Project-17A Nilgiri-class Frigate Thread

[porky_kicker]

A nice pic of P17A multirole stealth frigate

 

[nongaddarliberal]

8 AshMs is the standard load out across the world for a surface combatant. Look across the USN fleet and all of them have ever since the Cold War era carried no more than 8 Harpoons (with a few exceptions like the reborn Iowa class battleships)

The days of fleet scaled ship to ship warfare are past. In the case of the IN, if facing the PN how many surface combatants can the enemy even put out to sea at any time? 8 Brahmos per vessel is already adequate

Keep in mind we're building up our navy for the PLAN, not the PN.

 

[ladder]

P17A video from IN...........

One heli hanger vs 2 in Shivalik class. Any particular reason?

 

[porky_kicker]

Another one....................

 

[porky_kicker]

One heli hanger vs 2 in Shivalik class. Any particular reason?

No idea............................

 

[rohit b3]

Correct me if im wrong. But this one has a flushed deck?

 

[abingdonboy]

On the whole VERY impressive stuff regarding P17A


+ block construction across multiple sites across India. Massively expedites construction as well as reducing the number of single points of failure. This is exactly who the QE class was built by BAE. Hopefully this is the way all future large IN vessels are constructed

+ multiple yards (GRSE and MDL) again much of the benefits above, need to see a lot more of this kind of foreword thinking. Would’ve been nice if instead of needles Talwar deal they’d just given GSL the contract for 3-4 additional P17As. 10-11 of these beasts would be an awesome capability



I’m only a bit disappointed by the fact that it seems as though the IN has designed the P17A to have only 1 hanger which is a huge hinderance for ASW ops which is a big part of this ship’s role. Traditionally all large vessels of the IN have had 2 hangers even this class’s predecessor- the P17!


Also given the emerging threat environment, 32 SAMS seems on the low side.

 

[LordofLight]

Given our threat perceptions, the 32 MR-SAMS seem inadequate. At least 16 more are needed in the VLS. Also can these be reloaded on sea once all the 32 are fired?

 

[Megalomaniac]

P17A Frigates will have the same no. of weapons as of P17B Destroyer Class with 127mm Rapid reaction guns.

 

[uoftotaku]

Keep in mind we're building up our navy for the PLAN, not the PN.

They have built in ready upgrade-ability into all the recent designs. The major weapons systems like BrahMos are being replaced in the next 10 years when the much more compact NG version comes into service. The current space taken up by 08 BrahMos can house 12-16 BrahMos NG in a new UVLS module. There is also plenty of reserve space and buoyancy built into both the P-15 and P-17 designs to accommodate additional systems. P-17A also has internal space to accommodate additional gen-sets for electric power.

The focus right now is to have hulls on the water.

 

[ladder]

Anyway this debate is of no meaning. The actual names will come out in a short while. Let's wait and see.

https://www.business-standard.com/a...night-on-aircraft-carrier-119091800064_1.html

Excerpts

The seventh and last frigate will get a brand new name: INS Mahendragiri.

 

[Bleh]

Looks like a close hybrid of Talwar class and Kolkata class anyways these Niligiri Class is exponentially superior to the chink frigates pakis are about to get in maybe 2021 because of LRSAM,BrahMos and MFSTAR and it will also have GE Turbines

Pardon my ignorance but what happens after all the 8 Brahmos are fired? Does it carry extras onboard?

After all 8 are fired then PKMKB happens and need for reload becomes irrelevant

No. Very difficult to reload large missiles (fired from vls) at sea. Currently no one does it. Had been tried in the past. USN is again planning for the same.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your...-bring-back-at-sea-missile-reload-capability/

On the whole VERY impressive stuff regarding P17A


+ block construction across multiple sites across India. Massively expedites construction as well as reducing the number of single points of failure. This is exactly who the QE class was built by BAE. Hopefully this is the way all future large IN vessels are constructed

+ multiple yards (GRSE and MDL) again much of the benefits above, need to see a lot more of this kind of foreword thinking. Would’ve been nice if instead of needles Talwar deal they’d just given GSL the contract for 3-4 additional P17As. 10-11 of these beasts would be an awesome capability



I’m only a bit disappointed by the fact that it seems as though the IN has designed the P17A to have only 1 hanger which is a huge hinderance for ASW ops which is a big part of this ship’s role. Traditionally all large vessels of the IN have had 2 hangers even this class’s predecessor- the P17!


Also given the emerging threat environment, 32 SAMS seems on the low side.

Given our threat perceptions, the 32 MR-SAMS seem inadequate. At least 16 more are needed in the VLS. Also can these be reloaded on sea once all the 32 are fired?

P17A Frigates will have the same no. of weapons as of P17B Destroyer Class with 127mm Rapid reaction guns.

VLS shouldn't take up a lot of space. Why not have more universal cells & keep them empty in not required?... You can even have cylinders in those tubes carrying extra fuel (like EFT on fighter jets hardpoints).
PKMKB isn't India's only objective. Against a numerical is superior Chinese fleet, capability to carry more anti-ship/air-defence missiles wouldn help force projection.
This is exactly what the Chinese have been doing, their destroyers can have upto 24 against Kolkata's 16!

Also becoming toothless, sitting ducks after launching a full volley sounds like an ideal recipe to get captured as prizes, if the enemy has even a single armed ship left. Every fleet are accompanied by fuel tankers, can't they also have cargo ships with spare ammunition & reloading equipment?

Idea: @binayak95 @porky_kicker @Indx TechStyle
How feasible it is to have small MissileBoats with half-dozen Brahmos/Akash-NG accompany a fleet (like floating MLRS) being re-supplied by fuel tanker, that will have extra exposed metal surfaces to fake radar signatures of a larger stealth destroyer?? ...Also unmanned pods pretending to be submarines & misguiding enemy serveillance???????????????

 

[vampyrbladez]

Another one....................

View attachment 38595

What will be the replacement for the LW-08 L band radar that was used previously?

 

[ladder]

VLS shouldn't take up a lot of space. Why not have more universal cells & keep them empty in not required?... You can even have cylinders in those tubes carrying extra fuel (like EFT on fighter jets hardpoints).
PKMKB isn't India's only objective. Against a numerical is superior Chinese fleet, capability to carry more anti-ship/air-defence missiles wouldn help force projection.
This is exactly what the Chinese have been doing, their destroyers can have upto 24 against Kolkata's 16!

Also becoming toothless, sitting ducks after launching a full volley sounds like an ideal recipe to get captured as prizes, if the enemy has even a single armed ship left. Every fleet are accompanied by fuel tankers, can't they also have cargo ships with spare ammunition & reloading equipment?

Idea: @binayak95 @porky_kicker @Indx TechStyle
How feasible it is to have small MissileBoats with half-dozen Brahmos/Akash-NG accompany a fleet (like floating MLRS) being re-supplied by fuel tanker, that will have extra exposed metal surfaces to fake radar signatures of a larger stealth destroyer?? ...Also unmanned pods pretending to be submarines & misguiding enemy serveillance???????????????

The concept you are talking is called 'fitted for but not with' generally seen in opvs wherein opvs are fitted with fittings such as wiring, plumbings and other accessories to convert it into a light corvette in case that's needed, within a short time frame. But, to extend it to capital ships is not easy. As they will be primary respondents.

What you are suggesting, seems theoretically possible. But, VLS systems even though empty needs maintenance. What if Barak 8 ER would need a larger VLS canister system (due to larger dia of its booster system). Brahmos NG will definitely need a smaller canister. Similar thing for LA Nirbhay, when available.

As we still now don't have a Universal VLS like some other Navies have standardized, we can't be definitive. Till the time we finalize on a UVLS, flexibility will take a hit. And until then load outs have to be determined by long-term threat perceptions.

And, fuel in canister, in an 'empty' cell is a dangerous idea. EFT can be jettisoned.

Good luck to anyone who wishes to take a 6000 ton ship as prize. It will be a sight, Chinese towing our frigate as prize.

 

[Shashwat]

What will be the replacement for the LW-08 L band radar that was used previously?

Indra Lanza radar.

30 chars.,.,.,.,.

 

[laughingbuddha]

IN should arm the P15B and P17A with the Veter and Stallion anti-sub missiles. I hope they have.

 

[Bleh]

Good luck to anyone who wishes to take a 6000 ton ship as prize. It will be a sight, Chinese towing our frigate as prize.

Thanks for detailed explanation except this i still find very possible;

Captured cruisers & battleships have been taken as prize in World War 1 & 2, no significant naval battles after that. Moreover now ships don't need to be badly damaged with volleys of artillery fire to be captured!

Imagine a serious battle between 10-12 ships of Indian & Chink navies!
They'd prefer to do it where there's less aerial threat present, ideally the naval air-arms engaged elsewhere. Then can load their universal-VLS with even more ASMs instead of SAMs, which ours can't do.

Even if we somehow prevail, after an engagement of intercepting & sinking (both sides will eventually have supersonic SSMs & SAMs that can intercept them) say the Chinks have only 1 ship left with only 2 missiles, while India has 3 ships but no missiles left. What will happen then?... All 3 Indian ships will be forced to surrender to avoid getting sunk with all hands, like defenceless sitting ducks.
Ships now-a-days won't need to be towed. The winners can board the surrendered ships & steer them away, like 18th/19th century again!

.

What do you think of my idea of using missile-boats & unmanned, underwater bots as decoys by faking radar/sonar signatures?

 

[Tanmay]

Cross Posting from Ports thread an old post

There seems to be a good progress with multiple shipyards adopting SHIPLIFT technology.

Chowgule Lavgan Shipyard @ Ratnagiri, Maharashtra
https://www.chowgulelavgan.com/

Never heard about this shipyard before. Apparently it has a 7500 Tonne Shiplift. Does some defence maintenance work too.

 

[LordofLight]

Thanks for detailed explanation except this i still find very possible;

Captured cruisers & battleships have been taken as prize in World War 1 & 2, no significant naval battles after that. Moreover now ships don't need to be badly damaged with volleys of artillery fire to be captured!

Imagine a serious battle between 10-12 ships of Indian & Chink navies!
They'd prefer to do it where there's less aerial threat present, ideally the naval air-arms engaged elsewhere. Then can load their universal-VLS with even more ASMs instead of SAMs, which ours can't do.

Even if we somehow prevail, after an engagement of intercepting & sinking (both sides will eventually have supersonic SSMs & SAMs that can intercept them) say the Chinks have only 1 ship left with only 2 missiles, while India has 3 ships but no missiles left. What will happen then?... All 3 Indian ships will be forced to surrender to avoid getting sunk with all hands, like defenceless sitting ducks.
Ships now-a-days won't need to be towed. The winners can board the surrendered ships & steer them away, like 18th/19th century again!

.

What do you think of my idea of using missile-boats & unmanned, underwater bots as decoys by faking radar/sonar signatures?

But in such a scenario, won’t the ships use their main guns like they did in the world wars? The missiles have been depleted, not the main gun or even the ciws. It won’t be so easy to just capture modern naval ships.

 

[uoftotaku]

But in such a scenario, won’t the ships use their main guns like they did in the world wars? The missiles have been depleted, not the main gun or even the ciws. It won’t be so easy to just capture modern naval ships.

Not to mention the 200 odd armed and angry crew members on board