS, for its Scorpene with AIP system; HDW of Germany with its Type 214 with Siemens Fuel Cell AIP submarine; Russia with its Amur-class submarine; and Fincantieri of Italy with its S-1000 submarine.

The strength of the Indian Navy submarine fleet has dwindled from a total of 21 vessels in the 1980s to 14. Yet China has more than 60 boats, a point of major concern to the Indian Navy, an official said.
 

Pulkit

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Buying new Subs is a good move but even that will take say another 2-3 years ....
Why don't IN gear up and restore its Subs which are inactive and under repair?
I think INS Sindhukirti is under repair since 2009... what are they doing for last five years?
Or is it true that the poor workmanship of the shipyard has rendered the boat unfixable ,Thats a shame.... Any updates guys....

Which ever Sub we induct Buy must be delivered at priority that should be the condition I dont mind any of the Subs mentioned above...
For Russian Subs we have alot of experience dealing with them so it will be a preffered one.... at this moment....
+
IN should tighten its grip over Scorpene manufacturing to make sure that the deadlines are met....
This delay is costing us alot.....

@Sea Eagle @Casper @Bheeshma
 
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Sea Eagle

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That's fine.
But I like Soryu class. It's better.
S-80 is better than Soryu especially its propulsion system. The Indian navy wants a next generation submarine and S-80 will provide us a platform generation ahead of our neighbours.
 

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